Hey all! Long time since I've been on the HBD forums. I first want to say, if you have a problem with me or this idea, just don't consider the idea, but no purpose in breaking me or the idea down. I played HBD for a bit and loved the game, but disliked the drama in the community, whereas I love the HD community. I've been playing HD for almost 2 years and have been successful and really enjoy the game. I always thought I'd make an HBD comeback, but I couldn't deal with the "unwritten rules" and subjectivity of rules in the game and the bias that came with the subjectivity.

For instance my team in this world was apparently tanking and my repuation was forever tarnished there, whereas, the former commissioner and a popular owner did nothing wrong. Just an example of my issue with HBD compared to HD.

BUT... my biggest issue was trading and the subjectivity of vetos and which trades would go through. The straw that broke the camels back for me was when I completed a trade once and four people said it was an awful trade and should be vetoed, and then 2 of them said I was getting ripped off and 2 others said the other guy was getting ripped off.

I would propose a world idea with every coach 10+ seasons (so newbies can't get ripped off and people can't collude with alts). There would be no vetos allowed, except for obvious repeated collusion (we would come up with a system to vote for this and offenders would be kicked out of world). Cash trades would be allowed, ect. Every type of creative would be allowed because that is personally for me and I know others, something fun about HBD. The world would also pride itself on having adequate traders so there would be all people who negotiate and respond to trade chats rather than the people who have no interest in trading. Would anyone be interested in joining a world like this?

Well, not really fair to throw the idea up and say, "no purpose in breaking the idea down" (although there is in fact no purpose in breaking you down and in any case I have no problem with you). Especially an interesting idea like this one.

I agree with you that trades are often inappropriately evaluated based on arbitrary rules or arbitrary personal relationships-- but I don't think the solution is to disallow vetoes. In my opinion, one of those arbitrary rules is, "I don't veto a trade unless there's clear collusion" (and then there never is clear collusion). And as a minor point-- you can have 10+ or even 100+ seasons and have no clue what you're doing, and get killed in trades all the time.

Unfortunately, the only solution I know of is to have 32 involved, thoughtful owners evaluate each trade carefully, and veto those that are very lopsided or where one side gets something for nothing (those sorts of trades are more common than you'd think).

There are worlds out there that would work for you. I'm in Capra-- we have allowed all sorts of very creative trades in the few seasons since I've joined. I'm sure there are other worlds like Capra out there. Look around, talk to people in existing worlds, and I bet you'll find a world that is close enough to your utopia that you can rejoin HBD. And if it's Capra, I'd certainly welcome you there.

Posted by dedelman on 5/27/2020 3:00:00 PM (view original):
Well, not really fair to throw the idea up and say, "no purpose in breaking the idea down" (although there is in fact no purpose in breaking you down and in any case I have no problem with you). Especially an interesting idea like this one.

I agree with you that trades are often inappropriately evaluated based on arbitrary rules or arbitrary personal relationships-- but I don't think the solution is to disallow vetoes. In my opinion, one of those arbitrary rules is, "I don't veto a trade unless there's clear collusion" (and then there never is clear collusion). And as a minor point-- you can have 10+ or even 100+ seasons and have no clue what you're doing, and get killed in trades all the time.

Unfortunately, the only solution I know of is to have 32 involved, thoughtful owners evaluate each trade carefully, and veto those that are very lopsided or where one side gets something for nothing (those sorts of trades are more common than you'd think).

There are worlds out there that would work for you. I'm in Capra-- we have allowed all sorts of very creative trades in the few seasons since I've joined. I'm sure there are other worlds like Capra out there. Look around, talk to people in existing worlds, and I bet you'll find a world that is close enough to your utopia that you can rejoin HBD. And if it's Capra, I'd certainly welcome you there.

With your top paragraph, I more meant that people have had rifts with me in the past through the one I mentioned above and because I was an active trader so people get annoyed.

I don't think people should be protected from losing fair trades as long as their as fairness. If there are people that are clearly getting railed on always, it's a different story, but the goal would be to get 32 competent trades and I think as long as an owner is competent they shouldn't be protected.

I will check out some worlds in the future if this gets no traction.

I also like the thought of having 32 owners that enjoy trading because the world would be super fun.

Ultimately the only solution, IMO, is to find yourself in a world where you are in agreement with most or all of the owners about the state of play. Lots of Rules OR No Rules... as long as everyone's in agreement. If you're the one, or one of a few, who's on the outside, you'll make yourself miserable.

Posted by damag on 5/27/2020 3:44:00 PM (view original):
Ultimately the only solution, IMO, is to find yourself in a world where you are in agreement with most or all of the owners about the state of play. Lots of Rules OR No Rules... as long as everyone's in agreement. If you're the one, or one of a few, who's on the outside, you'll make yourself miserable.

Yeah, thats why my goal is to find a lot of like-minded thinkers when it comes to this basically.

I'm a like-minded thinker.

Posted by bjschumacher on 5/27/2020 4:36:00 PM (view original):
I'm a like-minded thinker.

Good to hear. Any others?

The other option besides trying to start this kind of a world is to join Pine Tar. It's a VERY low drama league. I'm the commish, and we roll tomorrow. I think we'll only have 1 or 2 openings.

Very trade active? Cash trades and other trades allowed?