Posted by shoe3 on 6/9/2020 4:38:00 PM (view original):
Excellent job of ignoring everything that has been said and just making up your own narrative doggg. I can see you’ve learned from the worst.

If the system can be made to be more user friendly so this thing - that you notice happens a lot - doesn’t happen to people anymore, without any complications, without any negative effect on other users, resulting in more revenue for WIS, and more user satisfaction... why oppose it? Why settle for a product that produces that kind of unintended consequence so often, when there are numerous easy and uncomplicated fixes?

+1 to paragraph #2.

This is exactly what we're pretty much unanimously agreeing on regardless of wronoj's individual situation or the previous situations where coaches have "forgotten" to renew.

The renewal process can be improved regardless of "personal responsibility" on the part of users (who are clients, by the way - try to work in sales and blame the client for "lacking personal responsibility"...you won't have a job for very long). The amount of lift/work involved to simplify the renewal process and make it easier for people to fork over cash to WIS/SportHub seems fairly minimal. The outcome of that change appears to be better user retention and higher profits for WIS.

Also a secondary outcome of the above is we have fewer of these threads / less opportunities for debates on whether the "old coach" or "new coach" is deserving of more or less sympathy.

I'm not sure what anyone's issue with the above is...

Well, Robinhood410 was gracious about going back to Ole Miss, and CS was on top of it and allowed me to get back to my old gig.

thanks for the support and feedback. Now let’s see if I can prove I belong...

Posted by shoe3 on 6/9/2020 5:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cbriese on 6/9/2020 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by shoe3 on 6/9/2020 3:35:00 PM (view original):

Every single method HD uses to “warn” is very easy to ignore or forget. Even Gridiron Dynasty gets this one closer to right, blasting a message on the team’s front page. But warning is not the user friendly approach, nor is it really the simplest.

The simplest and most obvious is just let an unemployed user re-up with the old team at any point up until the job decisions start processing. No reason why other applicants need to complicate the process at this point. There is literally no harm or downside, now that the resource loophole has been fixed. Log in and notice finally that you missed the end of the season for whatever valid or invalid reason, just click a box, purchase a season or load credits if you have to, and done. Simple. Alternately, you could just as simply move the coach to “unemployed” status directly after the season finishes instead of waiting a day, and give them that day to renew. I’m willing to bet a whole lot that for the vast majority of cases where coaches missed the renewal, they realized the mistake when they logged in and found the team and world gone. This is even better and probably simpler than the previous tweak, because other coaches don’t even waste any time or applications on it.

You cannot allow the team owner to re-up ant any point up until the job decisions start processing. I may apply only to Kansas, as I would much rather get the Jayhawks than my second choice, Illinois. The first job cycle processes, and lo and behold, the previous owner now has Kansas and someone else (with not as good a resume as me) has picked up Illinois. I'm ****** now because I went to bed thinking Kansas was actually in play, and I missed my shot at Illinois.

The second suggestion, of setting coaches to "unemployed" a day early, is certainly workable.

Sure you can. People apply for jobs they don’t get all the time. No one has a reasonable expectation to get a job they apply for. You aren’t ******, you have the same job you started with. And if you really have to leave that job, apply for Illinois at the same time. Lots of approaches, but importantly, you aren’t dealing with losing anything you have or have worked for here. The main reason I’m highly critical of seble (the CS person I assume was seble anyway) is that they led with “impossible”, which is a lie - if it’s possible to manually switch users at the end, it’s possible to do it at any point; followed that with “we have to be fair” which again, you’re talking about “fairness” to someone who has no reasonable expectation to any outcome, and ignoring fairness to someone who has spent years and hundreds of dollars on your product; and wrapped up with “well maybe you should have just bought a 10-pack for this type of scenario.” Which is generally the approach a customer service technician takes right before getting sworn at and losing a customer for good.

I’m glad you find the second workable. I don’t really care either way. What I want is for this to happen less often, so we can stop fighting over who is complaining, and who is “taking personal responsibility.”

i disagree with the take that the person who already applied to the job has no standing here. i think they clearly have a standing. they are making decisions based on an assumption about how the process works, and when exceptions are made, it affects both the outcomes and decision making for that coach. a coach who was leading for that job and withheld another application because he thought he had a good shot at the first job is doubly affected here - he could end up not only losing the first job (the one where someone forgot) but also the second.

i totally disagree that person has no standing. i just feel like most of the coaches in that position are willing to forgo their claims to help someone who made an honest mistake - although clearly the volume of these issues is going to undermine that in the long run, as seems to be happening right now...

Posted by cbriese on 6/9/2020 5:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/9/2020 5:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cbriese on 6/9/2020 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by shoe3 on 6/9/2020 3:35:00 PM (view original):

Every single method HD uses to “warn” is very easy to ignore or forget. Even Gridiron Dynasty gets this one closer to right, blasting a message on the team’s front page. But warning is not the user friendly approach, nor is it really the simplest.

The simplest and most obvious is just let an unemployed user re-up with the old team at any point up until the job decisions start processing. No reason why other applicants need to complicate the process at this point. There is literally no harm or downside, now that the resource loophole has been fixed. Log in and notice finally that you missed the end of the season for whatever valid or invalid reason, just click a box, purchase a season or load credits if you have to, and done. Simple. Alternately, you could just as simply move the coach to “unemployed” status directly after the season finishes instead of waiting a day, and give them that day to renew. I’m willing to bet a whole lot that for the vast majority of cases where coaches missed the renewal, they realized the mistake when they logged in and found the team and world gone. This is even better and probably simpler than the previous tweak, because other coaches don’t even waste any time or applications on it.

You cannot allow the team owner to re-up ant any point up until the job decisions start processing. I may apply only to Kansas, as I would much rather get the Jayhawks than my second choice, Illinois. The first job cycle processes, and lo and behold, the previous owner now has Kansas and someone else (with not as good a resume as me) has picked up Illinois. I'm ****** now because I went to bed thinking Kansas was actually in play, and I missed my shot at Illinois.

The second suggestion, of setting coaches to "unemployed" a day early, is certainly workable.

Sure you can. People apply for jobs they don’t get all the time. No one has a reasonable expectation to get a job they apply for. You aren’t ******, you have the same job you started with. And if you really have to leave that job, apply for Illinois at the same time. Lots of approaches, but importantly, you aren’t dealing with losing anything you have or have worked for here. The main reason I’m highly critical of seble (the CS person I assume was seble anyway) is that they led with “impossible”, which is a lie - if it’s possible to manually switch users at the end, it’s possible to do it at any point; followed that with “we have to be fair” which again, you’re talking about “fairness” to someone who has no reasonable expectation to any outcome, and ignoring fairness to someone who has spent years and hundreds of dollars on your product; and wrapped up with “well maybe you should have just bought a 10-pack for this type of scenario.” Which is generally the approach a customer service technician takes right before getting sworn at and losing a customer for good.

I’m glad you find the second workable. I don’t really care either way. What I want is for this to happen less often, so we can stop fighting over who is complaining, and who is “taking personal responsibility.”

But here is the basic disagreement: You are so wrapped up in your "fairness to the original owner" that you completely ignore the guy who earned the job promotion after applying for the open team. The guy that played by the rules. The guy that never had to get down on his knees to customer support and beg for his job back. The guy that consistently bought the 10-pack because he never wanted to be in this situation. You completely ignore what is fair to that guy because you are, sadly, only hyper-focused on what is fair to you. There is a chain of people here potentially involved, but you don't seem to see that. That is truly sad.

Perhaps I've missed it, but I don't recall Poopshoe sending messages to Seble, posting on the HD forums clamouring for change any other time someone has posted something like this. It was only until it happened to HIM that it's now a big issue and not fair.

Posted by wronoj on 6/9/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):
Well, Robinhood410 was gracious about going back to Ole Miss, and CS was on top of it and allowed me to get back to my old gig.

thanks for the support and feedback. Now let’s see if I can prove I belong...

I’m very glad it worked out for you differently. I hope this is an indication that seble understands why it’s a problem, and will move to fix it on the structural end.

Posted by wronoj on 6/9/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):
Well, Robinhood410 was gracious about going back to Ole Miss, and CS was on top of it and allowed me to get back to my old gig.

thanks for the support and feedback. Now let’s see if I can prove I belong...

All's well that ends well. Let's lock this thread, and nobody ever forget to renew again.

“i just feel like most of the coaches in that position are willing to forgo their claims to help someone who made an honest mistake - although clearly the volume of these issues is going to undermine that in the long run, as seems to be happening right now...”

This is why above all, fix the structural problem. You can disagree with my assessment that only a complete ******* tool would complain about fairness for not getting a job he applied to when it goes to the previous owner who did not mean to give it up. Or perhaps you are just saying that there are some complete ******* tools who play this game, and their interests have at least *some* standing, in which case... fair enough.

But either way, at least two other ideas have been proposed to fix the problem simply and easily without even getting into all that.

So again the question, why would people rather go on complaining about the complaining of others, instead of just making the system more user friendly so this doesn’t happen anymore?

Posted by wronoj on 6/9/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):
Well, Robinhood410 was gracious about going back to Ole Miss, and CS was on top of it and allowed me to get back to my old gig.

thanks for the support and feedback. Now let’s see if I can prove I belong...

Good for you wronoj, glad you got your old gig back! Kudos to Robin as well for his willingness to work with you.

Posted by wronoj on 6/9/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):
Well, Robinhood410 was gracious about going back to Ole Miss, and CS was on top of it and allowed me to get back to my old gig.

thanks for the support and feedback. Now let’s see if I can prove I belong...

That’s great news!

I vote that Top Dogg has a weekly post every Monday reminding everyone to check their renewal status

Posted by dirtycajun on 6/8/2020 7:14:00 PM (view original):
Josh come back to the mountain west. Zero expectations and BYU is just sitting there.

Yes! C'mon back! CSU is a free win.

It looks like we at least avoided the daisy chain of Ole Miss being taken, then having to deal with another user, etc etc.

Perhaps that came from seble learning from past experience?

Posted by shoe3 on 6/9/2020 6:25:00 PM (view original):
“i just feel like most of the coaches in that position are willing to forgo their claims to help someone who made an honest mistake - although clearly the volume of these issues is going to undermine that in the long run, as seems to be happening right now...”

This is why above all, fix the structural problem. You can disagree with my assessment that only a complete ******* tool would complain about fairness for not getting a job he applied to when it goes to the previous owner who did not mean to give it up. Or perhaps you are just saying that there are some complete ******* tools who play this game, and their interests have at least *some* standing, in which case... fair enough.

But either way, at least two other ideas have been proposed to fix the problem simply and easily without even getting into all that.

So again the question, why would people rather go on complaining about the complaining of others, instead of just making the system more user friendly so this doesn’t happen anymore?

well, i think people do that because they feel like the current scheme of notifications is sufficient and the core of the problem is the people forgetting, not the system. i don't think the system is so bad that such a stance makes those folks unreasonable. i definitely wouldn't call someone a tool for not forgoing their standing there - i look at in the opposite - folks who do are doing a favor.

i kinda was thinking, like, i don't have this problem elsewhere, like other sites & services - but then i realized, i actually have had this problem tons of times. its just that the consequences are less severe.

in my youth, i paid monthly bill bimonthly because i knew i'd get a grace period at least that long. my internet and cable would get turned off from time to time, but it was nothing that a 10 minute phone call didn't fix. granted - some of those calls were to time warner or spectrum, and meet the legal definition of torture... but that is a separate issue. reflecting back, all the times i got those 'hey we are about to turn you off' knocks and such, i'd have lost my HD team 100 times, if that was the consequence. i have temporarily lost just about every service i've ever subscribed to for a meaningful time... but never HD.

until i had kids none of those things broached the impact of losing my favorite HD team in a time when i had such a thing. so i just make sure i don't. but nobody is perfect, people can forget or have a season and fail to recognize how quickly they could consume the 2nd, or whatever else. so, i'm really not sure what the answer is. i do feel like 1) completely blaming individuals and 2) completely blaming the system represent the same silly, understanding-free way looking at things. which is why i disagree with so much said here even though i am pretty on the fence about the issue myself.

Posted by shoe3 on 6/9/2020 6:25:00 PM (view original):
“i just feel like most of the coaches in that position are willing to forgo their claims to help someone who made an honest mistake - although clearly the volume of these issues is going to undermine that in the long run, as seems to be happening right now...”

This is why above all, fix the structural problem. You can disagree with my assessment that only a complete ******* tool would complain about fairness for not getting a job he applied to when it goes to the previous owner who did not mean to give it up. Or perhaps you are just saying that there are some complete ******* tools who play this game, and their interests have at least *some* standing, in which case... fair enough.

But either way, at least two other ideas have been proposed to fix the problem simply and easily without even getting into all that.

So again the question, why would people rather go on complaining about the complaining of others, instead of just making the system more user friendly so this doesn’t happen anymore?

For the record, if Robinhood410 has said he didn’t want to leave KU, I’d have been fine with it, and it wouldn’t have meant he’s a tool. If he’d spent 30 seasons trying nothing more than to get to Kansas, and this was his chance, fair and square, ok.

I would be disappointed, but mostly in myself.

Posted by wronoj on 6/9/2020 7:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/9/2020 6:25:00 PM (view original):
“i just feel like most of the coaches in that position are willing to forgo their claims to help someone who made an honest mistake - although clearly the volume of these issues is going to undermine that in the long run, as seems to be happening right now...”

This is why above all, fix the structural problem. You can disagree with my assessment that only a complete ******* tool would complain about fairness for not getting a job he applied to when it goes to the previous owner who did not mean to give it up. Or perhaps you are just saying that there are some complete ******* tools who play this game, and their interests have at least *some* standing, in which case... fair enough.

But either way, at least two other ideas have been proposed to fix the problem simply and easily without even getting into all that.

So again the question, why would people rather go on complaining about the complaining of others, instead of just making the system more user friendly so this doesn’t happen anymore?

For the record, if Robinhood410 has said he didn’t want to leave KU, I’d have been fine with it, and it wouldn’t have meant he’s a tool. If he’d spent 30 seasons trying nothing more than to get to Kansas, and this was his chance, fair and square, ok.

I would be disappointed, but mostly in myself.

That's a great attitude to have. Once you mentioned that RH was the other coach willing to work with you, I felt you had a pretty good chance at getting re-instated at Kansas. He's a good guy, no question.