Posted by shoe3 on 5/8/2019 11:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/8/2019 7:25:00 AM (view original):
Most importantly they need low PErimeter. Then it’s a combo of speed, bh, lp, and ath. Most guards have good speed and bh so those kinda take care of themselves, above average ath and some LP (30 is good , 50 is great) go a long way.

if you have perimeter it helps you score but it will increase the likelihood of jump shots.

For the record, this is the correct answer.

LP and perimeter aren’t just describing ability, they are also referring to tendency. A guard with 60/25 LP/Per will be a good candidate for a “slasher” type, especially with good ath and FT to draw fouls and rack up easy points from the line. A guard with 25/60 LP/Per will settle for a lot of mid range jumpshots, and will not get to the line as often.

Interesting stuff, thanks guys.

How players score is the least understood topic in the game. The basic tenets are widely understood but the smaller pieces are just estimates and guesses by many of us. Knowing how to manage the last 10% of the formula is what makes good coaches elite.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/8/2019 12:36:00 PM (view original):
How players score is the least understood topic in the game. The basic tenets are widely understood but the smaller pieces are just estimates and guesses by many of us. Knowing how to manage the last 10% of the formula is what makes good coaches elite.

For this one, you could comb through pbp and document which type of shot each player took and then correlate it with their ratings. Time consuming but you could do it.

you don't actually need super off-balance lp/per in your slasher type guards. 3 point shooting is by far the most efficient mode of scoring in this game, so that is the goal for most guards - you can have really efficient 2 point shooting guards, particularly in fb and motion - but they are almost never as efficient as 3 point shooting guards. i know thats not the question, but don't want newer folks thinking slasher guards are a good substitute for 3 point shooters.

for the slasher guards, ath/spd are very important - both increase the rate of fouls being drawn. the ideal guy for d1 would be like 90 ath/spd and 50 lp/per and strong FT, set to -2 on 3s. you can basically have up to about 50 per before it messes up your rate of drawing fouls. a guard like the above will draw fouls at a MUCH higher rate than a big, which is why teams who actually get their 2 and 3 point scoring all from their guards/sfs are so dominant. IQ is also important. the LP is not relevant to drawing fouls but will help your FG% which you want to be around 50% against strong competition and 55% against weak competition. the PER is relevant to drawing fouls in the sense that having too much will hurt your getting fouled rate, but its also relevant to FG% which is why you ideally want 40-50 in both. for d1. translate to lower divisions as appropriate, but basically the quality of competition has little impact on if your guard takes 2s or 3s, so like, i would imagine a great slasher in d3 (having not looked at a d3 player for years) to be something like 70 ath/spd and still as close as you can get to 40-50 lp/per.

Posted by shoe3 on 5/8/2019 11:48:00 AM (view original):
Oh look, another thread where someone asks for help or advice, getting derailed into a toxic heap of bitterness. I wonder why this keeps happening, I thought MikeT23 was supposed to be the problem.

Benis and mully, double shocker.

Thanks, gillispie and shoe, for the info.

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/8/2019 12:36:00 PM (view original):
How players score is the least understood topic in the game. The basic tenets are widely understood but the smaller pieces are just estimates and guesses by many of us. Knowing how to manage the last 10% of the formula is what makes good coaches elite.

For this one, you could comb through pbp and document which type of shot each player took and then correlate it with their ratings. Time consuming but you could do it.

i'm not sure one could accurately do this regardless of time spent, because of how much of the PBP is window dressing. maybe though?

find Rod Strickland

Posted by gillispie1 on 5/8/2019 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/8/2019 12:36:00 PM (view original):
How players score is the least understood topic in the game. The basic tenets are widely understood but the smaller pieces are just estimates and guesses by many of us. Knowing how to manage the last 10% of the formula is what makes good coaches elite.

For this one, you could comb through pbp and document which type of shot each player took and then correlate it with their ratings. Time consuming but you could do it.

i'm not sure one could accurately do this regardless of time spent, because of how much of the PBP is window dressing. maybe though?

I thought the type of shot (layup, mid range jumper, 3pt) was accurate but like dunk and layup were basically window dressing.

Cause you get a points in the paint from the box score so it seems like that number needs to match up with what the pbp says right?

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 1:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 5/8/2019 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/8/2019 12:36:00 PM (view original):
How players score is the least understood topic in the game. The basic tenets are widely understood but the smaller pieces are just estimates and guesses by many of us. Knowing how to manage the last 10% of the formula is what makes good coaches elite.

For this one, you could comb through pbp and document which type of shot each player took and then correlate it with their ratings. Time consuming but you could do it.

i'm not sure one could accurately do this regardless of time spent, because of how much of the PBP is window dressing. maybe though?

I thought the type of shot (layup, mid range jumper, 3pt) was accurate but like dunk and layup were basically window dressing.

Cause you get a points in the paint from the box score so it seems like that number needs to match up with what the pbp says right?

shots in HD are based off of # of feet from the basket. i do believe there is some correlation between # of feet from the basket, and the type of shot shown in the pbp, in most cases. however, trying to correlate rate of fouls drawn, which would correlate to # of feet from the basket (along with a whole bunch of other stuff like stats of the offensive and defensive players), to the type of shot shown in the pbp, would be damn near impossible - even just from a statistical standpoint. and that is assuming the pbp is always accurate in showing the type of shot, but i'm not convinced that is the case either. there are too many times where the logic goes like 'simulate to get an outcome, then make up a window dressing for the pbp that is logically consistent' like it does for assists (well, i guess the assist outcome itself is randomly selected after the shot is made, so that may be a poor example).

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 11:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 5/8/2019 10:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 9:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Tiptop00 on 5/8/2019 7:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 5/8/2019 6:51:00 AM (view original):
Well technically you asked TWO questions

I never asked anything about when recruiting starts. People wonder why we can’t get new people when we have annoying guys like this who just won’t help out on a simple question.

I'm pretty sure this is definitely NOT the reason new people don't stick around to play HD.

Doesn't help.

The forums are so tame and boring now. It's inconsequential. If mikeT didn't single handily ruin the forums and HD, nothing will.

Although on the other hand, the populations are so pathetic that even losing one person is like 1% of the population of a world.

Live look at Benis

Posted by mbriese on 5/8/2019 2:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 11:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 5/8/2019 10:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 9:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Tiptop00 on 5/8/2019 7:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 5/8/2019 6:51:00 AM (view original):
Well technically you asked TWO questions

I never asked anything about when recruiting starts. People wonder why we can’t get new people when we have annoying guys like this who just won’t help out on a simple question.

I'm pretty sure this is definitely NOT the reason new people don't stick around to play HD.

Doesn't help.

The forums are so tame and boring now. It's inconsequential. If mikeT didn't single handily ruin the forums and HD, nothing will.

Although on the other hand, the populations are so pathetic that even losing one person is like 1% of the population of a world.

Live look at Benis

Ha, it's not even the right hair color. Nice try!

Posted by gillispie1 on 5/8/2019 1:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 1:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 5/8/2019 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/8/2019 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/8/2019 12:36:00 PM (view original):
How players score is the least understood topic in the game. The basic tenets are widely understood but the smaller pieces are just estimates and guesses by many of us. Knowing how to manage the last 10% of the formula is what makes good coaches elite.

For this one, you could comb through pbp and document which type of shot each player took and then correlate it with their ratings. Time consuming but you could do it.

i'm not sure one could accurately do this regardless of time spent, because of how much of the PBP is window dressing. maybe though?

I thought the type of shot (layup, mid range jumper, 3pt) was accurate but like dunk and layup were basically window dressing.

Cause you get a points in the paint from the box score so it seems like that number needs to match up with what the pbp says right?

shots in HD are based off of # of feet from the basket. i do believe there is some correlation between # of feet from the basket, and the type of shot shown in the pbp, in most cases. however, trying to correlate rate of fouls drawn, which would correlate to # of feet from the basket (along with a whole bunch of other stuff like stats of the offensive and defensive players), to the type of shot shown in the pbp, would be damn near impossible - even just from a statistical standpoint. and that is assuming the pbp is always accurate in showing the type of shot, but i'm not convinced that is the case either. there are too many times where the logic goes like 'simulate to get an outcome, then make up a window dressing for the pbp that is logically consistent' like it does for assists (well, i guess the assist outcome itself is randomly selected after the shot is made, so that may be a poor example).

Maybe this isn't what you mean.. but just looking at made shots for a few of my games, I broke out if they were close or mid range shots. Close shots are counted as PIP in the box score. The math checks out for these few games so the PBP makes sense.

So if you just focused on what is said in pbp "driving attempt in paint, shot near basket" etc, you could look at the type of shots a player is taking to determine if they're getting in to the paint (like a slasher) or are taking more jumpers/mid range shots. Based upon what I'm looking again (again, it's just for a few games), it seems like 80-90% of 2 pointers are in the paint or very close to the basket.

I doubt the engine is sophisticated enough to know the difference between a 12 foot jumper and a 14 foot jumper.

I've always assumed there are 5 or 6 categories a shot can fall into (dunk / bunny, paint, mid-range, 3, desperation, etc) and the PBP applies window dressing from there.

Posted by georgerollin on 5/8/2019 11:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 5/8/2019 6:27:00 AM (view original):
Check his license to see if he has any restrictions or if its expired.

You can also contact the insurance company to see if he has been in any recent accidents.

oh look another douchebag what a shocker

George = MikeT's illegitimate daughter....with anger management issues...and uncontrollable acne.