Posted by emy1013 on 6/9/2020 7:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wronoj on 6/9/2020 7:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/9/2020 6:25:00 PM (view original):
“i just feel like most of the coaches in that position are willing to forgo their claims to help someone who made an honest mistake - although clearly the volume of these issues is going to undermine that in the long run, as seems to be happening right now...”

This is why above all, fix the structural problem. You can disagree with my assessment that only a complete ******* tool would complain about fairness for not getting a job he applied to when it goes to the previous owner who did not mean to give it up. Or perhaps you are just saying that there are some complete ******* tools who play this game, and their interests have at least *some* standing, in which case... fair enough.

But either way, at least two other ideas have been proposed to fix the problem simply and easily without even getting into all that.

So again the question, why would people rather go on complaining about the complaining of others, instead of just making the system more user friendly so this doesn’t happen anymore?

For the record, if Robinhood410 has said he didn’t want to leave KU, I’d have been fine with it, and it wouldn’t have meant he’s a tool. If he’d spent 30 seasons trying nothing more than to get to Kansas, and this was his chance, fair and square, ok.

I would be disappointed, but mostly in myself.

That's a great attitude to have. Once you mentioned that RH was the other coach willing to work with you, I felt you had a pretty good chance at getting re-instated at Kansas. He's a good guy, no question.

frankly any other attitude strikes me as ridiculous - no doubt a guy who wins a job and gives it up is the hero of the story - and if they choose not to, they shouldn't be condemned. but yeah, its a good one :)

Posted by wronoj on 6/9/2020 7:18:00 PM (view original):
It looks like we at least avoided the daisy chain of Ole Miss being taken, then having to deal with another user, etc etc.

Perhaps that came from seble learning from past experience?

Maybe quit while you're ahead dude.

Posted by Benis on 6/9/2020 6:38:00 PM (view original):
I vote that Top Dogg has a weekly post every Monday reminding everyone to check their renewal status

I will send out a forum reminder to all, each time a Champion is crowned and I update my championship threads here... "congrats to coach X for winning a title. Oh and to all you who play in Y world, it's time to renew! Don't forget!"

Kidding obviously! But I end with this..... I'm happy for you wronoj. Longtime coach, happy to deal with the consequences either way. You've been the biggest adult in the room with this situation. So bravo. But to the HD community, whom seem to ALL be decent people, i leave you with this thought..... Whatever happened to looking in the mirror, accepting blame, and saying "what could I do better? ME"...... I try to preach that to everyone I know. It's not always someone else's fault. Or "the system sucks" or whatever. I complain a lot about my 1-16 roll streak. But it's all in fun. Instead of pointing fingers and blaming the system for something that WE can control, just bite the bullet sometimes! If MORE people are making this mistake more often recently, well guess what?..... MORE people can say "hey, I screwed up." And more respect would come. Rather than saying "this process isn't right. They only remind us 4 times instead of 6". Discussing this is comedy in my opinion. Let's just do better people!

Posted by wronoj on 6/9/2020 7:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/9/2020 6:25:00 PM (view original):
“i just feel like most of the coaches in that position are willing to forgo their claims to help someone who made an honest mistake - although clearly the volume of these issues is going to undermine that in the long run, as seems to be happening right now...”

This is why above all, fix the structural problem. You can disagree with my assessment that only a complete ******* tool would complain about fairness for not getting a job he applied to when it goes to the previous owner who did not mean to give it up. Or perhaps you are just saying that there are some complete ******* tools who play this game, and their interests have at least *some* standing, in which case... fair enough.

But either way, at least two other ideas have been proposed to fix the problem simply and easily without even getting into all that.

So again the question, why would people rather go on complaining about the complaining of others, instead of just making the system more user friendly so this doesn’t happen anymore?

For the record, if Robinhood410 has said he didn’t want to leave KU, I’d have been fine with it, and it wouldn’t have meant he’s a tool. If he’d spent 30 seasons trying nothing more than to get to Kansas, and this was his chance, fair and square, ok.

I would be disappointed, but mostly in myself.

Sure. I don’t disagree at all. The guy who ended up with KU in Phelan was the same. He was more than willing to do a straight switch with me. But CS wouldn’t assist that for me until the “daisy chain” worked itself out, and he wasn’t interested in taking other jobs. He’s not a tool.

I’m talking about theoretical guys who would complain about fairness if the system was different, and allowed coaches to renew after applications, but before a decision is made. The guys bashing you for even bringing this up in the forums are the ones talking about fairness. I’m talking about CS decisions and user satisfaction. The reality is that they can easily tweak the system to prevent this from being an issue. But they don’t want to. They’d rather sell 10-packs. They should just be upfront about that.

“If MORE people are making this mistake more often recently, well guess what?..... MORE people can say "hey, I screwed up."

Or they could fix the problem, WIS would make more money, users would be more happy, and you’d rarely see anyone post about it in the forum.

So again, why exactly are you opposed to fixing it, when there is such an easy and obvious fix?

“so, i'm really not sure what the answer is. i do feel like 1) completely blaming individuals and 2) completely blaming the system represent the same silly, understanding-free way looking at things. which is why i disagree with so much said here even though i am pretty on the fence about the issue myself.”

As stated above, you’ve kind of misrepresented what I’ve been saying. I’m not interested in casting any aspersions on folks who don’t want to give up a team they’ve already got by the jobs process. I want the system fixed so this doesn’t happen to people anymore, so no one has to be asked to give up jobs they’ve already won. Can you understand the difference?

I blame seble in my situation because of the lies, the condescending lies, and the **** you approach to customer service he took with me when I kept pressing him on the lies. I took responsibility for my mistake, and neither begged, nor chided any player involved. I agree with seabreeze on one important thing, it’s ridiculous that this keeps coming up in the forums. People shouldn’t lose teams they’ve built because of a missed schedule date. It’s 2020. Better, easy, simple fixes have been proposed. Opposing *those* because you want people to keep losing teams due to mistakes is what would make someone a tool.

Posted by shoe3 on 6/10/2020 1:14:00 AM (view original):
“If MORE people are making this mistake more often recently, well guess what?..... MORE people can say "hey, I screwed up."

Or they could fix the problem, WIS would make more money, users would be more happy, and you’d rarely see anyone post about it in the forum.

So again, why exactly are you opposed to fixing it, when there is such an easy and obvious fix?

I'm not against "fixing" anything. But what needs to be fixed??????? More reminders?! Do they need to slap you in the face or dump water on you to get you to remember? THEY OFFER AN AUTO RENEW BUTTON. It's fixed! And I'm sure that's the way they feel about it

Keep in mind, you're asking seble to do something extra. And when he says no, you're getting upset about it! So now you're also pulling out the old "well you did it for Johnny how come you can't do it for me?" Yes, I want a fair game for everyone to play. So I don't want one user having advantages over another. But every situation is different. I do not know the circumstances of each situation. And neither do you of course. Sometimes, I couldn't imagine having sebles job. He's like a parent. And his kids are crying that they still want an allowance even tho they half *** did their chores! It doesn't work that way

He probably wakes up and has his coffee while reading tickets and thinks.... "geez, another man crying that it's my fault that he can't handle the guidelines of a game". But having to be nice and professional in his responses because it's business. I'm sure he wishes he could say other things to us at times!

Some of you guys man.....

Edit.... forgot to add one thing. Yes I agree this has came up here in the forums more often lately. It has, I agree. So now 5-10 users are having this issue. Out of 1000+ profiles probably. Rather than the 1-2 users that it used to be. Still..... not nearly enough to make changes for.

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/10/2020 5:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/10/2020 1:14:00 AM (view original):
“If MORE people are making this mistake more often recently, well guess what?..... MORE people can say "hey, I screwed up."

Or they could fix the problem, WIS would make more money, users would be more happy, and you’d rarely see anyone post about it in the forum.

So again, why exactly are you opposed to fixing it, when there is such an easy and obvious fix?

I'm not against "fixing" anything. But what needs to be fixed??????? More reminders?! Do they need to slap you in the face or dump water on you to get you to remember? THEY OFFER AN AUTO RENEW BUTTON. It's fixed! And I'm sure that's the way they feel about it

Keep in mind, you're asking seble to do something extra. And when he says no, you're getting upset about it! So now you're also pulling out the old "well you did it for Johnny how come you can't do it for me?" Yes, I want a fair game for everyone to play. So I don't want one user having advantages over another. But every situation is different. I do not know the circumstances of each situation. And neither do you of course. Sometimes, I couldn't imagine having sebles job. He's like a parent. And his kids are crying that they still want an allowance even tho they half *** did their chores! It doesn't work that way

He probably wakes up and has he coffee while reading tickets and thinks.... "geez, another man crying that it's my fault that he can't handle the guidelines of a game". But having to be nice and professional in his responses because it's business. I'm sure he wishes he could say other things to us at times!

Some of you guys man.....

Edit.... forgot to add one thing. Yes I agree this has came up here in the forums more often lately. It has, I agree. So now 5-10 users are having this issue. Out of 1000+ profiles probably. Rather than the 1-2 users that it used to be. Still..... not nearly enough to make changes for.

Hahaha this is gold Jerry, gold!

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/10/2020 9:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/10/2020 1:14:00 AM (view original):
“If MORE people are making this mistake more often recently, well guess what?..... MORE people can say "hey, I screwed up."

Or they could fix the problem, WIS would make more money, users would be more happy, and you’d rarely see anyone post about it in the forum.

So again, why exactly are you opposed to fixing it, when there is such an easy and obvious fix?

I'm not against "fixing" anything. But what needs to be fixed??????? More reminders?! Do they need to slap you in the face or dump water on you to get you to remember? THEY OFFER AN AUTO RENEW BUTTON. It's fixed! And I'm sure that's the way they feel about it

Keep in mind, you're asking seble to do something extra. And when he says no, you're getting upset about it! So now you're also pulling out the old "well you did it for Johnny how come you can't do it for me?" Yes, I want a fair game for everyone to play. So I don't want one user having advantages over another. But every situation is different. I do not know the circumstances of each situation. And neither do you of course. Sometimes, I couldn't imagine having sebles job. He's like a parent. And his kids are crying that they still want an allowance even tho they half *** did their chores! It doesn't work that way

He probably wakes up and has his coffee while reading tickets and thinks.... "geez, another man crying that it's my fault that he can't handle the guidelines of a game". But having to be nice and professional in his responses because it's business. I'm sure he wishes he could say other things to us at times!

Some of you guys man.....

Edit.... forgot to add one thing. Yes I agree this has came up here in the forums more often lately. It has, I agree. So now 5-10 users are having this issue. Out of 1000+ profiles probably. Rather than the 1-2 users that it used to be. Still..... not nearly enough to make changes for.

It looks like you’re going to continue to ignore what has already been said, and just go with your own narrative. If you would pay attention, you’d know two of us have already given specific examples of what a user friendly fix would look like (hint, not reminders). We’re talking about structural change. Reminders are not structural change. And the ones they give are easy to ignore. The auto renew button is checked, that isn’t the issue. Site emails are very easy to ignore. And for me personally (and I’m sure I’m not alone in this) I don’t give out my personal email to these sites. I have a separate spam email that I rarely check. But in this specific case, since this account was started by my son, with his spam email account, I am doubly locked out. And there doesn’t appear to be a way to change the email you use, at least there wasn’t last time I checked, which was a couple years ago when they switched out the “wallet” section to LeagueSafe. I asked about having it changed then, and that request was casually ignored. So real world email is no help, either.

And on your number estimates.... seriously? You all got seble to close the extra resource loophole when guys got their team back after not renewing. Was it 1-2 or 5-10 people “having this issue?” You think that was enough to make changes for?

I think you know it’s always been a lot more common than that. I think the narrative you guys constructed and ran with was that it was mostly people trying to cheat. The way bbunch got bashed in those threads was shameful. I don’t doubt a few folks had figured out how to exploit it, but the vast majority has always been people just forgetting. That whole scheme was just ridiculous, way too much work and way too much risk to bother with.

If seble can close that to satisfy a few delusional supersleuths, he can easily tweak the system now to allow users to check a box to auto load credits or auto charge the CC when auto renew is checked; or he can initiate the unemployed mode directly after the NT instead of waiting a day, so people are out a day before job applications start (importantly though, after credits are earned, which is why most folks wait, of those who wait). Then you never have to come to the forums again to have this ridiculous discussion.

Oh and also, why don’t you go to the thread I started last week and lecture me about slapping me in the face, or calling me on the phone to remind me there. You know, for posterity.

I haven’t had a chance to read through all 6 pages but, whenever I’m out of seasons I get an email. I realize that email could come more than 24 hours in advance but in a day and age when 90+% of us get our emails to our phones and check emails multiple times a day, that seems sufficient.

That said, I’m not blaming wron here at all. I always feel bad when I read these threads as people lose something they spent months or years building.

Posted by darnoc29099 on 6/10/2020 10:12:00 AM (view original):
I haven’t had a chance to read through all 6 pages but, whenever I’m out of seasons I get an email. I realize that email could come more than 24 hours in advance but in a day and age when 90+% of us get our emails to our phones and check emails multiple times a day, that seems sufficient.

That said, I’m not blaming wron here at all. I always feel bad when I read these threads as people lose something they spent months or years building.

Like I said above, there are reasons folks don’t get that email. And you’d think it’d be easy to change your email with LeagueSafe, but you’d be wrong.

ETA, and for those with neurological differences like anxiety, more notifications and reminders is basically the opposite of help. It’s just adding more onto the pile of things we have to ignore to stay healthy. Some will surely scoff at this, and whatever; but as with the colorblind issue that came up in beta, it’s a legit concern for some, a concern that most people don’t have to think about.

Did anybody other than Robinhood apply for the open position?

Posted by shoe3 on 6/10/2020 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/10/2020 9:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/10/2020 1:14:00 AM (view original):
“If MORE people are making this mistake more often recently, well guess what?..... MORE people can say "hey, I screwed up."

Or they could fix the problem, WIS would make more money, users would be more happy, and you’d rarely see anyone post about it in the forum.

So again, why exactly are you opposed to fixing it, when there is such an easy and obvious fix?

I'm not against "fixing" anything. But what needs to be fixed??????? More reminders?! Do they need to slap you in the face or dump water on you to get you to remember? THEY OFFER AN AUTO RENEW BUTTON. It's fixed! And I'm sure that's the way they feel about it

Keep in mind, you're asking seble to do something extra. And when he says no, you're getting upset about it! So now you're also pulling out the old "well you did it for Johnny how come you can't do it for me?" Yes, I want a fair game for everyone to play. So I don't want one user having advantages over another. But every situation is different. I do not know the circumstances of each situation. And neither do you of course. Sometimes, I couldn't imagine having sebles job. He's like a parent. And his kids are crying that they still want an allowance even tho they half *** did their chores! It doesn't work that way

He probably wakes up and has his coffee while reading tickets and thinks.... "geez, another man crying that it's my fault that he can't handle the guidelines of a game". But having to be nice and professional in his responses because it's business. I'm sure he wishes he could say other things to us at times!

Some of you guys man.....

Edit.... forgot to add one thing. Yes I agree this has came up here in the forums more often lately. It has, I agree. So now 5-10 users are having this issue. Out of 1000+ profiles probably. Rather than the 1-2 users that it used to be. Still..... not nearly enough to make changes for.

It looks like you’re going to continue to ignore what has already been said, and just go with your own narrative. If you would pay attention, you’d know two of us have already given specific examples of what a user friendly fix would look like (hint, not reminders). We’re talking about structural change. Reminders are not structural change. And the ones they give are easy to ignore. The auto renew button is checked, that isn’t the issue. Site emails are very easy to ignore. And for me personally (and I’m sure I’m not alone in this) I don’t give out my personal email to these sites. I have a separate spam email that I rarely check. But in this specific case, since this account was started by my son, with his spam email account, I am doubly locked out. And there doesn’t appear to be a way to change the email you use, at least there wasn’t last time I checked, which was a couple years ago when they switched out the “wallet” section to LeagueSafe. I asked about having it changed then, and that request was casually ignored. So real world email is no help, either.

And on your number estimates.... seriously? You all got seble to close the extra resource loophole when guys got their team back after not renewing. Was it 1-2 or 5-10 people “having this issue?” You think that was enough to make changes for?

I think you know it’s always been a lot more common than that. I think the narrative you guys constructed and ran with was that it was mostly people trying to cheat. The way bbunch got bashed in those threads was shameful. I don’t doubt a few folks had figured out how to exploit it, but the vast majority has always been people just forgetting. That whole scheme was just ridiculous, way too much work and way too much risk to bother with.

If seble can close that to satisfy a few delusional supersleuths, he can easily tweak the system now to allow users to check a box to auto load credits or auto charge the CC when auto renew is checked; or he can initiate the unemployed mode directly after the NT instead of waiting a day, so people are out a day before job applications start (importantly though, after credits are earned, which is why most folks wait, of those who wait). Then you never have to come to the forums again to have this ridiculous discussion.

Oh and also, why don’t you go to the thread I started last week and lecture me about slapping me in the face, or calling me on the phone to remind me there. You know, for posterity.

To clarify, I don't wanna slap you in the face. I love ya man! I meant "do you need a reminder to slap you in the face". I was using the term as an expression.

Now regarding the thread you mentioned about closing a Loophole, that brings up a valid point that could apply here. I'm on board with getting the gang together to make the game better. So looking at this thru those eyes, let's discuss.....

The previous situation was about a loophole in the game that created an unfair advantage with gameplay. I didn't bash bbunch or any one person involved. But that issue has to do with the game play itself. As far as this renewal issue..... if this was something I felt strongly about, I'd lead the parade in hope for change. But to me, it's just not that big of a "game problem". As I stated before, there are many options and reminders. My view on renewal..... if you can recruit, set your depth chart, your tempo, your +/-, your practice, all this stuff on a daily basis..... you can renew. Not renewing is comparable to "I forgot to change my tempo for my big game". We can't go back and change that. So I just don't see a need here.

Last but not least, what I find ironic, is that you are a HUGE supporter of seble. And you defend everything HD related and preach that "the mistakes are false assumptions by the user, and better decisions can be made to prepare for (whatever)"..... but now, this renewal thing has affected YOU and you're totally changing your view. Now you're throwing barbs at seble! But this is no different than your normal preachings.... a coach can make better decisions to prepare themselves for these situations. Do you see what I mean?!

I'm sorry you lost your team. As darnoc said, I don't want anybody to lose a team they want. It would upset me too! But, I mean.....

Posted by cbriese on 6/9/2020 10:49:00 AM (view original):
Oh good grief. No one is willing to own up to their own failure/mistakes in these forums, and always need to find someone else to blame. Jeez. Take some personal responsibility for a change, and stop the incessant whining. "Renewals are broken". "The jobs process is broken". "Recruiting dice rolls are unfair". Life isn't always fair. And as much as you believe you deserve a participation award for everything you do, that's just not the way it works. The sooner you realize that, the better off you will be.

If you think a job system where A+ and A schools are left vacant for multiple seasons because no one is qualified for them is a good system, then I don't know what to tell you.

It sounds like shoe wants to use the "trigger" event as logging on WIS and *NOT* seeing his team listed to use that as a time to go buy more seasons (so the e-mails, site-mails, etc is ignored *but* the missing team not being there would be the impetus for him to go "renew" his team if allowed to at this point assuming he even logged in that day).

You could consider that once coach applications are being accepted, you've *lost* your team at that point (if not, why even not complain even once a new coach has accepted that job).