Say team I'm recruiting against has a human coach for first recruiting period and they drop 10 HVs. Sim is now in charge of that team for second recruiting period, due to the human coach changing schools Are they going to drop the other 10 HVs on that recruit?

My understanding is Sim AI doesn’t do visits or offer promises. They do keep effort credit from the previous coach though, unlike when a human takes over and has to take an effort reduction.

Posted by shoe3 on 10/7/2019 9:35:00 AM (view original):
My understanding is Sim AI doesn’t do visits or offer promises. They do keep effort credit from the previous coach though, unlike when a human takes over and has to take an effort reduction.

I didn't think they did, but wasn't 100% or even 75% sure. Most of the time in recruiting battles with SIM, I try to put them at VL quickly, therefore thought there was a chance they did offer promises or HVs when there is a closely contested battle. Thank you.

I’m 100% sure they don’t offer promises (this was explicitly said during beta). I’m about 99% sure they don’t do visits. I look at the recruiting history of guys Sim was going after (or signed) in the first session when taking over every team, and it is always limited to AP and scholarship.

Posted by shoe3 on 10/7/2019 10:40:00 AM (view original):
I’m 100% sure they don’t offer promises (this was explicitly said during beta). I’m about 99% sure they don’t do visits. I look at the recruiting history of guys Sim was going after (or signed) in the first session when taking over every team, and it is always limited to AP and scholarship.

I am pretty sure they make HV's. I've seen sims make comebacks from being knocked down that couldn't be made from just AP.

Im pretty sure trentonjoe is correct on this. I think i remember a sim i took over for having used hvs.

Posted by Adjacent1 on 10/7/2019 4:45:00 PM (view original):
Im pretty sure trentonjoe is correct on this. I think i remember a sim i took over for having used hvs.

If someone has an example, I’d love to see it. I’ve looked in the recruiting history of dozens of players on teams I’ve taken over for, and never seen one. It’s always limited to a consistent AP, usually between 21 and 27. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, though.

I’ve seen late comebacks too, of course, but nothing I’d consider unexplainable by AP use. It’s usually when a lower division (D2-3) human is battling a D1 sim. The D1 sim attention is almost always quite a bit more powerful than the lower division attention, and can cover a lot of ground quickly, especially if the human thinks they’ve got the recruit in hand, and goes elsewhere with attention.

I’m open to examples, though.

This is the only example I can offer. With my A+ North Carolina team I was the only school on a recruit for a few cycles before a few Sims schools jumped on. The recruit had four preferences and I was “very good“ on all four. All I had offered was a scholarship and was piling up attention points. The last cycle before session one ended two of the sim teams went from “very low“ to “moderate.“ It was the first time I had ever seen a SIM go from “very low” to “moderate” against me.

As a follow-up to the example I listed above, the Sim school was a B prestige and never offered a scholarship. I gotta believe they had some effort, like a home or campus visit, in order to get to moderate effort against me.

Posted by darnoc29099 on 10/7/2019 6:52:00 PM (view original):
This is the only example I can offer. With my A+ North Carolina team I was the only school on a recruit for a few cycles before a few Sims schools jumped on. The recruit had four preferences and I was “very good“ on all four. All I had offered was a scholarship and was piling up attention points. The last cycle before session one ended two of the sim teams went from “very low“ to “moderate.“ It was the first time I had ever seen a SIM go from “very low” to “moderate” against me.

Do you remember how many AP you piled up after the scholarship offer? Were you pumping 20+ per cycle, or had you dropped down to single digits or lower?

Posted by shoe3 on 10/7/2019 6:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by darnoc29099 on 10/7/2019 6:52:00 PM (view original):
This is the only example I can offer. With my A+ North Carolina team I was the only school on a recruit for a few cycles before a few Sims schools jumped on. The recruit had four preferences and I was “very good“ on all four. All I had offered was a scholarship and was piling up attention points. The last cycle before session one ended two of the sim teams went from “very low“ to “moderate.“ It was the first time I had ever seen a SIM go from “very low” to “moderate” against me.

Do you remember how many AP you piled up after the scholarship offer? Were you pumping 20+ per cycle, or had you dropped down to single digits or lower?

I cut back to single digits.

I’ll give a second data point as well about sim recruiting and this happened last season in Knight. I was a D2 school and had pushed a D1 sim down to very low in RS1 (I was moderate). Was still putting in about 25-30 APs per cycle with a favorable preference profile. I went to bed before the 10pm cycle ran and woke up after the 4am cycle (so I missed two cycles) to see the recruit had signed with the D1 sim school I had just pushed to very low. Back to back recruiting cycles for me now where sims seem to be recruiting a little more aggressively. I’m not saying anything has changed but I’m no longer assuming once a sim is down to “very low” they are done pursuing the recruit.

Sims definitely do visits. At least from my style of play. As a D2 A+ school, I make a living off pushing down D1 sims. When doing that, I'll begin with promises. If the promises get me to moderate (my RS1 peak) AND bump sim down a notch (say, to high), lets say I add 3 visits next cycle. That might only bump sim to low when it processes.

If I don't add more visits, and use only AP the next cycle, the sim will jump back up in one cycle. As far up as very high again, depending on the situation. 27ish AP from a D prestige, D1 sim wouldn't make them jump 4 levels. Not against an A+ D2 school that has visits and promises offered. That would be ridiculous in my opinion. I've estimated that when you fight sims from D2, they do about 2-3 HV each cycle during pursuit. And that continues until either A) you run out of money or stop pursuit. Or B) you push them to very low.

Add on..... some will say that if you push sim to just low, they will quit. I've learned a LOT about this situation lately..... in some cases it will "appear" that sim is dead at low. But they aren't. Its more of a "pause". While targeting a sim led PG one season I pushed sim down to low and wasnt willing to spend anymore on the player. I expected the sim to rise back to high next cycle, but they didn't. But while snooping around, I noticed the sim that was involved with my player, was also very high on another PG. So I think the sim will prioritize their situation, ONCE THEY ARE PUSHED DOWN TO LOW.

In my case, the sim team was Umass. And they held at low for many cycles without me adding any effort at all. Then Umass won the roll for the OTHER PG they were pursuing. At that point, Umass was out of the running for my PG. Had UMass lost that other battle, they likely would've switched back to my target and picked up the pursuit, since I never pushed them to very low.

Point is, I've found out how other things can factor in a battle between you and a sim. It's not always just about what you're doing. It also involves what sim is doing elsewhere. And there's things you do not see, that may lead you to believe that you're safe when you're really not. Always push sim to very low if you want the player!

sims don’t do home or campus visits. How they recruit is different than humans. You can’t draw a parallel. This is per seble from a few years ago.

“If I don't add more visits, and use only AP the next cycle, the sim will jump back up in one cycle. As far up as very high again, depending on the situation. 27ish AP from a D prestige, D1 sim wouldn't make them jump 4 levels. Not against an A+ D2 school that has visits and promises offered. That would be ridiculous in my opinion.”

Not so ridiculous, really. Remember, when you’re moderate in the first session (as D2) and the D1 sim is high or even very high, they are not necessarily in the effort credit lead (definitely not in the lead if they’re just high). They are just in range. They haven’t leap frogged over you, you’re just seeing the power of D1 attention, and the effect of the red light. I think folks tend to underestimate how much more valuable a D1 AP is than a D2. It’s significant, especially if the preference profile is positive. Early in the battle, 27 AP could absolutely put a D1 team back in range against your 3 visits and promises, if some other conditions are right. Not a stretch at all, IMO.

Posted by darnoc29099 on 10/7/2019 7:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 10/7/2019 6:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by darnoc29099 on 10/7/2019 6:52:00 PM (view original):
This is the only example I can offer. With my A+ North Carolina team I was the only school on a recruit for a few cycles before a few Sims schools jumped on. The recruit had four preferences and I was “very good“ on all four. All I had offered was a scholarship and was piling up attention points. The last cycle before session one ended two of the sim teams went from “very low“ to “moderate.“ It was the first time I had ever seen a SIM go from “very low” to “moderate” against me.

Do you remember how many AP you piled up after the scholarship offer? Were you pumping 20+ per cycle, or had you dropped down to single digits or lower?

I cut back to single digits.

I’ll give a second data point as well about sim recruiting and this happened last season in Knight. I was a D2 school and had pushed a D1 sim down to very low in RS1 (I was moderate). Was still putting in about 25-30 APs per cycle with a favorable preference profile. I went to bed before the 10pm cycle ran and woke up after the 4am cycle (so I missed two cycles) to see the recruit had signed with the D1 sim school I had just pushed to very low. Back to back recruiting cycles for me now where sims seem to be recruiting a little more aggressively. I’m not saying anything has changed but I’m no longer assuming once a sim is down to “very low” they are done pursuing the recruit.

This is interesting, and I have sometimes wondered if maybe it’s been ramped up just a tad.

I have noticed that significantly cutting back AP as a D2 or D3 can sometimes “attract flies”. This is why I titrate down, instead of cut way back; I’ll go from 30 to 20 to 15 to 10, rather than straight from 30/cycle to 10/cycle, when I’ve got the sim down to very low. I do think doggg is right on in one aspect, when he talks about the sim sort of sizing up the battle; I think the advantage sims are given is that they see what we’re doing. So it sees when we’ve abandoned the battle, and if it knows it can get back in range with 20-something AP/cycle in x number of cycles before signing, it will go for it. I think this is probably true regardless of how far down you get it; so I think the whole “knock it to very low” is good rule of thumb, but is not a guarantee that it will stay dead if you leave an opening.