Posted by wylie715 on 6/8/2020 7:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by laramiebob on 6/8/2020 7:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wylie715 on 6/8/2020 6:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by laramiebob on 6/8/2020 4:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by coreander on 6/8/2020 2:58:00 PM (view original):
No big deal, but you really shouldn't use the term Tonto. It can be construed as a slur towards Indigenous Peoples.
No it cain't. Not by those that know about it.
You see, I live along Tonto Creek. Under the Tonto Rim. For real. It's God's Country.
Please don't move here. It's way to harsh for human habitation.
Tonto is a word given to the Apaches that roamed these parts. It's Mexican (Spanish?), I believe for fool.
The "chief" that this clan of Apaches followed was called Del Shay by the whites in these parts. I don't have time at this minute to look up his actual Apache name. We couldn't pronounce it anyway.......it would even be tough to spell in English.
Never the less they were termed this (Tonto) by the settlers (and the army) because they would not give up their way of life and "come in" to the fort (Camp Verde) and surrender to the white man's rule. Thus, they were "fools". This band/clan of proud people were actually the very last "wild" Apaches to surrender to the inevitable, to whatever extent they were actually able to.
Their favorite rancheria locale still exists (to some extent) unspoiled by modern times as it is so inaccessible, even today.
It's only about 15 - 20 miles from my house, but there is only one VERY TOUGH road in. Passable only by horse, or ATV with an experienced rider and HELP from another rider (or more than one). The "road" circles around a mountain and drops into Del shay basin from above (HIGH above, the road drops a couple thousand feet in the last 2 or 3 miles). It's literally a circuitous route of about 30 + miles to go 8 miles. There is a trail (walk and horse ONLY--not even an ATV can make it thru---too narrow) of 8 miles that goes (fairly) directly in to the stronghold but I haven't walked it yet!
I tried the road about a month ago but the guy I was with wouldn't go any further so we had to turn around.
I will admit it was getting VERY tough. Life risking for some units.
Anyway, long story to let you know I know EXACTLY what a tonto is and it has NOTHING to do with any insulting reference to ANY Apache anywhere.
Actually, to me, it is similar to the word "Chiracahua" when viewed in the Apache context. A word of status. Pride.
Otherwise it's just a term meaning fool.
And thus extremely appropriate for our POTUS AND his followers.
sorry, Bob..but you are not a native American, so it is not up to you to say what is a slur to a native American. Also, calling Trump a tonto makes it even more of a slur.
BULLSHIT! No matter who makes this claim!
I LIVE 17 miles from the Tonto Apache Indian Reservation.
I've had the privilege of being invited to a Sunrise Ceremony, (on the Reservation) was one of a very few whites in attendance.
I consider it an honor to have been invited and was blessed to be there. It's a rather long and strenuous ceremony for the maiden.
It's a sacred event.
The Tonto Apache own/operate a casino, own the local Sonic, a convenience store/Gas station and other businesses in and around the largest town in the area. They contribute to civic organizations, the school district regularly, etc. They're one of the largest employers and are a part of our community.
The casino is named the Mazatzal casino. The local Mountain range is named the Mazatzals.
The word/name is an English approximation/spelling of the actual Apache word for the locale.
The Tonto Apache tribe consists of a handful/score of families. Fewer than 300 people IF I'm not mistaken.
I know some of them.
IF you had the balls to tell ANY of my Tonto Apache friends that when they proudly refer to themselves as a Tonto Apache they are slurring themselves.............
well, you'd be lucky (with some of the wimmun) to not get staked to an ant hill and dribbled with mesquite oil............. until you relented and apologized for the insult!
I, myself, would be proud to be so fortunate as to be in one of their families and be a Tonto Apache.
Sometimes ignorance is just bliss.
Other times spouting misinformation (no matter how loudly or often!) thru rank ignorance is harmful and divisive especially NOW when the attempt is to inject RACE into the usage of, essentially, the word "fool". The word tonto when used without the Apache context means fool.
There is no race connotation involved at all.
Unless you're a doofuss leftist looking to inject RACE into everything in order to bully everybody else into their viewpoint.
The backlash to this behaviour GAVE US Trump as POTUS.
So did the idiocy on display here..............by a whole lot of voters!
Okay, Bob...you go ask 1000 natives Americans (who are not "tonto Apaches") and I'd be willing to bet the majority of them would consider being called a Tonto a slur. Also, if you respect the Tonto Apaches so much, why would you want to insult them by calling Trump a Tonto?
Some Jewish people might not be insulted if you call hem a ****. (Not hat I know any who wouldn't) I'd damn sure be insulted and feel slurred.
This is crazy!
There is tonto............. which means fool.
And there ARE the Tonto Apache, as well as a whole lot of place names named Tonto.
They are NOT the same thing.
You could call a Nez Perce to his face a tonto. He MIGHT know enough to take offense and punch you IF he knows enough Spanish.
You could also just as correctly and simply call the same Nez Perce a fool. He'd know how to take it.
React accordingly.
I refer to TRUMP as a tonto, quite purposefully.
IF'n I believed him to be the devil, rather than just a fool, I'd call him el Diablo.
Who the freak would I be racitizing then? Does satan have a lobby, too.
The PC have gone totally NUTS!