That gets back to the whole idea that leagues need rules that dis-incentivize losing. It is not practical to make (and police) rules that account for all the possible ways to tank. Some ways become obvious, like when the league's leaderboard shows one player with a factor of ten more errors or passed balls than anyone else, or when someone has an enormous BB:SO ratio. Using incredibly fatigued pitchers, including mop-up guys who stay in a game for way too long, is probably my biggest pet peeve here. That's where the incredible BB:SO ratios show up. Even if an owner isn't trying to lose a lot of games, I hate seeing those mop-up guys left in long enough to give up 20 runs and inflate the other team's stats. But I guess that's another topic.

BTW, dino, I'm glad to see you're off to a good start in my league. Hope you're in it for 15-20 seasons like you mentioned in that earlier post!

It's his $12.95.

If allowed, propose a rule change. Many progressives allow this.

Don't call me names. I mean well here. I've helped you many times, yet you find an argument with nearly every point i try to make. I've had my fill of it. Is why I slammed you. Be nice. I crap bigger than you...

Both of y’all....


Eat a Snickers

you're not you when you’re hungry

Don't like a bar full of rednecks? Than don't go there. Don't like the bar full of liberals, don't go there. Don't like a progressive with no catching rules, than don't join. I don't understand why people complain about leagues when the rules are know. Don't like the rules, than don't join....

He isn't cheating if no rule exists. He's doing something you don't approve of. It is his right to set his lineup as he wishes.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Most commissioners are not going to want to have to comb through rosters to check each position for PA. Fact.

Propose the rule change.

I can remember more than one occasion where I went into a season realizing I goofed, was short on PA at a position. It was an oversight. Perhaps i confused a guy like Brian Downing, thought the upcoming season he had ratings at catcher. I didn't do it to tank, I just ****** up.

I was so busy, or had no team built in the draft center while juggling 9,999 other things. People mailing me about a trade at 2am(Creeper), or the crazy Asian distracting me. **** happens.

If your commish won't fix the problem, go play somewhere else where they will...

My own inattentiveness caused me to stop playing progressives. I got tired of not having time to dedicate. I still get invites to play or start a league.

I feel your pain. Take it up with the owners in your league. As a group, approach the commish with a solution. Put it to a vote...

Posted by dino27 on 2/7/2020 12:25:00 AM (view original):
i never mentioned any commish here number one.
second ....if some forgot to have a catcher you take a penalty from an ethical commisioner if your team tanks because of it.
tanking on purpose gets worse.
tanking on purpose however you do it is cheating.
hey braniacs - cheating is THE rule.
is that too complicated.

It's not too complicated. It's too grey.

I don't want to join a league where the rules are "no tanking. Tanking is defined by whatever dino27 thinks is tanking. If you make a mistake and underdraft PA at any position, Dino may call this tanking, or he may believe you."

Rules need to be codified. If something isn't against the rules, it isn't cheating. You can request commissioners to add rules. They don't have to do so. If most of the league doesn't agree with you, they probably shouldn't do so. If you don't like the rules that exist, don't play in that league.

I generally agree that in the situation you've pointed out, where the guy has the PAs, the commissioner should send a sitemail and request that the owner in question only use his real catchers to play catcher. He could be punished, IE by draft position, if he refused to comply. Most leagues have rules that give commissioners some latitude for things like this. But I don't agree with having a blanket rule that 'you must have xxx PAs at every position' because it becomes very restrictive. If you are rebuilding in 1972, you've had a catcher retire, and all you've got left is Gene Tenace, should you feel like you can't draft Bob Boone unless you're going to carry 3 catchers? If you're not going to win 60 games this season anyway? In the longer run, it is certainly the best thing for your team to have Gene Tenace and Bob Boone. You can always trade one of them later.

There is a complex way to address tanking. It entails:
-- Getting the owners in the league to agree on very precise rules about what constitutes tanking and what doesn't
-- Getting the owners in the league to agree with exactly what the punishment should be for violations of any of those rules
-- Someone (usually the commissioner) to monitor every team at all times to ensure there are no such violations
-- Enforcing the rules (which almost assuredly will involve a dispute with the owner in question)
-- Revising the rules and the penalties when someone finds a clever (whether intentional or not) loophole

There is a simple way to address tanking. It entails:
-- Divorce the draft order from team record. Make it random, or make it based on any of a number of formulas that have been developed on WIS over the years that reward teams that overachieve given their payroll, or come up with something else. (Note: in my opinion things like win floors and lotteries of the bottom X teams fail to solve the problem. You need to completely remove the relationship between record and draft order, otherwise there always be an incentive to not put your best team on the field.)

The simple way is fast, easy, completely eliminates ANY incentive to tank, and it absolutely works. Many of the league's that use this method are among the longest running, most stable, most successful progressives in WIS.

Yes, it could be construed as "unfair" to teams that are legitimately rebuilding. I happen to think that is an easily overcome argument, but even if I didn't I would gladly make that tradeoff to avoid the time and complexity of the kind of league dino apparently wants.

How does it help me? Prevents you from whining? It's something else I have to check on rosters. I don't have a secretary.

Start your own league. Do the roster checking. Add in a bunch of rules. See how YOU like it.

The whining and ******** is why I no longer commish progressives. I got sick of hearing it.

Whining like Tulsi Gabbard

Posted by bronxcheer on 2/8/2020 10:19:00 AM (view original):
Whining like Tulsi Gabbard

So you're a veteran right?

Cause she is.

And you think we should stay in Afghanistan until your grandchildren are old enough to fight there? And you'll encourage them to do so, right?

I teach US military personnel. It's my main job. Many disagree with me politically very strongly, many agree with me on politics. Some are religious, some are atheists, they are male and female, gay and straight. Every ethnicity imaginable.

Some suffer from PTSS, some are old enough to have suffered from Gulf War syndrome. Some of them have written to me asking for extensions on their papers and exams because IEDs went off and blew their jeep to hell and they are in the hospital, so want to know if they turn the paper in a day or two late.

Some of them think we should get the hell out of Afghanistan, and stay out of the Middle East or avoid all regime change wars. Some think we should so even more in those places, and can't wait to get back into combat.

Some are Democrats, some Republicans. You know what veterans are not?

Whiners. You know what it's disrespectful to call them if you are not one? Whiners.

So, good thing you are a veteran. I thank you for your service to our country. If you have taken fire while in our armed forces, you have earned the right to call Tulsi Gabbard, or John McCain, or Bob Dole, my father who was in the navy in World War Two and is now 92, a whiner.

If not, you can support or criticize the wars. You can, like me - a non-veteran with no military experience - have put your own safety on the line, and suffered physical harm, as I did, and damaged your career trying to stop wars, or you can have done the same in order to help bring about wars you think we needed to fight. But calling veterans whiners is inappropriate.

Posted by dino27 on 2/7/2020 2:39:00 PM (view original):
a lot of people dont like me because im against cheaters and i have the unmitigated gall to offer pragmatic improvements.
iim good with that.

Holy **** get over yourself. Everyone here is anti-tanking and anti-cheating. Just because they don’t agree with you on every little thing, doesn’t mean they are totally against you and your enemy.


This should be judged on a case-by-case basis.

You cannot and SHOULD NOT put in a blanket rule like that the one you are proposing with the minimum catchers PAs. It is up to the commissioner and the league to see if there are any foul intentions.

And that title is just so...ugh, someone help me with the word here. He’s acting so high and mighty.