Posted by tangplay on 6/9/2020 8:24:00 PM (view original):
If you get a parking ticket and refuse to pay a fine, you went to jail for refusing to pay a fine, not a parking ticket violation.

The C-16 bill doesn't reduce freedom of speech. Do you disagree with the other element of C-16 (restricting calling for the genocide of trans people), C-16 as a whole, which extended similar protections to race, gender, and sexuality, yelling "fire" in a theatre, saying you have a bomb on a plane, etc. etc.

We accept reasonable limits on freedom of speech every day.

Again, all of this is assuming that trans people would actually take this to court for simply misgendering, which they absolutely would not. Or at least, many would, but somehow forgot to in four years.

I covered your first paragraph in another post.

I’ve already said that I we have had laws that restricted speech, but we have never had laws that compelled speech. Two totally different things.

Nope. C-16 doesn't compel speech. You aren't forced to call someone anything. You are restricted (in theory) from repeatedly calling them a gender identity that they don't like. Even then, you likely won't be punished.

If someone wants to be referred to as "zid" or whatever, you don't have to call them that pronoun. You can say "they" or some other gender-neutral term.

I'd really like to hear you spell out the difference.

What is "misgendering"?
Never heard of that legal term.
Please define it.

Posted by tangplay on 6/9/2020 8:26:00 PM (view original):
Comparing C-16 to Stalin and Hitler is ridiculous and you know it. C-16 is a good bill, and isn't going to send you to jail for misgendering. If you disagree with C-16, you disagree with every restriction on free speech. At that point, your issue doesn't stop with C-16, and has nothing to do with trans people.

History tells us it’s not ridiculous. Like I said, C16 does more than restrict speech, it compels speech.

I agree with your last sentence. My issue definitely has nothing to do with trans people. People are free to identify however they like. Remember, I’m a libertarian. You live your life and I will live mine. The problem with the bill is a serious encroachment issue. My whole argument deals with freedoms. I stated that in response to UofA.

We’re getting circular at this point and I have work to do, so I would love to hear your response, but I may not respond.

I agree that we are going in circles. I stand by my statement that I don't see how C-16 compels speech; it doesn't force you to do anything.

I'll let the others around here decide for themselves whether C-16 is a serious infringement on freedom of speech. If there ever is an example of someone being locked up for misgendering, I'll eat my words and agree with you that the bill needs to be rewritten. I think I've made a strong case that this example will never happen.

Thanks for the discussion.

Posted by tangplay on 6/9/2020 8:31:00 PM (view original):
Nope. C-16 doesn't compel speech. You aren't forced to call someone anything. You are restricted (in theory) from repeatedly calling them a gender identity that they don't like. Even then, you likely won't be punished.

If someone wants to be referred to as "zid" or whatever, you don't have to call them that pronoun. You can say "they" or some other gender-neutral term.

I'd really like to hear you spell out the difference.

You answered it in your own post. You literally just gave me approved options that I may call someone. I hope you can see the difference. It is literally a case of you may use these words that we have approved.

Let me ask you, if the Don gave you a list of words that you had to chose from or you face a fine or go to jail, how would you respond?

Its easy to be okay with something like C16 when you agree with the premise. What happens when someone is in power that you don’t agree with?

By the way, I’m not sure I’ve ever told you guys about my hobby. I highly doubt it’s anyone on here’s taste, but I enjoy doing it.

https://youtu.be/Zh5LJgZrxBg

My verse in this one starts at 3:00.

This was better than I thought it would be.

I was expecting this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kppx4bzfAaE

Tear Drops

Took for granted

The Underdog

Moonshine Music

Posted by tangplay on 6/9/2020 9:24:00 PM (view original):
This was better than I thought it would be.

I was expecting this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kppx4bzfAaE

People make fun of me for it, but I’ve always enjoyed rap. I have about 50 different songs on YouTube and if you want to donate about 15 cents to me, you can buy my albums on google play. That’s my plug for the evening.

I never made fun of you. Doesn't matter.There's always tomorrow. You go rap boy.

This is quite literally the dumbest discussion I've ever seen.

Just don't be a dick. Its pretty easy.

Posted by laramiebob on 6/9/2020 8:33:00 PM (view original):
What is "misgendering"?
Never heard of that legal term.
Please define it.

Its being a dick. Don't be a dick.

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/9/2020 8:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Uofa2 on 6/9/2020 8:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/9/2020 8:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/9/2020 8:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/9/2020 7:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/9/2020 7:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/9/2020 7:54:00 PM (view original):
Let me run a scenario by you. I have to go in front of the human rights tribunal for misgendering someone. I am cited and refuse to pay the fine. Do you not think they will imprison me for that?

If only there was a single case of this happening in the four years since the Amendment. Oops. Looks like criminal scholars AND empirics disagree with you on this one.

You said that you’ve read the bill. I have as well. Assuming you are telling the truth, you can agree that this is possibility based on the wording of the bill. I can’t speak on whether this scenario has played out yet or not, but I hope you can see how even the possibility is dangerous.

It's not a possibility. No one has even come close to being arrested (as far as I know, no one has even had to pay a fine for misgendering). Legal experts disagree that someone will ever be arrested.

You don't have an argument. It's not poorly written, at least more than any other law.

This was a bullshit narrative started by Jordan Peterson to get right wingers fearful and upset. What guitarguy said is just a lie.

Even Cossman’s analysis says that people may be fined or have to go to training. What happens if I refuse? I go to jail, right?

What happens if you refuse to pay a parking ticket or go to a driving class?

You go to jail. Proves my point exactly. Canada now has a law that says that if you don’t use their dictated speech, you receive the same punishment. Please tell me you can see how this is bad.

Yeah, if you don't pay a fine or go to a class like a dick are you serious? DONT. BE. A. DICK. This is basic kindergarten ****.