Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 2:36:00 PM (view original):
I don't want to quote the long thread on immigration. What I will say about it is that it's important to look at Trump's previous policies because it is extremely likely that they will continue even after a vaccine is developed, regardless of your opinion. Furthermore, it is important to look at how Trump views this issue because it shows his complete lack of understanding in economics, the constitution, or morality. If Trump is re-elected, he will lead in a post-COVID world (most likely). Let's talk about what immigration looks like in that world.

By the time we have consensus IF Trump is re-elected his 2nd term will likely be more than 1/2 finished. It would have been a sound debate, Mr. Tangplay but given our new normal it is unfortunately moot. My kids have been out of school and sports since March, some of their friends are suffering from depression, one is on suicide watch. We have major issues in this country due to the lock downs and to the virus. It is a trying time for our country and I do want to make amends with you because even though we think differently politically, this has to bring us together somewhat. But you have seen for yourself how your side attacks with personal insults, sarcasm and straight out vitriol. So why bother debating further? It is pointless.

Here's what I would have done (and what the experts would have done):

Trump banned travel from China on the 24th. Good job Trump. Immediately after that decision, I would have instituted a wide-spread contact tracing program, as well as invoked the Defense Production Act and pumped out as many testing kits as possible. Even before the virus, experts were warning Trump that the US was NOT prepared for a pandemic. Before the virus hit, I would have developed a plan for what the US strategy is in case of a virus.

These steps were taken by countries such as South Korea, who was able to keep the virus at a minimum. Social distancing should have also been mandated far sooner. The complete shutdown should never have had to be enacted. It only happened because Trump waited for so long to address the virus; it was a last resort.

Trump's rhetoric on the pandemic has been horrible from the start. He has not endorsed masks (he doesn't wear them) and he keeps touting Hydroxychloroquin, even though the medical professionals told him not to.

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2020 2:32:00 PM (view original):
It bears mentioning that the most "successful" countries at stifling the spread of Covid have primarily been island countries that have essentially isolated themselves (Iceland, New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan) It doesn't seem a "racist" a policy when you can just turn away boats and planes, as opposed to some poor dude that is just driving over the border...

Yet, when I suggested that, the tolerant Left immediately called me a racist. Interesting, right?

The "tolerant left" is an oxymoron. If you don't agree with their platforms, you're a fascist or a racist. And that's why the left will always have trouble gathering the center. And the funny thing is that they're always doubling down on the rhetoric despite alienating the middle (who are essentially just trying to be left alone)...

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 2:36:00 PM (view original):
I don't want to quote the long thread on immigration. What I will say about it is that it's important to look at Trump's previous policies because it is extremely likely that they will continue even after a vaccine is developed, regardless of your opinion. Furthermore, it is important to look at how Trump views this issue because it shows his complete lack of understanding in economics, the constitution, or morality. If Trump is re-elected, he will lead in a post-COVID world (most likely). Let's talk about what immigration looks like in that world.

By the time we have consensus IF Trump is re-elected his 2nd term will likely be more than 1/2 finished. It would have been a sound debate, Mr. Tangplay but given our new normal it is unfortunately moot. My kids have been out of school and sports since March, some of their friends are suffering from depression, one is on suicide watch. We have major issues in this country due to the lock downs and to the virus. It is a trying time for our country and I do want to make amends with you because even though we think differently politically, this has to bring us together somewhat. But you have seen for yourself how your side attacks with personal insults, sarcasm and straight out vitriol. So why bother debating further? It is pointless.

If you don't want to talk about immigration, we can move to the economy. You seem more passionate about that anyway.

In terms of my side, it's irrelevant. Ignore them if you want. This is a Trump/Biden debate. Your vote shouldn't be affected by the rhetoric from the left. And by the way, the right is bad as well. Let's just ignore that.

You know why I jumped to the conclusion that closing borders was racist? Because you supported a candidate who's second most popular campaign slogan was "build the wall." A saying, by the way, that many high schools and colleges have banned because of its racist intent. So, yeah, pretty easy to connect the dots. Defund the police.

Posted by Uofa2 on 6/22/2020 2:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Uofa2 on 6/22/2020 2:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2020 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rsp777 on 6/22/2020 2:10:00 PM (view original):
The commie not trusting the media or Biden when he backs the greatest LIAR in the history of LIARS is laughable.

The “over-hyped” well over hundred thousand DEAD BODIES are NOT laughable.

Keep it up commie. You never disappoint.

I have to agree with RSP here (and I don't agree with much he says). Not saying Biden is perfectly honest (He's a politician, so we know he isn't) but how can someone who supports Trump claim not to trust Biden? Trump continually lies about anything and everything. If you deny that Trump is a proven liar, there's no point in even talking to you.

Because I have already seen what Trump does and I support it. I don't know what Biden will do if elected. So you agree that I am a "commie". LOL

Thanks...way to be civil.

lol, indeed

"I have already seen what Trump does and I support ongoing pandemics and tens of millions unemployed."

That was due to a foreign virus that crippled the WORLD. He did bad travel from China on Jan 24th. First US COVID death was February 29th, recorded death anyway. The unemployment is artificial and declining as states reopen.

Trump had a month to prepare for the virus and keep the economy in tact. He didn't. Look at us vs. the EU. Look at Florida right now. We're suffering because he's lazy and selfish and it's infected the majority of the GOP.

The unemployment is artificial, ok. I'm sure you weren't like "the unemployment numbers are so low" in January. Trump gets all credit and no blame, per usual.

Really?

Nicole Saphier, MD on Twitter: "While people continue to point fingers, let’s be clear the same people who claim that Trump and others downplayed the coronavirus also downplayed the coronavirus themselves. You know who you are. https://t.co/jSqyTYRHnn" / Twitter

If you don't want to be civil then why are you in this thread? And Florida has more cases but we are also testing more. Does it have more deaths and hospitalizations? What would you have done in Trump's shoes?

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2020 2:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2020 2:32:00 PM (view original):
It bears mentioning that the most "successful" countries at stifling the spread of Covid have primarily been island countries that have essentially isolated themselves (Iceland, New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan) It doesn't seem a "racist" a policy when you can just turn away boats and planes, as opposed to some poor dude that is just driving over the border...

Yet, when I suggested that, the tolerant Left immediately called me a racist. Interesting, right?

The "tolerant left" is an oxymoron. If you don't agree with their platforms, you're a fascist or a racist. And that's why the left will always have trouble gathering the center. And the funny thing is that they're always doubling down on the rhetoric despite alienating the middle (who are essentially just trying to be left alone)...

You have people on the right who do the exact same thing, and on top of that, scream "Jews will not replace us." Calm down.

Posted by coreander on 6/22/2020 2:43:00 PM (view original):
You know why I jumped to the conclusion that closing borders was racist? Because you supported a candidate who's second most popular campaign slogan was "build the wall." A saying, by the way, that many high schools and colleges have banned because of its racist intent. So, yeah, pretty easy to connect the dots. Defund the police.

So because I voted form DJT it makes me racist? Or is it because I wanted to ban all tourism and immigration? So because several HS and colleges banned free speech it makes me racist?

Then by your operational definition I am racist. It was nice speaking with you. If you Defund the police and someone steals my car, who do I call?

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Uofa2 on 6/22/2020 2:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Uofa2 on 6/22/2020 2:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2020 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rsp777 on 6/22/2020 2:10:00 PM (view original):
The commie not trusting the media or Biden when he backs the greatest LIAR in the history of LIARS is laughable.

The “over-hyped” well over hundred thousand DEAD BODIES are NOT laughable.

Keep it up commie. You never disappoint.

I have to agree with RSP here (and I don't agree with much he says). Not saying Biden is perfectly honest (He's a politician, so we know he isn't) but how can someone who supports Trump claim not to trust Biden? Trump continually lies about anything and everything. If you deny that Trump is a proven liar, there's no point in even talking to you.

Because I have already seen what Trump does and I support it. I don't know what Biden will do if elected. So you agree that I am a "commie". LOL

Thanks...way to be civil.

lol, indeed

"I have already seen what Trump does and I support ongoing pandemics and tens of millions unemployed."

That was due to a foreign virus that crippled the WORLD. He did bad travel from China on Jan 24th. First US COVID death was February 29th, recorded death anyway. The unemployment is artificial and declining as states reopen.

Trump had a month to prepare for the virus and keep the economy in tact. He didn't. Look at us vs. the EU. Look at Florida right now. We're suffering because he's lazy and selfish and it's infected the majority of the GOP.

The unemployment is artificial, ok. I'm sure you weren't like "the unemployment numbers are so low" in January. Trump gets all credit and no blame, per usual.

Really?

Nicole Saphier, MD on Twitter: "While people continue to point fingers, let’s be clear the same people who claim that Trump and others downplayed the coronavirus also downplayed the coronavirus themselves. You know who you are. https://t.co/jSqyTYRHnn" / Twitter

If you don't want to be civil then why are you in this thread? And Florida has more cases but we are also testing more. Does it have more deaths and hospitalizations? What would you have done in Trump's shoes?

What tang said. What the medical experts said.

Or I could've kept a cruise ship from entering the country because I liked the numbers where they were.

eta: and how was this uncivil?

Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 2:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2020 2:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2020 2:32:00 PM (view original):
It bears mentioning that the most "successful" countries at stifling the spread of Covid have primarily been island countries that have essentially isolated themselves (Iceland, New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan) It doesn't seem a "racist" a policy when you can just turn away boats and planes, as opposed to some poor dude that is just driving over the border...

Yet, when I suggested that, the tolerant Left immediately called me a racist. Interesting, right?

The "tolerant left" is an oxymoron. If you don't agree with their platforms, you're a fascist or a racist. And that's why the left will always have trouble gathering the center. And the funny thing is that they're always doubling down on the rhetoric despite alienating the middle (who are essentially just trying to be left alone)...

You have people on the right who do the exact same thing, and on top of that, scream "Jews will not replace us." Calm down.

Cool thing about being a Jew, tang, is that both sides seem to equally hate me for something I cannot control.

Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 2:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2020 2:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2020 2:32:00 PM (view original):
It bears mentioning that the most "successful" countries at stifling the spread of Covid have primarily been island countries that have essentially isolated themselves (Iceland, New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan) It doesn't seem a "racist" a policy when you can just turn away boats and planes, as opposed to some poor dude that is just driving over the border...

Yet, when I suggested that, the tolerant Left immediately called me a racist. Interesting, right?

The "tolerant left" is an oxymoron. If you don't agree with their platforms, you're a fascist or a racist. And that's why the left will always have trouble gathering the center. And the funny thing is that they're always doubling down on the rhetoric despite alienating the middle (who are essentially just trying to be left alone)...

You have people on the right who do the exact same thing, and on top of that, scream "Jews will not replace us." Calm down.

And I don't see, well, anyone backing core once they went full froth.

Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 2:40:00 PM (view original):
Here's what I would have done (and what the experts would have done):

Trump banned travel from China on the 24th. Good job Trump. Immediately after that decision, I would have instituted a wide-spread contact tracing program, as well as invoked the Defense Production Act and pumped out as many testing kits as possible. Even before the virus, experts were warning Trump that the US was NOT prepared for a pandemic. Before the virus hit, I would have developed a plan for what the US strategy is in case of a virus.

These steps were taken by countries such as South Korea, who was able to keep the virus at a minimum. Social distancing should have also been mandated far sooner. The complete shutdown should never have had to be enacted. It only happened because Trump waited for so long to address the virus; it was a last resort.

Trump's rhetoric on the pandemic has been horrible from the start. He has not endorsed masks (he doesn't wear them) and he keeps touting Hydroxychloroquin, even though the medical professionals told him not to.

Fair but the first death was not until February 29th. Look at what all the other so called experts did. Cuomo sent people back into nursing homes. We were all unprepared. If Trump did that on Jan 25th, I would have called him insane as we didn't have any cases here. Hindsight being 20/20 you're right but it is tough for me to play Monday Morning QB. Think about it, all of Europe made the same mistake and Russia too. We all downplayed this.

Nicole Saphier, MD on Twitter: "While people continue to point fingers, let’s be clear the same people who claim that Trump and others downplayed the coronavirus also downplayed the coronavirus themselves. You know who you are. https://t.co/jSqyTYRHnn" / Twitter

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 2:40:00 PM (view original):
Here's what I would have done (and what the experts would have done):

Trump banned travel from China on the 24th. Good job Trump. Immediately after that decision, I would have instituted a wide-spread contact tracing program, as well as invoked the Defense Production Act and pumped out as many testing kits as possible. Even before the virus, experts were warning Trump that the US was NOT prepared for a pandemic. Before the virus hit, I would have developed a plan for what the US strategy is in case of a virus.

These steps were taken by countries such as South Korea, who was able to keep the virus at a minimum. Social distancing should have also been mandated far sooner. The complete shutdown should never have had to be enacted. It only happened because Trump waited for so long to address the virus; it was a last resort.

Trump's rhetoric on the pandemic has been horrible from the start. He has not endorsed masks (he doesn't wear them) and he keeps touting Hydroxychloroquin, even though the medical professionals told him not to.

Fair but the first death was not until February 29th. Look at what all the other so called experts did. Cuomo sent people back into nursing homes. We were all unprepared. If Trump did that on Jan 25th, I would have called him insane as we didn't have any cases here. Hindsight being 20/20 you're right but it is tough for me to play Monday Morning QB. Think about it, all of Europe made the same mistake and Russia too. We all downplayed this.

Nicole Saphier, MD on Twitter: "While people continue to point fingers, let’s be clear the same people who claim that Trump and others downplayed the coronavirus also downplayed the coronavirus themselves. You know who you are. https://t.co/jSqyTYRHnn" / Twitter

.....and compare us to the EU today.....

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 2:40:00 PM (view original):
Here's what I would have done (and what the experts would have done):

Trump banned travel from China on the 24th. Good job Trump. Immediately after that decision, I would have instituted a wide-spread contact tracing program, as well as invoked the Defense Production Act and pumped out as many testing kits as possible. Even before the virus, experts were warning Trump that the US was NOT prepared for a pandemic. Before the virus hit, I would have developed a plan for what the US strategy is in case of a virus.

These steps were taken by countries such as South Korea, who was able to keep the virus at a minimum. Social distancing should have also been mandated far sooner. The complete shutdown should never have had to be enacted. It only happened because Trump waited for so long to address the virus; it was a last resort.

Trump's rhetoric on the pandemic has been horrible from the start. He has not endorsed masks (he doesn't wear them) and he keeps touting Hydroxychloroquin, even though the medical professionals told him not to.

Fair but the first death was not until February 29th. Look at what all the other so called experts did. Cuomo sent people back into nursing homes. We were all unprepared. If Trump did that on Jan 25th, I would have called him insane as we didn't have any cases here. Hindsight being 20/20 you're right but it is tough for me to play Monday Morning QB. Think about it, all of Europe made the same mistake and Russia too. We all downplayed this.

Nicole Saphier, MD on Twitter: "While people continue to point fingers, let’s be clear the same people who claim that Trump and others downplayed the coronavirus also downplayed the coronavirus themselves. You know who you are. https://t.co/jSqyTYRHnn" / Twitter

Well, no. What I suggested WAS the expert suggestion at the time. Europe was being hit before we did, so we had even more time to prepare. Even by the time deaths were rolling around, Trump was STILL doing nothing. He acted once it was too late, despite having over a month at least to prepare. There's no excuses for this. Trump ****** up, and a lot of people died when they didn't have to.

Well voting for DJT might not prove somebody is racist (though, personally my opinion is that it does) but at the very least it proves that racism is not a deal breaker for you in a candidate.