Who looks at the value of attention points vs HVs and CVs? Any self proclaimed experts here?

Do you try to boil down all recruiting efforts into 1 common denominator ?

I convert to HV's. I use :

60 AP = 1 HV
CV =2.3 HV
scholarschip = 2HV
start = 2.5 HV
5 minutes of playing time = .5 HV

You have starts and minutes as additions and not multipliers?

its only a multiplier if there is a pref, and that is only for minutes - which then would be a combo multiplier and fixed value. by default its all fixed values. i guess i'm stating that like a fact and i'm not really sure it is, but im pretty sure its always been that way and still is?

i do think his value for hv:promises over values hv / under values promises. well, i guess i feel that about his whole slate - not that i have any confidence i could put out a more accurate one.

edit: when i say fixed value... im not sure that is actually the right term. its an addition, not a multiplication. i have long suspected promise values could be impacted just like redshirt and scholarship pulls, by the player's sense of self relative to your prestige/level (d2/d3 etc). i don't think its nearly as strong as an effect as redshirts and scholarship pulls get, and i'm not even sure there is an effect at all - but i do want to curb my use of 'fixed value' there because there is a very significant likelihood it is not in fact fixed. in the olden days, without question, whether a player would accept a promise was impacted by their sense of self deal. but i was never certain about the actual value of the promises themselves.

I'm not doubting this or anything, just wondering. Was there a study done or are these numbers guesses?

Posted by Sportsbulls on 5/7/2020 2:36:00 PM (view original):
I'm not doubting this or anything, just wondering. Was there a study done or are these numbers guesses?

i dont have an answer but i'm sure a lot of people have made efforts to figure out the numbers, whether its enough to call it a study or not.

i am too lazy to complete such a study myself, but i really wanted to when i started 3.0. i got a start on it but i expected to struggle more and use that as motivation, but i didn't, so that kinda put an end to that. however, if a couple coaches want to band together to figure this out i'd be down to contribute to the effort!

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/7/2020 12:17:00 PM (view original):
I convert to HV's. I use :

60 AP = 1 HV
CV =2.3 HV
scholarschip = 2HV
start = 2.5 HV
5 minutes of playing time = .5 HV

Based upon how much it helped unlock actions, I always had scholarship at 100 AP.

I think that 5 minutes is a bit low. Only 30AP doesn't seem right.

Hell, I remember one time you and I were in a battle and I increased my minutes promised from 20 to 25 and it knocked you down from High to Moderate. I dunno, maybe you were already on the edge and it's only anecdotal but that's what I remember.

Posted by Benis on 5/7/2020 3:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/7/2020 12:17:00 PM (view original):
I convert to HV's. I use :

60 AP = 1 HV
CV =2.3 HV
scholarschip = 2HV
start = 2.5 HV
5 minutes of playing time = .5 HV

Based upon how much it helped unlock actions, I always had scholarship at 100 AP.

I think that 5 minutes is a bit low. Only 30AP doesn't seem right.

Hell, I remember one time you and I were in a battle and I increased my minutes promised from 20 to 25 and it knocked you down from High to Moderate. I dunno, maybe you were already on the edge and it's only anecdotal but that's what I remember.

the one recruiting study, outside of the free hv/cv glitch stuff which i sort of don't count as a study as much as me just playing around, that i did get through, was to get the effort ratios in terms of unlocking actions. i hoped this would be the same as recruiting effort and i would avoid the much, much harder study where you determine the recruiting model and actions based on reviewing battle outcomes.

i succeeded in getting all the numbers, but without question, the 'unlocking effort' and 'recruiting effort' are not the same. not even close. that theory got blown away *really* quickly. so, throw out your scholarship 100:1, its garbage. i will note, the unlocking effort of a scholarship varies - quite possibly, with the recruits sense of self. although, now that i mention it... the promises did not seem to vary. perhaps it was only ever who took promises, that related to the sense of self thing, and the actual effort doesn't. but it would be weird that only scholarships do so. i'm thinking, its just really dangerous to draw *any* conclusions about recruiting effort, from the unlocking effort stuff, because all the stuff i could test immediately failed.

A CV is worth 2.3HVs????? I always thought it was between 1 and 2.

"throw out your scholarship 100:1, its garbage."



Honestly I kinda suspected this could be true but I didn't get in to it too much. But how did you go about figuring out recruiting effort vs unlocking actions?

Posted by cubcub113 on 5/7/2020 4:05:00 PM (view original):
A CV is worth 2.3HVs????? I always thought it was between 1 and 2.

From what I remember of the previous version, 2.3 sounds right. I kind of doubt this value ratio was adjusted.

For newer folks who might read this, the kind of model TJ uses (whatever you think about the accuracy) can be a helpful guidepost, but the map is not the territory, as they say. The scale is going to change for every team/recruit relationship based on individual preferences and precise prestige modifiers we don’t see. This may or may not be addressing some of the things Gil is talking about. I decided early on that figuring out the exact relationship of actions/effort was not nearly as valuable as it was in the previous version, so I’ve happily relied simply on some prestige ranges and prioritized the preferences (distance and success worth more than sets and style, etc), and gone on my way.

"Hell, I remember one time you and I were in a battle and I increased my minutes promised from 20 to 25 and it knocked you down from High to Moderate. I dunno, maybe you were already on the edge and it's only anecdotal but that's what I remember."

I wonder if the jump in promise minutes isnt linear but exponential. So 10 is lets say 1 recruiting point, 15 is 1.5 recruiting points(increase of .5), 20 is 2.5 recruiting points (increase of 1), and 25 is 5 recruiting points (increase of 5)

I think everyone is seriously undervaluing promises.

I was on a recruit once that did not have a playing time preference.

He was a top 10 stud.

I pumped in 1000 AP and a scholarship offer, was only at Low versus another school at Very High.

I was A+ prestige, the other school A-. Preferences were basically even.

A promised start and 25 minutes got me from Low to Very High in one cycle. Other school still at Very High.

the subsequent 20 HV and campus knocked the other team down to moderate.

I would guess 25 minutes and a start is equal to 15 HV or so.

I have never been in a battle where I didn't offer a start so I truly have 0 idea how much they are worth.

Posted by Sportsbulls on 5/7/2020 2:36:00 PM (view original):
I'm not doubting this or anything, just wondering. Was there a study done or are these numbers guesses?

I did a lot of work on this in 2.0 and when 3 came out. Honestly, these are educated guesses. It used to me a more valuable tool when effort was capped but I think I am pretty close.