One statistic I would like to know more about is NP, or the number of pitches drawn by hitters. There is a lot of attention given to pitchers and their pitch counts, but perhaps not enough thought given to the opposite: which batters are the most likely to make pitchers work the hardest. Batters with high walks and low strikeouts might seem to be the best at working the count, but it could also be that low K batters are the ones most likely to swing and put the first and second pitch into play....with this in mind, is it high-walk and high-K batters who work the pitchers the hardest? I think about NP a lot. I don't find an offensive representation in this database.
I am interested in your opinions.

Getting on base, scoring runs is what I would focus on. High average, high on base, good BB/SO ratios. Don't overanalyze this.

Look at the pinned threads. The decision tree spells it out. Focus on spending your money wisely. You'll likely make bigger gains there.

My money is on a guy who gets himself out less than the other guy I'm considering, all other things being equal.

I doubt you gain much of anything getting a guy that sees an average of 10 pitcher per at bat that hits .260. Is not what my focus would be on.

I know of no place where they keep track of the number of pitches a hitter faced. I don't think you will find out how many times Mickey Mantle struck out on 3 pitches, walked on 4 pitches, or worked the count full.

I don't see the relevance of digging into this one too deep.

Yes high strike out and high walk guys see the most pitches. I've run a lineup with Jack Cust / Gene Tennace types to maximize that before. The amount of extra pitches taken wasn't overly remarkable in terms of causing the other team fatigue. IIRC, I might have drawn 5-10% more than the next team.

Posted by bmcelroy8 on 2/6/2020 6:54:00 PM (view original):
One statistic I would like to know more about is NP, or the number of pitches drawn by hitters. There is a lot of attention given to pitchers and their pitch counts, but perhaps not enough thought given to the opposite: which batters are the most likely to make pitchers work the hardest. Batters with high walks and low strikeouts might seem to be the best at working the count, but it could also be that low K batters are the ones most likely to swing and put the first and second pitch into play....with this in mind, is it high-walk and high-K batters who work the pitchers the hardest? I think about NP a lot. I don't find an offensive representation in this database.
I am interested in your opinions.

great great post......i once mentioned this.
it makes someone like richie ashburn more valuable...he has high np....
i think it is a great point.

in LIVE play there was a weird thing where walks and strikeouts by a good hitter tended to use up more pitches than a bad hitter

ie if two straight Ruths went walk-K it would use up 13-15 total pitches but if a scrub 8 hitter then a pitcher went walk K it would be 7 to 9 pitches

my memory on this is a bit hazy so I can't recall where the line was but there definitely was a line. striking out a pitcher never took 7-8 pitches the way striking out a good hitter sometimes could.

There are only 45 player seasons in the database with 100+ K and 100 + BB that struck out 22 or less per 100 that hit .275 or better. Most produce using the long ball.

3 are under $5M. Many are relatively expensive. A lot of them aren't great with a glove.

My question is are they worth it? Most of them get themselves out far too often. Is their value greater than the fatigue they cause the opposing pitchers?

Many HR hitters with high K rates produce, but don't achieve near their RL totals.

It is not often that power hitting teams win in the Sim with deadball pitchers squelching XBH.

If you don't limit yourself to a .275avg there are some very well priced players. They hit into few double plays relative to their speed as another benefit.

I guess I am speaking about real baseball here, not the sim. Of course, OBP is huge, but it may not account for wear and tear on pitcher arms as accurately as it seems.

Think about a guy like DiMaggio or Yogi Berra. Neither walked nor struck out much at all. Compared to a Wade Boggs, or a Joe Morgan....who is really the one working the pitcher? Of course, getting on base (OBP) means that the pitcher now has to face another batter afterward...but I struggle to find a way to show that some hitters--even though their stats may show that they are .250 AVG/ .325OBP--they can still be "tough outs," and still be lethal to pitchers...more so than the big walkers....or perhaps even more than the batting champs who swing at first pitch or two. Again, talking actual baseball here...not the sim, but I continue to see if I can better define what i mean as I play these games. What do you think? If you look at championship teams, they are often stacked with veterans who are "tough outs," but may not necessarily have good stats. It always makes me wheels turn.

What qualifies as a "tough out"????????