Posted by mullycj on 6/12/2020 2:50:00 AM (view original):
5 teams is insane (to me). I am JUST going back to two teams and we will see how long that lasts again until even that feels overwhelming.

I felt this way too. Until I tried it. Now I feel naked without all my teams. I enjoy having all the 1x worlds because it's scheduled basically to where 1 NT ends, the next worlds is beginning. So I always have a tourney going.

What i DON'T enjoy is that every time i blink, recruiting is starting somewhere. And I don't enjoy recruiting at all. It's 9 days of anger for me, Haha. At least it's split up in two sections. Giving me time to NOT break my phone in between sessions

I used to think one team was too much. Now I currently have 6 teams and will likely have 7 in a week as I try out low D1.

i don't know how the folks with 5-10 teams do it! i mean, i guess i do - but i have to put in my 2 cents on the importance of picking 1-2 programs to be 'primary' where you do literally everything you can think of to make them as good as possible, and even more importantly, to work on developing your strategy and execution to be as good as possible. the difference is huge, its really hard to hone in on your strategy without a primary team or two where you are analyzing game results, doing the long term planning that is more or less required for dominance (at the start of each season and before recruiting folks should really be carefully considering what their team might look like for this NT, next NT, and the following - so you can recognize shortcomings that can be addressed via player development and recruiting, you know, in time to actually do something about it. if you go into each year like 'i wonder what this will look like', its like you are playing chess thinking 2 moves ahead against bobby fisher who is out there thinking 10+ moves ahead every move).

its fine to carry a bunch of fun teams, but i seriously doubt anyone here has the mental stamina to have 5-10 primary teams. there's folks with 5-10 good teams but nobody has ever come close to 5-10 great ones. i used to spend at least a half hour a day on my primary teams (2/day), during the regular season - and way more in the critical periods. i never could carry more than 2 primary teams, and even that pushed my limits (i would typically carry a couple fun teams too). now i never more than half *** a team - but even my half assing of it takes at least 20 hours per season. that's really when i know my stuff too, like my kansas program, was probably right in that 20 hours per season mark - but i was also sort of already master of that universe. no way i could... fully half *** (?) a team in 3.0 in that time. and you folks probably, on the whole, need to be doing a lot more reflecting and analysis about what makes your team and system work, than i do. so that probably should be looked at as a floor, not a ceiling. at least for anyone who aspires to some day lay down some righteous domination :)

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/12/2020 11:31:00 AM (view original):
i don't know how the folks with 5-10 teams do it! i mean, i guess i do - but i have to put in my 2 cents on the importance of picking 1-2 programs to be 'primary' where you do literally everything you can think of to make them as good as possible, and even more importantly, to work on developing your strategy and execution to be as good as possible. the difference is huge, its really hard to hone in on your strategy without a primary team or two where you are analyzing game results, doing the long term planning that is more or less required for dominance (at the start of each season and before recruiting folks should really be carefully considering what their team might look like for this NT, next NT, and the following - so you can recognize shortcomings that can be addressed via player development and recruiting, you know, in time to actually do something about it. if you go into each year like 'i wonder what this will look like', its like you are playing chess thinking 2 moves ahead against bobby fisher who is out there thinking 10+ moves ahead every move).

its fine to carry a bunch of fun teams, but i seriously doubt anyone here has the mental stamina to have 5-10 primary teams. there's folks with 5-10 good teams but nobody has ever come close to 5-10 great ones. i used to spend at least a half hour a day on my primary teams (2/day), during the regular season - and way more in the critical periods. i never could carry more than 2 primary teams, and even that pushed my limits (i would typically carry a couple fun teams too). now i never more than half *** a team - but even my half assing of it takes at least 20 hours per season. that's really when i know my stuff too, like my kansas program, was probably right in that 20 hours per season mark - but i was also sort of already master of that universe. no way i could... fully half *** (?) a team in 3.0 in that time. and you folks probably, on the whole, need to be doing a lot more reflecting and analysis about what makes your team and system work, than i do. so that probably should be looked at as a floor, not a ceiling. at least for anyone who aspires to some day lay down some righteous domination :)

Gil you preach about long term approach often. And I fully agree with you. But I don't think it's difficult to do at all, with 1 or 20 teams, once you've got your rhythm.

I'm a careful planner as far as my roster cconstruction. I always have balance, I always have either Sr/Soph or Jr/Frosh by position, and I always see "ok my PAS looks weak in the next season or two. I'll bump that up a bit in recruiting" as my vision.

Once you get that mindset (even if it's not the same method. Just whatever method a coach chooses to use), you can close your eyes and stand on your head and do that in your sleep. Generally having that many teams, they all have different levels of strengths at different times too. So (at least for me), I'm able to focus on the "main one or two" teams. While the rest aren't needing as much focus

I have faith that you can do it!

Posted by shoe3 on 6/12/2020 12:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 6/11/2020 11:10:00 PM (view original):
"As someone with neurological differences that make certain things more difficult for me than lots of people, I can say I am kind of shocked it’s only been twice. I forget things all the time."

Do these neurological differences include procrastination? As an intelligent person who knows his limitations I would ask what prohibited you from renewing the other 40 days of the season? I am pretty sure the system allows this.

(was gonna let this die but we have a shot of hitting 10 pages)

No, I explained this in the other thread, but I’m happy to repeat. I have a pretty nifty system that works well for me 199 times out of 200. Since I enjoy rebuilds and don’t use credit farming, I pay for many seasons. Not a lot, but I have never had a big stash of credits sitting away. My wife and I are both full time students and part time church workers, so the entertainment budget is much smaller than it used to be. Paying as I go works best.

I typically stay ahead by two teams. With 5 teams, that means when one team finishes and I get credits for a season, I buy a season for the next team that will be finishing, so 2 of my 5 teams are typically “renewed for next season.” Sometimes I will let it get down to the last team, if I feel like the last team has a shot to put me over the hump for a 5-pack. (That isn’t what happened this time, though, as Tark and Phelan were both wrapping up around finals week.) 99.5% of the time, that’s been brilliant. The only times it didn’t work are when two teams are finishing within a few days of each other, and it happens to fall during a period of time where I unexpectedly just can’t focus on this game - my dad’s funeral, and the Minneapolis Uprising.

The neurological difference I’m referring to here is ADD. I really am surprised this hasn’t come up more often for me, and it’s probably because the system I settled into just works really well for me. Reminders and warnings are really kind of the opposite of help, because stuff that’s going to feel like work to me is likely to spike my anxiety, and will generally just be ignored. I currently have over 18,000 unread emails in outlook. I can send you a screenshot if you want.

A part time church worker who drops F bombs on the message boards! I'm starting to really like this guy!!

Kidding Shoe, kidding......just busting your nuts a little, it's all good.

Posted by emy1013 on 6/12/2020 4:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/12/2020 12:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 6/11/2020 11:10:00 PM (view original):
"As someone with neurological differences that make certain things more difficult for me than lots of people, I can say I am kind of shocked it’s only been twice. I forget things all the time."

Do these neurological differences include procrastination? As an intelligent person who knows his limitations I would ask what prohibited you from renewing the other 40 days of the season? I am pretty sure the system allows this.

(was gonna let this die but we have a shot of hitting 10 pages)

No, I explained this in the other thread, but I’m happy to repeat. I have a pretty nifty system that works well for me 199 times out of 200. Since I enjoy rebuilds and don’t use credit farming, I pay for many seasons. Not a lot, but I have never had a big stash of credits sitting away. My wife and I are both full time students and part time church workers, so the entertainment budget is much smaller than it used to be. Paying as I go works best.

I typically stay ahead by two teams. With 5 teams, that means when one team finishes and I get credits for a season, I buy a season for the next team that will be finishing, so 2 of my 5 teams are typically “renewed for next season.” Sometimes I will let it get down to the last team, if I feel like the last team has a shot to put me over the hump for a 5-pack. (That isn’t what happened this time, though, as Tark and Phelan were both wrapping up around finals week.) 99.5% of the time, that’s been brilliant. The only times it didn’t work are when two teams are finishing within a few days of each other, and it happens to fall during a period of time where I unexpectedly just can’t focus on this game - my dad’s funeral, and the Minneapolis Uprising.

The neurological difference I’m referring to here is ADD. I really am surprised this hasn’t come up more often for me, and it’s probably because the system I settled into just works really well for me. Reminders and warnings are really kind of the opposite of help, because stuff that’s going to feel like work to me is likely to spike my anxiety, and will generally just be ignored. I currently have over 18,000 unread emails in outlook. I can send you a screenshot if you want.

A part time church worker who drops F bombs on the message boards! I'm starting to really like this guy!!

Kidding Shoe, kidding......just busting your nuts a little, it's all good.

You have no idea. And I am a lot tamer than my wife.

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/12/2020 11:31:00 AM (view original):
i don't know how the folks with 5-10 teams do it! i mean, i guess i do - but i have to put in my 2 cents on the importance of picking 1-2 programs to be 'primary' where you do literally everything you can think of to make them as good as possible, and even more importantly, to work on developing your strategy and execution to be as good as possible. the difference is huge, its really hard to hone in on your strategy without a primary team or two where you are analyzing game results, doing the long term planning that is more or less required for dominance (at the start of each season and before recruiting folks should really be carefully considering what their team might look like for this NT, next NT, and the following - so you can recognize shortcomings that can be addressed via player development and recruiting, you know, in time to actually do something about it. if you go into each year like 'i wonder what this will look like', its like you are playing chess thinking 2 moves ahead against bobby fisher who is out there thinking 10+ moves ahead every move).

its fine to carry a bunch of fun teams, but i seriously doubt anyone here has the mental stamina to have 5-10 primary teams. there's folks with 5-10 good teams but nobody has ever come close to 5-10 great ones. i used to spend at least a half hour a day on my primary teams (2/day), during the regular season - and way more in the critical periods. i never could carry more than 2 primary teams, and even that pushed my limits (i would typically carry a couple fun teams too). now i never more than half *** a team - but even my half assing of it takes at least 20 hours per season. that's really when i know my stuff too, like my kansas program, was probably right in that 20 hours per season mark - but i was also sort of already master of that universe. no way i could... fully half *** (?) a team in 3.0 in that time. and you folks probably, on the whole, need to be doing a lot more reflecting and analysis about what makes your team and system work, than i do. so that probably should be looked at as a floor, not a ceiling. at least for anyone who aspires to some day lay down some righteous domination :)

Gil, I beg to differ. I used to have 1 team and thought the same thing but then I got a lot of teams and still do the same future depth charts, experimentation during regular season, lengthy gameplans, and same recruiting/scouting. I'd consider all my teams primary and I believe I've had success with them. It's for sure possible to be very successful with many teams. I feel I play with these teams as I would with one or two.

For reference, since I've got more than one team (not counting current seasons for each team), I've played 13 seasons in Knight (0 rebuild seasons, it was my first world so we were already built), 7 seasons in Rupp (1 D3 and 3 rebuild), 11 seasons in Tark (3 rebuild seasons), 9 Phelan seasons (1 season D3, 1 season another D2, and 3 rebuild seasons), 3 seasons in Smith (2 rebuild), and 3 seasons Crum (1 season at other team, 2 rebuild). So that's 46 seasons. 13 rebuild seasons, 2 seasons D3 hopping to D2, and 2 other indivual 1-season stints. SO 46-those 17 is 29 and I have 6 titles in those 29 seasons. I really think you can do well with a lot of teams.

For me the large number of teams allowed me to quickly learn HD 3.0 after being away for four years. I was able to spread out my mistakes among many teams. All of my teams are rebuilds, so mistakes made one season can be papered over the next. It has also allowed me to re-familiarize myself with the defense I knew (man), the defense I thought I knew (press), and the defense I always avoided (zone). And the stark human population decline, along with all of the strategy changes that has fostered, also took some time to adjust to.

I'll likely cull some teams in the future, and I am carrying additional risk of burnout, but after rejoining everything around the first of the year, HD has been a welcome distraction at a time when I am locked away at home more often than I would like.

Posted by cbriese on 6/14/2020 11:09:00 AM (view original):
For me the large number of teams allowed me to quickly learn HD 3.0 after being away for four years. I was able to spread out my mistakes among many teams. All of my teams are rebuilds, so mistakes made one season can be papered over the next. It has also allowed me to re-familiarize myself with the defense I knew (man), the defense I thought I knew (press), and the defense I always avoided (zone). And the stark human population decline, along with all of the strategy changes that has fostered, also took some time to adjust to.

I'll likely cull some teams in the future, and I am carrying additional risk of burnout, but after rejoining everything around the first of the year, HD has been a welcome distraction at a time when I am locked away at home more often than I would like.

+1 same here although I already had prior experience with 3.0 taking on 4 rebuilds is giving me plenty of room to relearn and reengage with HD.

Posted by Sportsbulls on 6/14/2020 1:28:00 AM (view original):
For reference, since I've got more than one team (not counting current seasons for each team), I've played 13 seasons in Knight (0 rebuild seasons, it was my first world so we were already built), 7 seasons in Rupp (1 D3 and 3 rebuild), 11 seasons in Tark (3 rebuild seasons), 9 Phelan seasons (1 season D3, 1 season another D2, and 3 rebuild seasons), 3 seasons in Smith (2 rebuild), and 3 seasons Crum (1 season at other team, 2 rebuild). So that's 46 seasons. 13 rebuild seasons, 2 seasons D3 hopping to D2, and 2 other indivual 1-season stints. SO 46-those 17 is 29 and I have 6 titles in those 29 seasons. I really think you can do well with a lot of teams.

its probably just a matter of our personal definitions of 'great'. you are doing really well for a newer coach, and so i don't really want to argue against that, but i generally would roughly say there are at most 10 or so great programs per division at any point in time, in the softest version of 'great' i could get behind, and far less if you look at it from a historically great standpoint.

anyway, to me the idea is, if you want to either try to build historically great programs, or get to a point where you can - it takes a somewhat ridiculous amount of planning and effort. i don't think most coaches even get there on 1 team. perhaps a litmus test is, can you - without looking - rattle off the roster, tournament role, and caliber of each player, in each major ability like scoring, defense, rebounding (or just all the core ratings within a few points) - for next year's NT? not the upcoming NT, the one after that. one should have been thinking about that for at least a full season, even if you are early in the season - next year's NT squad is something you should have already carefully considered at the start of this season, last season's recruiting, the start of last season, and the recruiting from the season before - so it should be old hat by now.

i suppose my claim is less about the 1% of highest stamina folks, but more about 99% of folks who aren't, and who are likely aren't even coaching 1 team like a primary team should be coached. it takes a lot to know the team like the back of your hand and to make sure you are putting 100% effort into every recruiting cycle, every start of season planning, every pre-post season planning, and enough game planning + game analysis to get full value from the team by the post season - which means roughly half of your games. everyone takes shortcuts - and coaching a team with that intensity probably makes it not fun for a lot of folks. i am mostly saying, whatever 'your best' is, make sure you have a place that gets your best consistently, so you can work on refining your vision for your teams. its really hard to do that without a team that is a really good implementation of your vision. refining your vision for your teams is the long term aspect of getting better, and i think a lot of coaches - especially those who have been around a long time - spend very little time refining their vision, and that leads to stagnation.

Ok how bout this one gil..... I truly understand everything you're saying about team building. But I think consistency can prove a coaches drive and determination and attempt at your future planning of the team concept.

Once I've gotten to A+ prestige, D2, I've NEVER lost it. Ever. In any world on any resume. I played in all 1x worlds. Does that convince you that some of us DO in fact plan in that manner? I realize getting to A+ at D2 isn't a high degree of difficulty. But to me, that shows dedication on every level you're speaking of. I don't have a Rupp team currently but I will when the season rolls

I’ll check in on forum in half a year when the goal is for all my teams to fit your definition of great. I think this team is a top 5 D2 team. I felt as though I hit my “peak” at least a similar level to what I am now, about 3 months ago so in the next 6 months we’ll see if I can reach my expectation of having every team be great with this many teams.

Also, I can name every player I have on each team (besides Allen because it’s a one season D3 stop) and their role/future role, strengths, weaknesses, class, and their ratings within 5-10 of cores. You probably don’t believe me because there’s no way you’d know if I’m being honest, but I made sure to test myself first, lol.

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/15/2020 9:15:00 PM (view original):
Ok how bout this one gil..... I truly understand everything you're saying about team building. But I think consistency can prove a coaches drive and determination and attempt at your future planning of the team concept.

Once I've gotten to A+ prestige, D2, I've NEVER lost it. Ever. In any world on any resume. I played in all 1x worlds. Does that convince you that some of us DO in fact plan in that manner? I realize getting to A+ at D2 isn't a high degree of difficulty. But to me, that shows dedication on every level you're speaking of. I don't have a Rupp team currently but I will when the season rolls

maintaining an a+ as a measure for great teams is a joke, so no!

i think i'm not hitting the messaging right here. i'm not saying its hard to spend a low amount of time on a team and do pretty well, if by pretty well you mean like 5-10th best team in a world in today's pretty empty worlds. to have say 5 of the top 10 teams per division across all worlds, now that i think is extremely hard! IMO, the ceiling of effort required to fully cover all the duties of coaching is a lot higher than most folks recognize. the ceiling of time is a lot higher. also, the ceiling of what can be accomplished consistently is ridiculous high. in short - everyone has a ton they could improve on (myself included), and there is easily value in spending at least 25-30 hours on a primary team or two. in my early and obsessed days, i bet i spent 100+ hours a month between my 2 primary teams (2/day worlds, so about 50 hours per season per team).

concrete examples -
- 20-30m per meaningful regular season game is not a very large investment. i probably did that for half of all my games for the first 2 years i played, after a couple months when i got serious. treating it almost like a NT game, but with a focus on analysis more than anything. specifically - what do you expect to happen in the game? - and then studying what actually happens - is a great way to learn. i recommend picking about 30% of the best regular season games and then spending 30-60m on each.
- 1h per important NT game on game planning can be well spent. i still had to spend that myself a year ago when i picked up uconn, my first 3.0 team after 3 years off. i can't say i was super productive that whole time (i actually got up to 2h relatively often), but even at my best / least rusty, i could not fully NT game plan in under 20-30m depending on the situation. if you really care about a game, you want to start by doing a full team analysis on the other team, really get in there - and then when you predict what happen, you'll have a better chance of being right, and of being able to game plan to affect that outcome. even at my most experienced / least rusty, i would randomly spend 2 hours on a NT game plan pretty often (20% of games??).
- d1 recruiting - 10+ hours is pretty much what i think it takes, but i am still new to it so i could easily spend 15+ (i definitely spent that much at uconn when i started 3.0 for the first time a year ago), although there are seasons where seemingly nothing happens and it ends up taking a bunch less (5?).
- your season's team setup usually should be considered at length at the start of the season, 1-2x along the way, and going into the post season. these 3-4 sessions can easily consume 6-10 hours of very productive time.
- in total, when i was still learning a ton, i probably spent 50 hours a season, and later playing schemes i knew like the back of my hand, i still spent at least 20 hours per season when i was trying to win. that was 20h without coaching the regular season, generally speaking.

in conclusion - i think even experienced coaches can easily justify 20-30 hours a season, with newer coaches or those trying new schemes easily being able to spend 40-50 hours per season. the ceiling on success is astronomical - i suspect the 'perfect' coach could maintain 8 titles per 10 seasons in perpetuity, and 3-5 titles for every 10 seasons has been done a lot of times and is probably a good 'realistic ceiling' coaches could target. perhaps d2/d3 recruiting is shorter than in d1, and the times are a little less, i don't know!

Posted by Sportsbulls on 6/15/2020 10:52:00 PM (view original):
I’ll check in on forum in half a year when the goal is for all my teams to fit your definition of great. I think this team is a top 5 D2 team. I felt as though I hit my “peak” at least a similar level to what I am now, about 3 months ago so in the next 6 months we’ll see if I can reach my expectation of having every team be great with this many teams.

Also, I can name every player I have on each team (besides Allen because it’s a one season D3 stop) and their role/future role, strengths, weaknesses, class, and their ratings within 5-10 of cores. You probably don’t believe me because there’s no way you’d know if I’m being honest, but I made sure to test myself first, lol.

according to my list, which is about a month old, your lincoln team is 3rd across all worlds on a 5 year basis - which is excellent! i was going to say that but i think i cut out the part specific to your resume. FYI it was like 39 and 75 for your two d3 teams, on a 5 year basis. i sort of prefer 10 seasons but you haven't been there long enough - but your lincoln team's 5 year was like, 80 something % of the lowest 10 year team, so they are probably on there in no time, with a good position if you can do even close to as well the next 5 years! you are definitely on the right track, i look forward to seeing what happens in the next 6 months too :)

i believe you if you say you can do all that. im curious, how much time do you think you spend on each of your teams, at least the ones like, not rebuilding or whatever - ones you are really focused on winning with? also curious if you are running about the same scheme everywhere or are all over the map, etc?

FYI - you:
Last Five year dynasties - division 2 AllWorlds unweighted
Place, Score, Team, Conference-World-Start Season, Coach(es)
1 151 Coker CVAC-1-113 topdogggbm
2 147 U. of DC S.Atlantic-10-137 Arfy
3 142 Lincoln Heartland-10-137 Sportsbulls
4 140 CSU, Stanislaus Cal. CAA-1-113 danpilgrim1
5 135 S. Dakota N. Central-7-107 kbadgley
6 135 Texas A&M, Commerce Lone Star-9-137 cwaldenj
7 134 Wilmington C.Atlantic-4-112 snewell12
8 134 N. Colorado N. Central-1-113 bhansalid00
9 131 Puerto Rico, Bayamon Sunshine-3-113 mrslam34
10 131 C. Washington Great NW-9-137 Arfy

FYI - your target in 5 more seasons:
Last Ten year dynasties - division 2 AllWorlds unweighted
Place, Score, Team, Conference-World-Start Season, Coach(es)
1 263 U. of DC S.Atlantic-10-132 Arfy
2 259 Coker CVAC-1-108 topdogggbm
3 246 Texas A&M, Commerce Lone Star-9-132 cwaldenj
4 243 N. Florida Peach Belt-5-106 teamvip
5 241 C. Washington Great NW-9-132 Arfy
6 240 CSU, Stanislaus Cal. CAA-1-108 danpilgrim1
7 231 Wilmington C.Atlantic-4-107 snewell12
8 229 Ashland GLIAC-6-106 doogan
9 228 Incarnate Word Heartland-7-102 snewell12
10 228 Abilene Christian Lone Star-6-106 jtt8355