when do players quit over promises, compared to the world schedule?

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/2/2019 12:58:00 PM (view original):
when do players quit over promises, compared to the world schedule?

Players will transfer off teams immediately after the NCG has been played. However, unlike HD 2.0, there are no news announcements indicating players leaving their teams (they do disappear immediately off the teams rosters however). In HD 3.0, these transfer players have to be "discovered" via scouting effort after they've transferred (if they do contact you via mail, you will be able to see them, otherwise you have to do some type of scouting in order to get them to level 1). After that, if they played in a game from their own team, you can eventually see their old rating via their old player card but to see any potentials you need to scout them further.

awesome thanks! two follow ups - do promises matter in d3? and do they work the same in d1, d2, and d3 or is d3 more forgiving?

So what percent of minutes/starts promised do we have to meet to keep them from leaving? I have one player I promised a start to. He got angry after game 11, when he had started 8/11. He has now started 21/24 (87.5%) and his WE hasn't bounced back up yet.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/GameLog.aspx?tid=13289&pid=4323780

Posted by vegaskevin on 9/10/2019 12:58:00 PM (view original):
So what percent of minutes/starts promised do we have to meet to keep them from leaving? I have one player I promised a start to. He got angry after game 11, when he had started 8/11. He has now started 21/24 (87.5%) and his WE hasn't bounced back up yet.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/GameLog.aspx?tid=13289&pid=4323780

Did you promise him 25 minutes? If so, you need to give him as many as possible through the end of the conference tourney to have a shot at keeping him. With a WE drop that big, he might be a lost cause. He’s p!$$ed.

Most (but not all) guys are ok if you stay above 80% of your promises. Starting 80% of the games, playing 80% of the promised minutes. (It might be 85%, depending on who you ask. As far as I know this is a forum “fact” that is really more of a rule of thumb, because it is not a set and dried rule, it varies by player/team). Benching him 3 times in non-conference was likely your big mistake.

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/6/2019 10:33:00 PM (view original):
awesome thanks! two follow ups - do promises matter in d3? and do they work the same in d1, d2, and d3 or is d3 more forgiving?

Yes and yes, they are basically the same. Players with promises at D3 still expect you to live up to it, and will consider transferring if you don’t.

Posted by shoe3 on 9/10/2019 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by vegaskevin on 9/10/2019 12:58:00 PM (view original):
So what percent of minutes/starts promised do we have to meet to keep them from leaving? I have one player I promised a start to. He got angry after game 11, when he had started 8/11. He has now started 21/24 (87.5%) and his WE hasn't bounced back up yet.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/GameLog.aspx?tid=13289&pid=4323780

Did you promise him 25 minutes? If so, you need to give him as many as possible through the end of the conference tourney to have a shot at keeping him. With a WE drop that big, he might be a lost cause. He’s p!$$ed.

Most (but not all) guys are ok if you stay above 80% of your promises. Starting 80% of the games, playing 80% of the promised minutes. (It might be 85%, depending on who you ask. As far as I know this is a forum “fact” that is really more of a rule of thumb, because it is not a set and dried rule, it varies by player/team). Benching him 3 times in non-conference was likely your big mistake.

80% was more of a fact, even though it was still a forum fact and was a simplification - but then 'they' changed it and no longer is 80% enough to guarantee safety for all recruits. basically in the olden days you were guaranteed OK with 80% but could sometimes get by with less. now i think that number varies by player but is up to 90%, although im not positive about that by any means.

Posted by shoe3 on 9/10/2019 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by vegaskevin on 9/10/2019 12:58:00 PM (view original):
So what percent of minutes/starts promised do we have to meet to keep them from leaving? I have one player I promised a start to. He got angry after game 11, when he had started 8/11. He has now started 21/24 (87.5%) and his WE hasn't bounced back up yet.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/GameLog.aspx?tid=13289&pid=4323780

Did you promise him 25 minutes? If so, you need to give him as many as possible through the end of the conference tourney to have a shot at keeping him. With a WE drop that big, he might be a lost cause. He’s p!$$ed.

Most (but not all) guys are ok if you stay above 80% of your promises. Starting 80% of the games, playing 80% of the promised minutes. (It might be 85%, depending on who you ask. As far as I know this is a forum “fact” that is really more of a rule of thumb, because it is not a set and dried rule, it varies by player/team). Benching him 3 times in non-conference was likely your big mistake.

He complained about not starting.

21/24 games right now. He will at least get to 25/28 before the season is over, assuming we go 1 and out in conference tourney and 1 and out in big dance, but early exits in both are unlikely (should at least win a game or two in conference tourney). He should be over 90 percent in starts before season is over.

I kept my 20 minute promise with him.

NT or PT games don't count towards or against your promises, just fyi.

Posted by vegaskevin on 9/10/2019 7:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 9/10/2019 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by vegaskevin on 9/10/2019 12:58:00 PM (view original):
So what percent of minutes/starts promised do we have to meet to keep them from leaving? I have one player I promised a start to. He got angry after game 11, when he had started 8/11. He has now started 21/24 (87.5%) and his WE hasn't bounced back up yet.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/GameLog.aspx?tid=13289&pid=4323780

Did you promise him 25 minutes? If so, you need to give him as many as possible through the end of the conference tourney to have a shot at keeping him. With a WE drop that big, he might be a lost cause. He’s p!$$ed.

Most (but not all) guys are ok if you stay above 80% of your promises. Starting 80% of the games, playing 80% of the promised minutes. (It might be 85%, depending on who you ask. As far as I know this is a forum “fact” that is really more of a rule of thumb, because it is not a set and dried rule, it varies by player/team). Benching him 3 times in non-conference was likely your big mistake.

He complained about not starting.

21/24 games right now. He will at least get to 25/28 before the season is over, assuming we go 1 and out in conference tourney and 1 and out in big dance, but early exits in both are unlikely (should at least win a game or two in conference tourney). He should be over 90 percent in starts before season is over.

I kept my 20 minute promise with him.

i think i can give a pretty informative run down of how this works, im fairly confident in most of it -

1 - there are 'recruit check-in events' if you will, that happen periodically, where a recruit checks in on their promise and evaluates if they are happy or not. im not sure if there are levels of unhappy, like ok, somewhat unhappy, super ****** - it very well may be binary, happy or not.
2 - if the recruit is unhappy during a check-in, they will complain.
3 - a recruit complains if you don't meet some threshold which i believe is 80-90% and seems random by recruit. i think this is true for both promises (start / minutes) but i wouldn't swear to it.
4 - there is a period late in the season, like in the post season, where recruits will check-in - but they appear not to complain at this point *if they haven't previously*. however, you can satisfy them at this point (it might be the last game that counts for practice which i think is after 2/4 CT games). there may also be a period like, at the end of the season (during or after NT), where you can recover, but can't be penalized.
5 - basically, if a recruit complains, if you then meet a promise the rest of the way, i do not believe they can quit. example: you forget to do your team setup or part of it, and your new recruit isn't even on the depth chart! after 8 games, he complains he hasn't started yet or played a minute. with promised start and 25m, you may think you are screwed, that there is no way to catch up to the 80-90% they need. however, if for the rest of the season, you meet your promise - 25m per game, and starting every game - i do not think he can quit. his WE may not totally recover - because on the year, you didn't meet the 80-90% of what he wanted on the season, but because you 100% met the promise soon as he complained, you are good. WIS does this (admin talked about it) in case someone forgets or makes a mistake, like they think they started him but messed up, to not have an honest mistake cause so much damage. you might even just be able to meet the 80-90% threshold for the period after the 1st complaint. the recruit can complain a 2nd time, and he probably would in this example scenario - because by the 2nd check-in event, you are still WAY under the 80-90% (you've probably started 50% of the time by now). but he still won't quit later.
6 - if you end the year under that 80-90% threshold but where the recruit can't quit, then you may not recover all your work ethic. usually this is a modest loss.
7 - there is definitely some circumstance, im not totally sure what, where you sort of meet and sort of screw up your promises, and the guy barely doesn't quit but he also tanks WE wise.

Posted by hawkfan1991 on 9/10/2019 7:33:00 PM (view original):
NT or PT games don't count towards or against your promises, just fyi.

this is definitely true if you had been meeting your promises the whole way, but may not be true if you haven't been meeting your promises. you may very well be able to 'save' a recruit who you broke promises on during the regular season, if you bring the averages up enough in the post season.

“basically, if a recruit complains, if you then meet a promise the rest of the way, i do not believe they can quit.”

Like the 80% “rule” being moved to “rule of thumb”, I don’t think this is true now. People have reported losing guys the way you’ve described as a situation where they can’t leave. I’ve been in conference with a guy (I think wvufan) who screwed up, forgot to start the guy until he received a complaint, started the guy the rest of the year, including tournament, and (I think, IIRC) gave him >100% promised minutes. The kid left.

What I haven’t seen or heard of yet is a guy who leaves without complaining, or who leaves after giving the happy email. From what I understand, the only way you’re “safe” with promises is when you’ve never heard him complain.

Posted by shoe3 on 9/11/2019 8:59:00 AM (view original):
“basically, if a recruit complains, if you then meet a promise the rest of the way, i do not believe they can quit.”

Like the 80% “rule” being moved to “rule of thumb”, I don’t think this is true now. People have reported losing guys the way you’ve described as a situation where they can’t leave. I’ve been in conference with a guy (I think wvufan) who screwed up, forgot to start the guy until he received a complaint, started the guy the rest of the year, including tournament, and (I think, IIRC) gave him >100% promised minutes. The kid left.

What I haven’t seen or heard of yet is a guy who leaves without complaining, or who leaves after giving the happy email. From what I understand, the only way you’re “safe” with promises is when you’ve never heard him complain.

its very possible you are right, and that rule was also changed along with the 80%.

i do seem to recall there was some buginess around this - i believe at least two instances occurred (its hard to really recall this stuff from half a decade or more ago), where users basically met promises entirely after the user quit, and then those users were re-instated. its possible that bug still exists and that people just aren't ticketing on it anymore.

so either way - i could definitely see that being true.

i will share an experiment i did recently (although certainly not all players and situations are created equally, so im definitely not suggesting this experiment proves anything! just one data point). i had a 28 game schedule in d3, and i didnt start both guys (25m+start) promises from the beginning, until 2 games after their complaint. so one guy played 16/28 games and one played 18/28 and neither were close to the 80% bar on minutes or on starts, by the season end. neither quit. both had moderate work ethic loss (8 or 9 each i think out of 40s or so). this is from within the past 2 months. i am doing the same experiment on 4 or 5 players this season, well similar, i plan to tweak it a bit.

anyway, that said, i have heard stories of folks meeting the standards i outlined above, and in a couple cases, investigated and found they were mistaken or their math was slightly off. however, i am also pretty confident there have been users who did have issues, which is those tickets i was referring to. so i guess two things, i wouldn't be surprised if the wvufan situation was the game not working as intended, or that there was a mistake in the analysis of the situation. these situations seem simple, but are not always that way - for example, most folks believe CT games don't count for promises, which is not always true (its true if you haven't had a complaint yet, but not true if you have).

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23 out of 26 starts, including last 16 in a row and still angry. WE is 15 points down.

Posted by vegaskevin on 9/11/2019 2:12:00 PM (view original):
Hoops Dynasty – College Basketball Sim Games - James Schulman - Game Log - Knight - Hoops Dynasty Basketball | WhatIfSports

23 out of 26 starts, including last 16 in a row and still angry. WE is 15 points down.

what is the minutes promise?

edit: also, what is your message history with him re: complaints/promises etc?