Opinions based on fact? Seems like a pretty good way to form an opinion, but since I don’t get it, please enlighten me.

Posted by rsp777 on 6/1/2020 1:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/1/2020 12:41:00 AM (view original):
I’m not reading through 3 pages of back and forth ********, so I don’t know what has been said in this thread. But since the thread is titled “Atlanta”, I’ll butt in. Both Keisha Lance Bottoms (Atlanta mayor) and Brian Kemp have done a great job and should be a model for other large cities with the protesters. They have allowed protesting while squashing illegal activity. Those two couldn’t be more polar opposite in their political views, but they work together well. They should teach a seminar with mandatory attendance from our national politicians. I’m not sure I share a single political view with Lance-Bottoms, but she truly has done a great job with Atlanta as Kemp has with the state of GA.

As far as George Floyd case, it is evidence that our system works and that the media is extremely, intentionally divisive. Bad cop kills guy. Bad cop probably going to jail for a long time. That’s the way it should be. There is no evidence that this tragedy was racially motivated. It may have been, but it’s dangerous to assume racism without evidence. Statistically, blacks are not targeted by police. Black males commit over 50% of violent crimes, but yet more whites are killed by cops.

People talk about eradicating excessive police force. Excessive police force is not a problem in our country. Stories like this are news because they are rare. To give an example, black on black crime in Chicago does not make the news because it is a common occurrence. With that said, not every cop is going to be a good cop or even a good person for that matter. There is no way to thoroughly vet every potential candidate. We can take preventive measures, such as body cameras and more training, but we will still have some bad cops slip through the system.

Opinions like this are why people have been protesting on the streets for a week. You just DON’T ******* GET IT!

RSP's type of response (endemic to the far left) is exactly why we can't have an intelligent conversation. This was a horrific, criminal act and the perpetrator is in jail, but where is the specific evidence it was racially motivated? Why do the powers at be seem very invested in that we jump to that conclusion? Chauvin was married to a non-white woman. We have seen evidence that he was not a good cop, a history of complaints of excessive force. But is there direct, specific evidence he was racist? Is every interracial act of violence assumed to be racist in nature neccesarily? There may very well be evidence (and if there is it will certainly inform my opinion), but it seems for now most people are going on a gut, emotional feeling informed by their worldview. I.E the system is racist, cops are racist. Not to mention that the police force overall is one of the more diverse professions and absolutely essential to the social order and a peaceful society (have seen people advocating to stop funding the police/get rid of them entirely).

Talk about showing your privilege. Are YOU afraid of going for a jog? Are YOU afraid of using a twenty at a store and ending up DEAD because of it?

Seriously...SHUT THE **** UP. Your opinion is NOT based on fact. It’s based on your IGNORANCE to what black men have to deal with DAILY in trumps lilly-white, wet dream of amerikkka.

And **** your feigned “civility” too. A guy tried kneeling peacefully for the magic song of freedom and you lost your collective ****. Don’t tell them to “start a conversation” now because they tried it your way and were vilified and ignored...AGAIN.

Argue civilly with statistical evidence and not name calling and insults or be redlined.

Folks respond emotionally to video evidence of brutality.
It is true that we don't have the full picture yet and it IS POSSIBLE that this cop was not a racist and was just a genuine ****** who is violent to anyone..............

However, How many white folks do YOU know who, while being retained for using a counterfeit 20 dollar bill to buy something, ended up in handcuffs and then face down in the street with a knee on the back of their neck for NINE minutes?

IF you do NOT get the concept of folks responding to sanctioned violence against them by their own local police force with outrage, fear, and rampant active protests in the street then YOU are truly a large part of the problem.

There is plenty of thoroughly examined academic studies that clearly show inherent racism within OUR societal framework (like the police force!) that has prevented many families of color from realizing the American (myth?) Dream of upward mobility. Sure, some do escape, BUT it is an exception, not a result of some colorblind and fair system. Opportunity only knocks for some, and for many many decades that opportunity is denied to many children of color.

Some of them get angry. Some of them are more than ready to rise up and fight for their OWN shot at real economic freedom here in the land of opportunity.

But white pseudo-intellectuals say the black person need not worry!

“There have been arguments about how widespread of a problem this is. We didn’t have a good estimate about whether it’s a few cases that received a lot of media attention."

Pretty sure the last few days have answered the question, so you can stop reposting this.

Again, I totally agree that racism is a huge problem in this Country and needs more attention. (None of you have any idea how much or how little it effects my family, friends, neighbors and/or co-workers, so please stop pretending you do.) I still have the same two issues with how it's being addressed though: 1) Why do some people feel the need to inject racism into "everything", before they know the facts, or even in spite of the facts. This is counter-productive to their goal. 2) Why does it seem that to some the only black lives that matter are the ones taken by whites (or other non-blacks)? Where is the outrage about the dozens of black lives taken by other blacks in our cities each and every day?

Answers (at least my answers)

1. You are correct. That injection of racism before truth IS counter-productive.
2. It's there. Just under reported. Daily outrage from powerless citizens isn't newsworthy UNTIL it gets violent/controversial...............then, all the sudden, it's newsworthy. Can't blame the powerless for that!

But your questions, from a powerless minority viewpoint, are just more excuses from the privileged willing to just stay silent and/to retain their privilege.

OK, a couple of things.

1. No one is going to be able to prove racist intent in any case. You all will deny any evidence up to the cop literally shouting the N word right before killing George Floyd. If we weren't allowed to protest without evidence that one specific cop was racist, we would never protest. That's a ******* ridiculous argument.
2. Regardless of racist intent, police brutality and militarization IS a problem in this country, and I will defend that. Regardless, EVERY example of police brutality needs to be protested. It's wrong, and it needs to stop. Every one is one too many.
3. Black on black crime is a problem. I would LOVE for us to all have a conversation about what to do about it. Here's the thing though. Y'all don't want to have that conversation. You wouldn't like where it ends up, because the policies that we would propose in response are ones that Republicans have been blocking for decades. Protesting isn't going to solve black on black crime, because criminals are criminals. Police are meant to serve the public, and should be held accountable. You can fire them. That's why we protest the police.
4. I know this is kind of hypocritical coming from me, but I don't give a **** about what you white people have to say about this issue. This isn't about you. This is about POC all around this country voicing their opinions. You can choose not to join them. But what you can't do is silence them.

These protests aren't just about George Floyd. I would go as far as saying that they aren't just about police brutality. They are about the years of systemic racism that POC have had to endure in this country.

To reiterate, I would LOVE to have a fact-based (not emotional) conversation about systemic racism in America. If anyone wants to take me up on that offer, I'll be waiting.

Posted by laramiebob on 6/1/2020 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Answers (at least my answers)

1. You are correct. That injection of racism before truth IS counter-productive.
2. It's there. Just under reported. Daily outrage from powerless citizens isn't newsworthy UNTIL it gets violent/controversial...............then, all the sudden, it's newsworthy. Can't blame the powerless for that!

But your questions, from a powerless minority viewpoint, are just more excuses from the privileged willing to just stay silent and/to retain their privilege.

Please, please, please tell me more about this "under reported" outrage that the "powerless" express daily.
Happen to have any data or an article you can reference, or is that really just an opinion you have formed?

You really think major media covers protests that don't get violent? They don't show the peaceful marching beforehand, they don't show the black people trying to stop white looters, and they don't show the black people picking up the pieces afterwards.

I've been to two protests this week, both with zero violence. Both also had zero police presence. Funny, that.

If the police weren't thugs, these protests wouldn't turn into riots.

Posted by all3 on 6/1/2020 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 6/1/2020 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Answers (at least my answers)

1. You are correct. That injection of racism before truth IS counter-productive.
2. It's there. Just under reported. Daily outrage from powerless citizens isn't newsworthy UNTIL it gets violent/controversial...............then, all the sudden, it's newsworthy. Can't blame the powerless for that!

But your questions, from a powerless minority viewpoint, are just more excuses from the privileged willing to just stay silent and/to retain their privilege.

Please, please, please tell me more about this "under reported" outrage that the "powerless" express daily.
Happen to have any data or an article you can reference, or is that really just an opinion you have formed?

Your attempts to just "defend" (but not support) just get lamer and lamer. Laughably so.

You don't believe that honest folks complain about the violence in their own neighborhoods?
Why? Only white folks actually care about having crime free neighborhoods?
Only white folks try and organize themselves to combat the problem?
Blacks are just too lazy or stupid to give a **** about their kids growing up (and staying alive) and having better lives? Is that it?

I don't live in downtown NYC (but like Boris, I have a friend there! LOL), but it don't take much intelligence to KNOW that folks of ALL colors want a crime free neighborhood. Hell, wasn't that how Obama got his political start....... as a community organizer, or something?

If the media did cover the community gatherings, and attempts to combat inner city violence, we'd ALL know all about it, even YOU!
Even in your cave/cocoon of denial and purposeful ignorance.

There probably are some articles/stories I could refer you to, but I ain't bothering with that. THEY wouldn't have any impact on you. You purposefully LIVE in denial. It's where you drink!
Truth is, those stories don't get published much, or read............they ain't sensational enough.
But when the colored's take to the streets...............NOW, that's coverageable. Good pics!
Easy to get whiteys to read the newspapers then!
And watch Fox!
And re-enforce their inner feelings and fear of all those horrid black men/folks!

Let me ask you just one question.
Try and answer honestly................IF you dare.

Just what do you think the Policemen/women defending a State Capital from protestors armed with rifles, AK-47's, etc. marching at 'em and chanting would do if all those radicals were armed black men..............instead of nutjob teapartiers, and white supremacists???

Black militants, rather than white militants expressing their 2nd Amendment rights by protesting in the street of YOUR Capital?
You really think they'd step aside and keep smiling???
Without fear............ or one simple mistaken act?

Dream on, white brother.

This will be my last post on the subject as I am more interested in reading others opinions than posting my own (I will block rsp so that I can actually read intelligent responses).

First off, I fully support people’s rights to protest. We need to discern between the protesters and the rioters. The people beating old ladies and looting Target and Rodeo Drive are not doing that in the name of justice. They are just dumbasses taking advantage of a situation.

Now to my question. For those that see police brutality as a major problem in the country, what are you hoping to achieve with the protests? What is the end goal? I am asking seriously.

Also, is your position based on actual evidence or is strictly based on anecdote. If it’s based on actual evidence, please provide because all of the studies that I see show that police brutality is not a major problem and that people of color are not unfairly targeted. I would prefer evidence that is based on a multi-variate analysis.

I would prefer to not see answers like “end police violence” as any rational person would agree that is an unrealistic proposition. No matter how strong policies and training are within law enforcement, bad cops are going to slip through the cracks. I am okay with “minimize police violence” as an answer, but please tell me how you think this can be achieved.

I post this with all sincerity as I truly want to know how people that think differently than me formulate their opinions.

P.S. I saw one of Tang’s posts where he basically said that there’s no way to prove racial intent in these cases, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t racist. I agree with you, Tang. I’m just very cautious in assuming intent especially since the far left calls everything they disagree with “racist.” It kind of degrades the term. Hell, someone (won’t name any names) started a thread about me yesterday calling me racist simply because I laid out a thoughtful, fact-based argument that he disagreed with. I have learned that people do this because they are not smart enough to actually refute an argument so they attack character. It’s quite the low-class move.

Now, time to block rsp so that I can read actual opinions and not have to deal with trolls that think 35% of America are racist without a single shred of evidence to support that.