Just to refresh my memory.

What’s the perceived game modifier of IQ?

What’s the practice plan needed to almost always get to A+ by senior year?

Please refer to CubCub113 potato videos to more detail.

Pretty sure you need 25 in both OFF/DEF to get to A+. It helps having players with good GPA's, if I remember correctly. Not sure if 3.0 changed that.

Posted by sol_phenom3 on 5/19/2020 8:59:00 PM (view original):
Pretty sure you need 25 in both OFF/DEF to get to A+. It helps having players with good GPA's, if I remember correctly. Not sure if 3.0 changed that.

IQ growth is influenced by HS GPA, WE, and practice minutes. I think the conventional wisdom is that practice minutes matters the most by far and HS GPA then WE are just very small modifiers. I'd guess 23/23 could get to A+ for decent GPAs.

Iguana did a pretty thorough analysis back in the day.

I value IQ a lot. I always go 25/25, which is the max without diminishing results. Most players get to at least A- by senior year.

Not that 25 is a bad idea by any means, but diminishing returns kicks in well before 25. I suspect around 10, as in the 11th minute of practice time in a set is slightly less valuable than the 10th; and by the time you get closer to 20, the discrepancy is pretty noticeable.

Posted by shoe3 on 5/20/2020 1:47:00 AM (view original):
Not that 25 is a bad idea by any means, but diminishing returns kicks in well before 25. I suspect around 10, as in the 11th minute of practice time in a set is slightly less valuable than the 10th; and by the time you get closer to 20, the discrepancy is pretty noticeable.

Disagree completely. But what else is new! Although I understand you're not saying that everybody should set IQ at 10.

I'm a big believer in IQ as well. But I'm just starting to get my feet wet in D1 (just got my 2nd D1 team tonight!). My assumption is that maybe IQ isn't "as big" of a factor at D1? Due to high talent, EEs, things like that? I do not know for sure myself.

But at D2/D3 levels, I feel IQ is what's given me an edge late in NTs. 25/25 for me. Having said that, with higher starting ratings in D1, and less growth to be had, wouldn't 25/25 be a great idea for D1 as well? Or no?

Posted by topdogggbm on 5/20/2020 3:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 5/20/2020 1:47:00 AM (view original):
Not that 25 is a bad idea by any means, but diminishing returns kicks in well before 25. I suspect around 10, as in the 11th minute of practice time in a set is slightly less valuable than the 10th; and by the time you get closer to 20, the discrepancy is pretty noticeable.

Disagree completely. But what else is new! Although I understand you're not saying that everybody should set IQ at 10.

I'm a big believer in IQ as well. But I'm just starting to get my feet wet in D1 (just got my 2nd D1 team tonight!). My assumption is that maybe IQ isn't "as big" of a factor at D1? Due to high talent, EEs, things like that? I do not know for sure myself.

But at D2/D3 levels, I feel IQ is what's given me an edge late in NTs. 25/25 for me. Having said that, with higher starting ratings in D1, and less growth to be had, wouldn't 25/25 be a great idea for D1 as well? Or no?

I don’t know for sure diminishing returns kick in after 10. I do know with 100% certainty they kick in before 20. Running a combo, where I’ve had zone set at 20 and press set at 10, it’s pretty easy to see. If the 20th minute was as valuable as the 10th minute, players starting at F at both should reach a C IQ for zone in half the number of days as it takes to get to C for press. But such a player getting to zone C in 15 days will generally get to press C in ~26. I’ve seen this over and over. You can only see this clearly with players who come in with no knowledge of either set, but I’ve seen enough of them running zone/press in 5 worlds that I’m pretty solid on this.

Posted by topdogggbm on 5/20/2020 3:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 5/20/2020 1:47:00 AM (view original):
Not that 25 is a bad idea by any means, but diminishing returns kicks in well before 25. I suspect around 10, as in the 11th minute of practice time in a set is slightly less valuable than the 10th; and by the time you get closer to 20, the discrepancy is pretty noticeable.

Disagree completely. But what else is new! Although I understand you're not saying that everybody should set IQ at 10.

I'm a big believer in IQ as well. But I'm just starting to get my feet wet in D1 (just got my 2nd D1 team tonight!). My assumption is that maybe IQ isn't "as big" of a factor at D1? Due to high talent, EEs, things like that? I do not know for sure myself.

But at D2/D3 levels, I feel IQ is what's given me an edge late in NTs. 25/25 for me. Having said that, with higher starting ratings in D1, and less growth to be had, wouldn't 25/25 be a great idea for D1 as well? Or no?

shoe is right again here dogg... diminishing returns kick in WAY before 25m, i think we are well past calling that established fact.

that said, i totally agree with doing 25/25 (as usual, i agree with a lot of your takeaways, just not some of the facts along the way). i am a big lover of high iq and have ran 30/30 (or other 60m schmes) for significant periods (high d1 only, its not possible anywhere else, too much of a hit to individual growth). really, i think 20/20 is better for newer coaches - those extra 10 minutes are worth A LOT of individual practice, and really you have to be doing all the right stuff practice planning wise, being really efficient with your minutes, for 25/25 to be the right call IMO, outside of high d1. in high d1 virtually everyone does or should be doing 25/25, or in that ballpark.

i've often done 22/24 off/press and that kind of thing. its really pretty hard to justify the 25/25 when you have tons of individual growth left, i generally think top coaches at any level should be higher than 20/20, but i'm honestly not sure as high as 25/25. probably close though.

For DI I do 27/27 and recruit no sub 50 WE projects. It works pretty well if you're recruiting a ton of EE guys.

Posted by seabreeze on 5/19/2020 10:26:00 PM (view original):
Iguana did a pretty thorough analysis back in the day.

Does this study apply to all divisions, or does it only apply to Div 1? I know it wasn't your study, but curious to know if anyone has an idea

Posted by bruinsfan911 on 5/20/2020 7:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seabreeze on 5/19/2020 10:26:00 PM (view original):
Iguana did a pretty thorough analysis back in the day.

Does this study apply to all divisions, or does it only apply to Div 1? I know it wasn't your study, but curious to know if anyone has an idea

all divisions

Posted by cubcub113 on 5/20/2020 7:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bruinsfan911 on 5/20/2020 7:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seabreeze on 5/19/2020 10:26:00 PM (view original):
Iguana did a pretty thorough analysis back in the day.

Does this study apply to all divisions, or does it only apply to Div 1? I know it wasn't your study, but curious to know if anyone has an idea

all divisions

Awesome, thanks :) This is super helpful!