Posted by gillispie1 on 1/26/2020 2:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 1/26/2020 8:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 1/26/2020 7:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 1/26/2020 12:50:00 AM (view original):
Shoe this has not been your best thread.

I can't believe you actually told Benis to suppress the growth of a player not on the Big Board.

I am the biggest advocate of suppressing growth in the world, and I do it the moment a player hits 100 in all areas I don't feel are necessary to help my team nonnegligibly increase their odds to win the title.

But you cant suppress the LP on a big whos not in the Top 100! That is crazy! How will you ever win a title that way.

"How will you ever win a title that way"

Quickly scans poopshoes D1 history... you don't.

I love when you two parrot 0nly’s silly line of attack. “Shoe says the game shouldn’t be set up to let teams horde commodities and go on long, self-perpetuating runs of dominance. But he doesn’t even have any more D1 titles than Benis! Why would you listen to him?”

I’m comfortable with my D1 competitiveness. Only one team wins a D1 championship every year. For those following along, one of the key differences between my approach to the game, and that passed down from 0nly to his disciples, which they are *very invested* in keeping alive, is that I think the game should be fun for more people than the ones who dominate it. If I don’t win enough for you to pay attention to, that’s cool. Free country. If you don’t like my word count, logic, vocabulary or humor, also fine. I don’t need internet friends. Literally the only thing I care about, as it regards my participation in this forum, is whether the game is fun. So when Benis does stupid things like call the EE system random, and complain about having no control over it, I will continue point out his utter lack of imagination, and dull intellect.

So again, as regards the OP:

“If it’s that important to you, by all means max out as soon as possible. But don’t turn around and say the outcome (an early entry) is “random” and you had “no control” over it. You did. You made a choice that increased his odds of leaving early. Not being on the big board doesn’t mean he’s safe. Everyone who’s played more than a couple seasons of high level D1 should probably know that by now.”

you are totally off base here. nobody is against the game being fun for everybody, but the game should certainly be fun for those who are winning, wouldn't you think? i mean, if that's everyone's goal, then getting there should be pretty gratifying. the problems with EEs, as some folks see them, is that they really undermine the fun of building high end d1 programs. virtually nobody is saying high d1 teams aren't good enough, or don't have enough advantages - its really an enjoyment issue.

also, just because you have some influence on something, doesn't mean there isn't a major random factor. when folks say random in a casual setting like this (as opposed to a math forum or something), they rarely mean the random factor is the only factor - just that the random factor is larger than they like. calling EEs random is fine - frankly, you are pretty loose with the math concepts yourself, so you are in no position to try to hold others to such a rigid standard.

P.S. - what is with this conspiracy crap about the0nly and his disciples? the EE arguments being regurgitated here long predate the0nly, i sort of have no idea what you are talking about - but i really don't think you do, either...

He's referring to people like me, benis, cub, and sooooooo many others, that have been graciously helped by 0nly throughout their career. He's probably the most infamous HD player of all time. Due to his love for the game and helping coaches that were like minded. While also being hated by so many that thought he was a jerk.

When I first came back to HD, I viewed the forums that way. The "for-0nly" crews. And the "against-0nly" crews. Haha. It's like political parties. One tends to gravitate towards the people that see the game the way they do. I no longer feel the forums are that way of course. But at the time of my arrival (around April of 2017), it was the Hatfield's and McCoy's. Haha

** I assume it also goes as far back as beta. Which i was not around for. Some coaches wanted one style of play. Some wanted another

Posted by shoe3 on 1/26/2020 1:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 1/26/2020 1:04:00 AM (view original):
Shoe, I have two questions and a comment. My comment is....

I (and probably everyone else) feel like you LOVE the EE situation. That's just super weird

My questions..... 1) why does the game have to be this way, to have a good multiplayer simulation, like you say? What's wrong with the rich being rich? Why do we need to hand out participation trophies to everyone? What's wrong with a Big 6 team winning every season? Or Kansas/UNC/Duke winning all the time? To me, that's a GOOD thing! Only the coaches with the best resumes should get those jobs. Why should the UK job go to a coach that has just played a long time and has an above average resume?

2) Do you REALLY believe that a "fun" and "good" way to play this game, is upon signing an elite recruit, to sabotage his ratings and make him NOT an elite recruit with growth, simply because he might leave? That's good game play?

Question 2 is ridiculous any way to make it. Gil and others are correct, in making IQ "different" in some way shape or form, to balance out the true worth of a young EE caliber player. I'm so sorry, but the ridiculousness of this very issue is why I will never play D1 if I continued playing this game for 50 years. It's STUPID beyond belief!!!!!!!!

As far as question 1, I just feel like you want everyone to be able to take turns being good. That is not a good way to make a multiplayer game fun. If someone is good at the game, they should be good at the game.

Regarding your comment, that would be a poor interpretation of what I’ve said. I explicitly and specifically told you the ways I think the system could be improved, to something ideal and wonderful that I could LOVE. Either you’re neglecting to read what i actually write in response to you, or all that time with Benis has rubbed off, and you’re just deliberately misrepresenting what I write.

Regarding 1: By “this way”, I assume you mean the possibility of losing early entries. Well one, there is a real life NBA drafting real players from real college basketball teams, sometimes before they graduate, so a simulation of college basketball without that feature would be pretty dumb. And because this is primarily set up as a resource allocation game - it doesn’t have to be, I don’t think it should be, but that’s what it is - to make it competitive (ie players need to work to stay on top, there is no mechanism to exploit to just remain on top in perpetuity) those elite commodities we are competing for need to have volatility. Since the attributes and potential are absolute, and pretty much knowable, the volatility aspect relies on early entry. In other words, since there are no unexpected “busts”, volatility comes in the form of losing access to them. That prevents a form of winner’s ball, where advantages of success just extends in perpetuity. Why is that bad? Because this is a game people pay to play. Why pay for a game where people have unassailable advantages just by virtue of being here first?

Regarding 2: I didn’t say it was good and fun. Don’t put words on my keypad, Benis Jr. I said it’s a strategy that coaches can use to mitigate the risk. To me, good and fun isn’t a game where there is one specific path to figure out and know, and every question has a “correct” answer. Good and fun is a game where I can develop many different viable strategies, and use them as I see fit, with some expectation of success, when applied in reasonable situations. In other words, I want a game that has standards of risk and reward, and requires players to navigate those decisions, and deal with the consequences. Sometimes losing an elite commodity to early entry is a reasonable risk when recruiting elite commodities.

Don’t play D1, then. And don’t coach it in real life either, if you can’t tolerate the volatility of elite commodities.

And “taking turns being good” is, again, a very stupid way to interpret what I’ve written. I want being good at the game to mean something. If Benis was better at the game, he would have been able to tell that Jackson was good enough to leave early, and he would have noticed that there were very few graduating seniors on the big board, so he wasn’t safe.

And it’s also insulting to all the excellent 3.0 coaches out there who maintain programs that are much better on a much more consistent basis than any real life program. Nobody wants “participation trophies”. What I want is a game that treats evaluation, long term planning, and adaptability as skills that figure into success. In other words, maintaining a top level D1 team (or “being good”, as you say) is more than knowing what numbers are higher and what positions need passing versus rebounding.

'Why pay for a game where people have unassailable advantages just by virtue of being here first?'

- this has never existed, and high d1 teams have barely any advantage now. people complained about this issue back then when high d1 teams did have major advantages, because it is not and never has been about the advantages of d1 teams - its always been an enjoyment issue. not sure what that is so hard for you to understand.

i played back in the days when high d1 teams actually had big advantages, but they were never unassailable, or anything even close. good coaches could always climb the latter and take the throne. this is a tough issue to debate here because 1) you have no understanding of the issues on the other side, and show no desire to understand them 2) you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. like this whole idea that 'being here first' does anything - you know how many teams were picked up 'first' (season 15 or so per world) and have been carried ever since, dominating the whole way? zero. not even one. almost every top d1 program in history was picked up by someone who wasn't there first and who dominated in spite of it.

the bottom line here - EEs aren't fun for a lot of people, and that is the gripe. its really that simple. that has been the gripe this whole time, for 10+ yars, its a gripe that comes from long time and short time coaches, its a gripe that comes from great coaches and mediocre coaches, and that is for one simple reason - its about how much fun it is. which, for most of us, is 'not very fun at all'. if you enjoy it - great, i'm glad someone does - but you should at least have the basic ability to recognize others do not.

Posted by topdogggbm on 1/26/2020 2:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/26/2020 2:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 1/26/2020 8:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 1/26/2020 7:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 1/26/2020 12:50:00 AM (view original):
Shoe this has not been your best thread.

I can't believe you actually told Benis to suppress the growth of a player not on the Big Board.

I am the biggest advocate of suppressing growth in the world, and I do it the moment a player hits 100 in all areas I don't feel are necessary to help my team nonnegligibly increase their odds to win the title.

But you cant suppress the LP on a big whos not in the Top 100! That is crazy! How will you ever win a title that way.

"How will you ever win a title that way"

Quickly scans poopshoes D1 history... you don't.

I love when you two parrot 0nly’s silly line of attack. “Shoe says the game shouldn’t be set up to let teams horde commodities and go on long, self-perpetuating runs of dominance. But he doesn’t even have any more D1 titles than Benis! Why would you listen to him?”

I’m comfortable with my D1 competitiveness. Only one team wins a D1 championship every year. For those following along, one of the key differences between my approach to the game, and that passed down from 0nly to his disciples, which they are *very invested* in keeping alive, is that I think the game should be fun for more people than the ones who dominate it. If I don’t win enough for you to pay attention to, that’s cool. Free country. If you don’t like my word count, logic, vocabulary or humor, also fine. I don’t need internet friends. Literally the only thing I care about, as it regards my participation in this forum, is whether the game is fun. So when Benis does stupid things like call the EE system random, and complain about having no control over it, I will continue point out his utter lack of imagination, and dull intellect.

So again, as regards the OP:

“If it’s that important to you, by all means max out as soon as possible. But don’t turn around and say the outcome (an early entry) is “random” and you had “no control” over it. You did. You made a choice that increased his odds of leaving early. Not being on the big board doesn’t mean he’s safe. Everyone who’s played more than a couple seasons of high level D1 should probably know that by now.”

you are totally off base here. nobody is against the game being fun for everybody, but the game should certainly be fun for those who are winning, wouldn't you think? i mean, if that's everyone's goal, then getting there should be pretty gratifying. the problems with EEs, as some folks see them, is that they really undermine the fun of building high end d1 programs. virtually nobody is saying high d1 teams aren't good enough, or don't have enough advantages - its really an enjoyment issue.

also, just because you have some influence on something, doesn't mean there isn't a major random factor. when folks say random in a casual setting like this (as opposed to a math forum or something), they rarely mean the random factor is the only factor - just that the random factor is larger than they like. calling EEs random is fine - frankly, you are pretty loose with the math concepts yourself, so you are in no position to try to hold others to such a rigid standard.

P.S. - what is with this conspiracy crap about the0nly and his disciples? the EE arguments being regurgitated here long predate the0nly, i sort of have no idea what you are talking about - but i really don't think you do, either...

He's referring to people like me, benis, cub, and sooooooo many others, that have been graciously helped by 0nly throughout their career. He's probably the most infamous HD player of all time. Due to his love for the game and helping coaches that were like minded. While also being hated by so many that thought he was a jerk.

When I first came back to HD, I viewed the forums that way. The "for-0nly" crews. And the "against-0nly" crews. Haha. It's like political parties. One tends to gravitate towards the people that see the game the way they do. I no longer feel the forums are that way of course. But at the time of my arrival (around April of 2017), it was the Hatfield's and McCoy's. Haha

** I assume it also goes as far back as beta. Which i was not around for. Some coaches wanted one style of play. Some wanted another

with the utmost warmth and respect - you guys are idiots :)

“the bottom line here - EEs aren't fun for a lot of people, and that is the gripe. its really that simple. that has been the gripe this whole time, for 10+ yars, its a gripe that comes from long time and short time coaches, its a gripe that comes from great coaches and mediocre coaches, and that is for one simple reason - its about how much fun it is. which, for most of us, is 'not very fun at all'. if you enjoy it - great, i'm glad someone does - but you should at least have the basic ability to recognize others do not.”

No gil, that’s not the bottom line. People want reward without risk. Look at the OP. Benis doesn’t understand the system that exists, and is purposely spreading misinformation about it. And he (along with some others) has been doing it since the close of beta. The misinformation he spreads about it directly impacts people’s satisfaction of the game. Continuing to spread the notion that it’s random, and players have no control over whether a player might be drafted or not is simply false.

I understand that people don’t like losing things they think of as theirs. I really do. It’s a big part of why I don’t play HBD anymore; the injury system there is absurd. There’s a difference between the two games though. In HD, losing a player to early entry is a natural consequence of 1) recruiting elite players, and 2) certain choices a user makes about the development of that player. There is a rational risk and reward dichotomy. This isn’t true in HBD, where you can spend max on training and medical, and a player with 99 durability can still suffer a debilitating injury. For HD, the volatility is natural, and based in user gameplay choices. For HBD, the volatility is just arbitrary.

I think I know why attribute suppression feels off to you. We are all conditioned (especially in competitive spaces) to think in terms of rewarding maximum efficiency. Game theory economics, which dominates modern US economic and political life, is a big part of that. It feels wrong to folks now to do something other than fully and efficiently maximize commodities (you’re welcome, mully, take a shot of Woodford Reserve for me) and resources for optimal gain. People tend to resist confounding factors, like sustainability or equity, especially when they enjoy short term benefits from maximum efficiency. Like farmers using crop rotation methods and letting fields go fallow. It can feel off, if you’re geared toward short term resource optimization, because immediate productivity is not maximized. And for the most part, that’s us. This is a resource allocation game, more than anything else. Like I said many times, it doesn’t have to be, and I would prefer it not be, but that’s what it is. And under that framework, player development is essentially resource development. We can develop our players efficiently, optimized for maximum immediate benefit; but that’s short term thinking, because the short term optimization can come at the expense of long term availability.

You acknowledge that it’s not a competitive balance issue. Great coaches are winning plenty. It really just comes down to people not wanting to lose their stuff. And that’s pretty myopic, from a game development standpoint. Folks complaining about losing their stuff aren’t thinking about the big picture, about what happens when you pull that thread, and now there are greatly reduced risks and volatility for the elite commodities (Jack this time, thanks).

This isnt the the game I would have designed. But I agree with those guiding principles, that the game does not want any individual coach to have an endless stream of elite resources in perpetuity; and that surprises (upsets, volatility, etc), while individually disappointing, are necessary to create a competitive multiplayer environment. That’s why EEs continue to exist, why they remain a headache to manage around, and why short of a wholesale overhaul of game design away from resource allocation, increasing resources available to replace them is a non-starter.

The way to deal with early entries is and has always been up to individual coach gameplay decisions. As long as those decisions have rational risks and rewards attached, I could not possibly care less about what Benis thinks about losing a player he damn well should have known was going to be at risk. That’s the actual bottom line.

"People want reward without risk. "
amen

I don't usually comment on stuff like this because it's kind of a waste of time since nothing is changing, but my wife is at work, the kids are at the grandparents for a bit, and I'm glued to my couch watching the news of the shocking death of Kobe Bryant (R.I.P., condolences to his family, especially since his 13 year old daughter Gianna also was on board, and condolences to the families of the others on board). Anyway, sorry about that, but I think it's fair to say that I have as much, if not more experience with EEs as anybody. I just lost 3 at Kansas and 3 at UCLA including 2 one and dones. Here are my thoughts, trying not to pick sides:
1. EEs, as they are, are fine, in my opinion. I recruit the top players, I know they are leaving early. I don't slow their growth, my choice, it feels wrong to me but there is nothing against the rules with it so I have no problem with it if others do it. Does it hurt when I lose a guy who "shouldn't" leave? Of course, I get over it and have plans for it.

2. Sometimes I think we forget that this is a sim game where about one hundred D1 seasons are simmed in a calendar year. So does the #2 player on the big board sometimes stay. Yes, I'm pretty sure it happens in real life also once every 10 years or so (no research), so it just gets magnified when it happens once a month or two here instead of once a decade.

3. There are some things that I think would help the game, but they aren't only EE driven, though they would help EEs as well (again, if they don't change, I'm good with that also).
a. Everyone should get the same attention points every cycle. Let's say 80 or 100. One of the things that does frustrate me is that if I sign 2 guys early in the first cycle, as I did at Kansas last season, I'm stuck at 20 APs for numerous cycles so I can't even open up some actions on late guys even though I know I have 3 EEs probably coming up. If you let me keep the APs, or only took away 10 instead of 20 or something so I could open up actions for late guys I'd be for that.
b. My favorite division to play is D3 but only have 2 teams there (okay, I just got a third today that I'm going to run with my 6 year old). I can't stand D2, I have a team there because I want to like it. I enjoy D1. Honestly, I'd have more D3 teams but I feel bad playing there, beating the snot out of new coaches so I usually end up moving up. I think there should be transfers at D2 and at D3, similar to the D1 EE list (I know some would hate this), to become available to all D1 schools, fully scouted, in the second session. Here is what this would do. It would even the playing field at D2 and D3 to take away a little of the advantage from guys like me who clean up there but truly enjoy it. I literally feel bad playing there. It would also give 30 - 50 prospects lets say to help coaches at D1 find guys that could fill in for a year or two.
c. The fact that D2 schools sign D1 guys when they do, first cycle of session 2, is just stupid. It punishes new coaches and EE coaches and ruins D2. Plus these guys in real life would be waiting for D1 schools to offer them scholarships and would wait for the dust to settle (usually). I think if you waited and made D2 teams sign D1 guys one cycle before D3 can it would be much better, because they would still have the advantage over the D3 teams but would give D1 guys a chance at some of those players (by the way, this would help coaches that changed schools much more than EE coaches).

Hope this makes sense, got to get the kids. Again, RIP to all lost in the helicopter crash today.

“Again, RIP to all lost in the helicopter crash today.”

Same. Saw this news after I posted, and now feel bad for fighting about trivial stuff. Life is short. Hug your kids.

Posted by piman314 on 1/26/2020 4:32:00 PM (view original):
I don't usually comment on stuff like this because it's kind of a waste of time since nothing is changing, but my wife is at work, the kids are at the grandparents for a bit, and I'm glued to my couch watching the news of the shocking death of Kobe Bryant (R.I.P., condolences to his family, especially since his 13 year old daughter Gianna also was on board, and condolences to the families of the others on board). Anyway, sorry about that, but I think it's fair to say that I have as much, if not more experience with EEs as anybody. I just lost 3 at Kansas and 3 at UCLA including 2 one and dones. Here are my thoughts, trying not to pick sides:
1. EEs, as they are, are fine, in my opinion. I recruit the top players, I know they are leaving early. I don't slow their growth, my choice, it feels wrong to me but there is nothing against the rules with it so I have no problem with it if others do it. Does it hurt when I lose a guy who "shouldn't" leave? Of course, I get over it and have plans for it.

2. Sometimes I think we forget that this is a sim game where about one hundred D1 seasons are simmed in a calendar year. So does the #2 player on the big board sometimes stay. Yes, I'm pretty sure it happens in real life also once every 10 years or so (no research), so it just gets magnified when it happens once a month or two here instead of once a decade.

3. There are some things that I think would help the game, but they aren't only EE driven, though they would help EEs as well (again, if they don't change, I'm good with that also).
a. Everyone should get the same attention points every cycle. Let's say 80 or 100. One of the things that does frustrate me is that if I sign 2 guys early in the first cycle, as I did at Kansas last season, I'm stuck at 20 APs for numerous cycles so I can't even open up some actions on late guys even though I know I have 3 EEs probably coming up. If you let me keep the APs, or only took away 10 instead of 20 or something so I could open up actions for late guys I'd be for that.
b. My favorite division to play is D3 but only have 2 teams there (okay, I just got a third today that I'm going to run with my 6 year old). I can't stand D2, I have a team there because I want to like it. I enjoy D1. Honestly, I'd have more D3 teams but I feel bad playing there, beating the snot out of new coaches so I usually end up moving up. I think there should be transfers at D2 and at D3, similar to the D1 EE list (I know some would hate this), to become available to all D1 schools, fully scouted, in the second session. Here is what this would do. It would even the playing field at D2 and D3 to take away a little of the advantage from guys like me who clean up there but truly enjoy it. I literally feel bad playing there. It would also give 30 - 50 prospects lets say to help coaches at D1 find guys that could fill in for a year or two.
c. The fact that D2 schools sign D1 guys when they do, first cycle of session 2, is just stupid. It punishes new coaches and EE coaches and ruins D2. Plus these guys in real life would be waiting for D1 schools to offer them scholarships and would wait for the dust to settle (usually). I think if you waited and made D2 teams sign D1 guys one cycle before D3 can it would be much better, because they would still have the advantage over the D3 teams but would give D1 guys a chance at some of those players (by the way, this would help coaches that changed schools much more than EE coaches).

Hope this makes sense, got to get the kids. Again, RIP to all lost in the helicopter crash today.

I would love the factor of EE's at Division III it would destroy the powerhouse of 20 years conferences like previous USA south and would make the playing field near even. However most have express to not go to 2.0 but the real life aspect is too hard for most people and most people do not know math. I have taken European courses and we do not take notes or services from people who do not understand that you are probably at worst dumb down in the broken english world but we draw the line at Advance Trigonemtry where its modeling with fractions and how to mainpulate the decimal points but please carry own with your own formula as we have all witness the bad model of fake NBA teams

I also don’t have a problem with EE. I have always found benis’s complaining about it a little whiney. I don’t like shoes counter points either though.

speaking of only, do any of you keep in touch with him? I legitimately thought he lost his mind. Is he ok?

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/26/2020 5:04:00 PM (view original):
I also don’t have a problem with EE. I have always found benis’s complaining about it a little whiney. I don’t like shoes counter points either though.

speaking of only, do any of you keep in touch with him? I legitimately thought he lost his mind. Is he ok?

I talk with him daily. He's sane. Haha. And life is good

He's actually a good dude. HD just warped his mind. And he always had to be explosive. Haha. Separate him from HD and he's pretty normal.

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/26/2020 2:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 1/26/2020 2:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/26/2020 2:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 1/26/2020 8:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 1/26/2020 7:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 1/26/2020 12:50:00 AM (view original):
Shoe this has not been your best thread.

I can't believe you actually told Benis to suppress the growth of a player not on the Big Board.

I am the biggest advocate of suppressing growth in the world, and I do it the moment a player hits 100 in all areas I don't feel are necessary to help my team nonnegligibly increase their odds to win the title.

But you cant suppress the LP on a big whos not in the Top 100! That is crazy! How will you ever win a title that way.

"How will you ever win a title that way"

Quickly scans poopshoes D1 history... you don't.

I love when you two parrot 0nly’s silly line of attack. “Shoe says the game shouldn’t be set up to let teams horde commodities and go on long, self-perpetuating runs of dominance. But he doesn’t even have any more D1 titles than Benis! Why would you listen to him?”

I’m comfortable with my D1 competitiveness. Only one team wins a D1 championship every year. For those following along, one of the key differences between my approach to the game, and that passed down from 0nly to his disciples, which they are *very invested* in keeping alive, is that I think the game should be fun for more people than the ones who dominate it. If I don’t win enough for you to pay attention to, that’s cool. Free country. If you don’t like my word count, logic, vocabulary or humor, also fine. I don’t need internet friends. Literally the only thing I care about, as it regards my participation in this forum, is whether the game is fun. So when Benis does stupid things like call the EE system random, and complain about having no control over it, I will continue point out his utter lack of imagination, and dull intellect.

So again, as regards the OP:

“If it’s that important to you, by all means max out as soon as possible. But don’t turn around and say the outcome (an early entry) is “random” and you had “no control” over it. You did. You made a choice that increased his odds of leaving early. Not being on the big board doesn’t mean he’s safe. Everyone who’s played more than a couple seasons of high level D1 should probably know that by now.”

you are totally off base here. nobody is against the game being fun for everybody, but the game should certainly be fun for those who are winning, wouldn't you think? i mean, if that's everyone's goal, then getting there should be pretty gratifying. the problems with EEs, as some folks see them, is that they really undermine the fun of building high end d1 programs. virtually nobody is saying high d1 teams aren't good enough, or don't have enough advantages - its really an enjoyment issue.

also, just because you have some influence on something, doesn't mean there isn't a major random factor. when folks say random in a casual setting like this (as opposed to a math forum or something), they rarely mean the random factor is the only factor - just that the random factor is larger than they like. calling EEs random is fine - frankly, you are pretty loose with the math concepts yourself, so you are in no position to try to hold others to such a rigid standard.

P.S. - what is with this conspiracy crap about the0nly and his disciples? the EE arguments being regurgitated here long predate the0nly, i sort of have no idea what you are talking about - but i really don't think you do, either...

He's referring to people like me, benis, cub, and sooooooo many others, that have been graciously helped by 0nly throughout their career. He's probably the most infamous HD player of all time. Due to his love for the game and helping coaches that were like minded. While also being hated by so many that thought he was a jerk.

When I first came back to HD, I viewed the forums that way. The "for-0nly" crews. And the "against-0nly" crews. Haha. It's like political parties. One tends to gravitate towards the people that see the game the way they do. I no longer feel the forums are that way of course. But at the time of my arrival (around April of 2017), it was the Hatfield's and McCoy's. Haha

** I assume it also goes as far back as beta. Which i was not around for. Some coaches wanted one style of play. Some wanted another

with the utmost warmth and respect - you guys are idiots :)

Hahaha. I agree. But YOU asked!

“I also don’t have a problem with EE. I have always found benis’s complaining about it a little whiney. I don’t like shoes counter points either though.”

That’s interesting because the first two sentences are a pretty good summary of my position; dealing with early entries is a coaching gameplay decision. All the other stuff is just because I am notoriously easy to drag down a rabbit hole.

Posted by shoe3 on 1/26/2020 5:26:00 PM (view original):
“I also don’t have a problem with EE. I have always found benis’s complaining about it a little whiney. I don’t like shoes counter points either though.”

That’s interesting because the first two sentences are a pretty good summary of my position; dealing with early entries is a coaching gameplay decision. All the other stuff is just because I am notoriously easy to drag down a rabbit hole.

Oh come on now shoe, you have your supporters too! No reason to be all negative!

Tj asked if anyone still talks to 0nly. What about MikeT? Anybody ever hear from him anymore? I've always considered him a possibility to be the fakewardo.

Posted by topdogggbm on 1/26/2020 5:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 1/26/2020 5:26:00 PM (view original):
“I also don’t have a problem with EE. I have always found benis’s complaining about it a little whiney. I don’t like shoes counter points either though.”

That’s interesting because the first two sentences are a pretty good summary of my position; dealing with early entries is a coaching gameplay decision. All the other stuff is just because I am notoriously easy to drag down a rabbit hole.

Oh come on now shoe, you have your supporters too! No reason to be all negative!

Tj asked if anyone still talks to 0nly. What about MikeT? Anybody ever hear from him anymore? I've always considered him a possibility to be the fakewardo.

Lol, if this were 80s/90s professional wrestling I would be an unapologetic heel.

I met Arn Anderson once. Best day of my life.

All the problems with early entries would be solved if you just had the draft at the beginning of the season, this way teams losing players can utilize their APs and recruiting money for the first cycle. Seems like a simple solution to me.