Posted by d_rock97 on 10/9/2019 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wdfox on 10/9/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
Ha ha ha. " Are you af..... to play him? "
It is a game. Get a life man.

Back to the point. I am surprised that so many HOF condone cheating.

Here are the WIS guidelines.

"Cheating

All owners must play by the rules and requirements set forth by each game on our site. If an owner discovers a loophole, a way to cheat, or any other method of giving himself an unfair advantage, WhatIfSports reserves the right to take the necessary steps to correct the issue at any time without prior notification. Refunds or roster changes will not be given to any owner in this situation."

"Intentionally throwing a game to ensure another team improves its chances in the standings or playoff seeding."


So it is OK if I send my top AAA players to another player in one league and he can do the same in another? How about trading 200k scrubs for AAA players? If I have a team already in the playoffs and I throw a series to help out another team to get in?

It is a game. That someone would be so childish as to feel a need to cheat is sad.

Why did you make a thread asking this question, if you already had your answer in your head? Did you just want confirmation?

No. I wanted to see what other people thought and if it was common to do.

I remembered from another incident when a couple of players were trading AAA for 200k players that there were guidelines on WIS so I looked them up yesterday to see what they were.

Considering how upset these HOF are. It must be far more common than I thought to throw a series. If those are your ethical standards, so be it.

But, I would like to see a definitive call on whether it is cheating or not.

Who's upset?

Posted by skunk206 on 10/9/2019 2:50:00 PM (view original):
Who's upset?

Us. I think?

Also:

If an owner discovers a loophole, a way to cheat, or any other method of giving himself an unfair advantage, WhatIfSports reserves the right to take the necessary steps to correct the issue at any time without prior notification.

WIS has been aware of this "loophole" (owners with multiple teams in a TOC) for many years now. So far they've taken zero necessary steps to correct this issue, which leads me to believe they might not consider it an issue at all. As most owners don't, either.

Posted by contrarian23 on 10/7/2019 12:55:00 PM (view original):
I have no issue with it.

WIS could (and should, in my opinion) arrange it so that an owner doesn't have 2 teams in the same bracket. Until they do, this situation will occasionally arise. One of his teams was going to advance to play yours - how he gets there is up to him.

This would be the simplest way to handle this, if WIS wanted to do anything. Make sure an owner has a maximum of two teams in a TOC, and make sure they're in opposite brackets so they can't face each other any earlier than the Final.

The only drawback I can see is a handful of very successful owners who run a boatload of teams might have to wait a while, maybe even a long while, to have their TOCs fill if all their teams are separated.

I'm fine with Admin changing it in this way, or doing nothing. I guess I'd prefer the former, but I'm okay with it either way.

Posted by crazystengel on 10/9/2019 3:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by skunk206 on 10/9/2019 2:50:00 PM (view original):
Who's upset?

Us. I think?

Also:

If an owner discovers a loophole, a way to cheat, or any other method of giving himself an unfair advantage, WhatIfSports reserves the right to take the necessary steps to correct the issue at any time without prior notification.

WIS has been aware of this "loophole" (owners with multiple teams in a TOC) for many years now. So far they've taken zero necessary steps to correct this issue, which leads me to believe they might not consider it an issue at all. As most owners don't, either.

After this came up, I spoke with Admin. Seems like they do consider it something wrong:

"While I understand that's a strange situation, we still don't want anyone losing games intentionally. Please refrain from doing that."

Or their 2 employees are lazy as ****

Ha!

Another way to look at it is when you're as understaffed as they are, the work needs to be prioritized. Sort of like on M*A*S*H when the choppers arrive and it's triage time. "Oh, good lord. Hawkeye, over here!" etc. For the most part tickets get handled promptly, new players are introduced to the database quickly (2018 players being the one exception), and games sim three times a day without a hitch.

Not bad for two lazy employees!

Posted by ozomatli on 10/9/2019 3:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by crazystengel on 10/9/2019 3:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by skunk206 on 10/9/2019 2:50:00 PM (view original):
Who's upset?

Us. I think?

Also:

If an owner discovers a loophole, a way to cheat, or any other method of giving himself an unfair advantage, WhatIfSports reserves the right to take the necessary steps to correct the issue at any time without prior notification.

WIS has been aware of this "loophole" (owners with multiple teams in a TOC) for many years now. So far they've taken zero necessary steps to correct this issue, which leads me to believe they might not consider it an issue at all. As most owners don't, either.

After this came up, I spoke with Admin. Seems like they do consider it something wrong:

"While I understand that's a strange situation, we still don't want anyone losing games intentionally. Please refrain from doing that."

In that case, they should implement the change contrarian suggested. Because to me (and I imagine to many of us), the "tanking to yourself" strategy is a sort of compensation to the owner who has to deal with having one team automatically knocked out before the round even begins.

I'd agree with that but, to your own point, they need to ruthlessly prioritize what to work on given their headcount constraints. I deal with this kind of stuff all the time and it's hard but you've gotta do it when the amount of work either needed or asked for exceeds the human-capacity you've got on your team. I don't blame them for taking the stance they have since this such an infrequent thing

People arguing seem to be ignoring the fact that, as crazystengel said, it's a detriment to the owner in question. Surely the owner would much rather not have his two teams facing each other in the first few rounds, as it limits how far both teams can go.

Also...this isn't a loophole. No one is cheating or doing anything shady. WIS is knowingly putting that owner in a position to play his own team. The owner is simply making the best of it.

I have 5 teams waiting in a 255 TOC. With it at 23/32 and me having 3 more 255's in the second half with all in contention, I could have more.

I have never played in a TOC before, I'm doing well at the 255 level, but I'm kinda screwed as I will not have any chance for a win in a TOC on all but one of my teams. I never enter two teams in one league because I don't want to face myself. YES, I have considered throwing a series to myself to help myself.

I didn't ask to be put in this position.

If I enter a league and put in a division with Ozo, Skunk, and Rbow. I'm screwed.

While you enter that same league in a division with 3 1st time managers. You are golden.

Just luck. Bad for me, good for you.

The TOC is not the same as a league. I would never waste so many of my teams in a single league. The TOC is a nice addition to the game as a reward for playing.

The way I see it, I want to win a TOC or two. It sucks all my resources are, in a sense, wasted here in this one TOC. I have absolutely no chance to win two. Why not use the resources I do have to try and win one?

What about theme leagues where owners often have teams on both sides of the league? When they play interleague games, isn't it reasonable to expect the owner to take some advantage of playing their own team? I've been in that situation where both teams were good, and I hated that one had to lose games. But that's how it works, so why not rest a bunch of players and make the best of it?

I'm in a tournament with an owner who has teams in multiple divisions in the same league even, and if one of those teams were out of contention I'd expect the owner to maximize the wins for the better team when they play each other.

I don't see any of that as cheating.

Interesting discussion.

Here are the WIS rules or "What if Sports Guidelines"

These are the current rules. Do you think they should be changed?

https://www.whatifsports.com/account/FairPlayGuidelines/

Posted by redcped on 10/12/2019 3:44:00 PM (view original):
What about theme leagues where owners often have teams on both sides of the league? When they play interleague games, isn't it reasonable to expect the owner to take some advantage of playing their own team? I've been in that situation where both teams were good, and I hated that one had to lose games. But that's how it works, so why not rest a bunch of players and make the best of it?

I'm in a tournament with an owner who has teams in multiple divisions in the same league even, and if one of those teams were out of contention I'd expect the owner to maximize the wins for the better team when they play each other.

I don't see any of that as cheating.

+1