FYI; This backs up my claim that police should not look to incite violence at protests.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/de-escalation-keeps-protesters-and-police-safer-heres-why-departments-respond-with-force-anyway/

Also

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/31/21275996/curfew-george-floyd-protest-los-angeles

Has Biden mentioned Bottoms as a potential candidate?

Not sure. But She meets the profile. Dark enough. No *****, etc.............

Youngish, too.
That's a good thing with senility peaking around the corner.

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/1/2020 5:13:00 PM (view original):
This will be my last post on the subject as I am more interested in reading others opinions than posting my own (I will block rsp so that I can actually read intelligent responses).

First off, I fully support people’s rights to protest. We need to discern between the protesters and the rioters. The people beating old ladies and looting Target and Rodeo Drive are not doing that in the name of justice. They are just dumbasses taking advantage of a situation.

Now to my question. For those that see police brutality as a major problem in the country, what are you hoping to achieve with the protests? What is the end goal? I am asking seriously.

Also, is your position based on actual evidence or is strictly based on anecdote. If it’s based on actual evidence, please provide because all of the studies that I see show that police brutality is not a major problem and that people of color are not unfairly targeted. I would prefer evidence that is based on a multi-variate analysis.

I would prefer to not see answers like “end police violence” as any rational person would agree that is an unrealistic proposition. No matter how strong policies and training are within law enforcement, bad cops are going to slip through the cracks. I am okay with “minimize police violence” as an answer, but please tell me how you think this can be achieved.

I post this with all sincerity as I truly want to know how people that think differently than me formulate their opinions.

P.S. I saw one of Tang’s posts where he basically said that there’s no way to prove racial intent in these cases, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t racist. I agree with you, Tang. I’m just very cautious in assuming intent especially since the far left calls everything they disagree with “racist.” It kind of degrades the term. Hell, someone (won’t name any names) started a thread about me yesterday calling me racist simply because I laid out a thoughtful, fact-based argument that he disagreed with. I have learned that people do this because they are not smart enough to actually refute an argument so they attack character. It’s quite the low-class move.

Now, time to block rsp so that I can read actual opinions and not have to deal with trolls that think 35% of America are racist without a single shred of evidence to support that.

strikeout, you ask what can be done to improve things? While peaceful protest is fine, I'm not sure how much change it will actually cause. Rioting and looting is not the answer. One thing I think would help is to quickly and decisively act to prosecute these officers to the FULL extent of the law. None of this third degree murder crap. I had to look up what third degree murder means - The exact statutory definition of third-degree murder is "[t]he unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated without any design to effect death, by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any felony other than" nineteen enumerated categories of felonies. You kneel on some guys neck for 9 minutes while he cries that he can't breathe it's probably a good bet he is going to die. The other 3 cops who stood by and did nothing should be prosecuted as well.You prosecute these ******* cops than maybe other ******* cops will think twice before stepping over the line. At least some of them will, and if even 1 does, that is improvement.
Also, just out of curiosity, what do you think would happen if it was a black cop kneeling on a white guys neck for 9 minutes while his three blck cop colleagues stood by? I'd bet they'd all be fired and charged with 1st or 2nd degree murder very quickly.

Posted by tangplay on 6/1/2020 5:53:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for putting up a somewhat thoughtful post, strikeout. These forums probably aren't the best place to be asking that question, because we are all white. If you want a really well-informed answer, I would suggest approaching your local chapter of the NAACP or a similar group, or even going to a protest yourself, if it's still happening in your area. The people there will give you better answers than I ever will be able to, because they live that experience.

Here's some ideas I can provide you.

First, a discussion over whether police brutality is a "major problem" is always going to be ridiculous because it's meaningless and inherently based upon semantics. We protest because EVERY instance of police brutality is wrong and deserves to be protested. Ending police violence should be the goal. Yes, it's unlikely, but we have to all agree on a goal before we can minimize a problem. The police are there to protect and serve. They should not be killing.

So here's some policies that I have heard suggested:

• Some sort of community accountability group to monitor the police department and ensure that police are doing their job correctly
• The "good" police officers NEED to call out the bad ones before they kill people. Warning signs should be treated seriously. Police officers who are fired in one branch should NOT be rehired in others. The killer cop in Minneapolis had a history of violence.
• There needs to be a higher bar for who should be allowed into the police force. Some sort of longer education program to weed out the bullies who are in it to get some sort of power. The only people allowed to police the communities should be ones who actually want to help people.
• Demilitarize the ******* police. They shouldn't have weapons from the army. They shouldn't have tear gas, which, from what I have read, is banned in war. Stop asking for ******* tanks and heavy weapons. You don't need them.
• Mandate not only the usage of body cameras, but also that they be turned on at all times.
• When a riot is going on, don't impose a curfew. I have seen zero evidence suggesting that it actually de-escalates tensions, fact is that it does the exact opposite. A curfew gives police the opportunity to wage war on protesters.
• Prosecute the police when they **** up. Already we are seeing the makings of an attempted cover-up in Minneapolis. This is why the community should be vigilant. If we let prosecutors, who work with police, assign justice without pushback they will be lenient. George Zimmermann, for instance, should NEVER have been allowed to walk free.
• Have community meet and greets and outreach programs for the police department. Normalize forums where citizens can make suggestions and voice complaints. This should help get the community more comfortable with police, and likewise make the officers see people as people. Everyone should be able to trust the police.
• Allow. Protests. To. Happen. Without. Creating. Violence. If people start rioting, you can react. If they are kneeling in front of you, you have no right to tear gas them. In some cities, the police are marching WITH protestors. It happened in my city. You don't see riots in those places.
• Don't overpolice minority communities. If you look for trouble, you will find it. I remember when we got CCCP to admit that if he were a police officer, he would racially profile POC because they, as a group commit more crimes. Can we all see how this mindset leads to systemic racism?

I'm sure there are more suggestions that are out there, but these are ones that I have seen often. This just over policing; there are about 50 other policies for overall systemic racism that I would suggest (and I remember having those discussions with you in the past).

Well, Tang. I took your advice. I talked to some of the protesters down the street from my office. The problem was that they were kind of stupid and couldn’t really formulate a coherent answer, which is sad as I think that some of them were UGA students.

That's unfortunate. Obviously you hope that each protester is fully informed on the issue, but that's not going to be the case. I also suggested talking to more prominent black leaders in your community, because they could probably give you better answers.

Go see Mayor Bottoms.

But, and BTW, "kind of stupid" is pretty much the norm amongst the masses, isn't it?

Strikeout

For solutions, this guy provides a ton of actionable things departments can do to reduce their use of force. Note, this isn’t specific to blacks, it’s just reducing shootings in general, which is a good thing too. Here is the thread: https://twitter.com/samswey/status/1180655701271732224?s=21

As for proof that the criminal justice system is racist, here is one study, done by the Trump admin. It’s on sentencing, not police brutality, but it’s pretty compelling.

https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing

Posted by laramiebob on 6/2/2020 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Go see Mayor Bottoms.

But, and BTW, "kind of stupid" is pretty much the norm amongst the masses, isn't it?

I actually do plan on sending her a letter that will probably never reach just telling her to keep up the good work. I would imagine her job makes her want to beat her head through a wall. Never hurts to have a little encouragement.

As far as “kind of stupid,” yep. Especially when you’re dealing 18-22 year olds. I coach Ivy League bound kids with 1550 SAT or higher and they’re even stupid. Smartest stupid kids I’ve ever met.

Posted by tangplay on 6/2/2020 4:26:00 PM (view original):
That's unfortunate. Obviously you hope that each protester is fully informed on the issue, but that's not going to be the case. I also suggested talking to more prominent black leaders in your community, because they could probably give you better answers.

Maybe. I listened to an interview from the head of the NAACP Atlanta chapter. His appeal was completely emotion based. I’m too right-brained for the abstract. I need facts.

By the way, who is this bad_luck? Do we know him? Is he good peoples?

bad_luck might have been the original radical Liberal on this site. Lives in California (not that everyone there is a radical Liberal, but the % has got to be higher than most places). He often didn't play nice with others (not to rsp or bronx's degree), but he's been gone for a while, so maybe he's changed.

I'm gonna object to the phrase "radical liberal"

object all you want, tangy....won't stop all3 (or anyone else) from saying it.

It's just kinda funny that most Americans have no idea what liberalism, social democracy, socialism, and communism actually are.