Posted by tangplay on 6/7/2020 3:35:00 PM (view original):
Stop lights, schools, and police stations serve a public utility in a way that monuments don't. There is no slippery slope. Destroying a monument doesn't hurt anyone.

Regardless of who it hurts or doesn't hurt, it is still illegal. Don't like the law? Get it changed. Until then it is a law.

Your argument is "It's wrong because it's illegal." I'm making the argument that it is not wrong, and should not be illegal. You never actually contested my claim.

It's a tad like the old "I'm just doing my job" excuse.

I'm really tired of that one.................. like Waylon said.............. "declaring it's just your job hoss, don't make it right"

Honestly, there really shouldn't be any monuments of white people who were born before the 20th century. They were all racist. Even Abraham Lincoln wanted to start a colony in Liberia and send the freed slaves out of this country. I hope all the monuments are gone soon.

To be fair, I would draw a distinction between people who overwhelmingly did good for the country, and people who overwhelmingly did bad. I don't have an opposition to a Lincoln statue, or a Washington statue.

Posted by coreander on 6/8/2020 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Honestly, there really shouldn't be any monuments of white people who were born before the 20th century. They were all racist. Even Abraham Lincoln wanted to start a colony in Liberia and send the freed slaves out of this country. I hope all the monuments are gone soon.

Great generalization - "They were all racist." Those are the exact kind of comments that people of any color should NOT be making. People are individuals and should not be spoken about as groups. Making assumptions about anyone because of their skin color is the very definition of racist.

Washington fought to maintain the institution of slavery, the British offered to release slaves if they fought against the Americans during the Revolutionary war.. The New York Times has a great series called the 1619 project that shows how this country was founded on racism and our founding fathers only fought so they could preserve that institution. I do not think morally bad people should have monuments in their honor.

Is there any room to exceptions due to the overton window? I don't know where Washington would be, but Lincoln personally was absolutely at the progressive end of what was acceptable at the time in terms of slavery.

It's probably not reasonable to expect our historical figures to be exceptional and think about race in the way we do today, because if they did, they wouldn't have ever gotten into positions of power.

There's a fundamental difference between fighting for America and fighting against it. You probably won't be able to convince me that Washington hurt America more than he helped.

(But yes, it is probably fair to say that every politician in the 1700's and early 1800's would be considered racist today)

Maybe all of the historical figures we celebrate should not be rich straight white men? Washington certainly helped found America, but that does not answer the question if founding America was even a good thing at all. It is nice to have a place to talk about this stuff though, and I look forward to meeting the people on these forums. I just made my first team last night!

" . . . but that does not answer the question if founding America was even a good thing at all."

Wow, just wow. With comments like that, you'll fit in great around here. Welcome to the site.

Do you mind if I ask you what your political leanings are? Like, what you identify yourself as?

God, I hope you are a socialist. It'll make me look a lot better.

Politically speaking, social justice is the most important issue for me. I identify as an anti-racist first, a feminist second, and a Democratic Socialist third. I voted for Bernie Sanders in my state's primary election. I think Joe Biden has a very bad track record with women and communities of color, but I will support him in the election against Donald Trump. In years past, I would not vote for someone like Biden (moderate Democrats have swung to the right recently), but this election is too important and Trump is too awful. That is a very general overview, and I am glad to have found a place to talk politics (and maybe baseball too!).

Nice, it's about time someone to the left of me showed up.

I just hope it votes like it talks here................no offense meant at all.