Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 3:31:00 PM (view original):
Well, no. What I suggested WAS the expert suggestion at the time. Europe was being hit before we did, so we had even more time to prepare. Even by the time deaths were rolling around, Trump was STILL doing nothing. He acted once it was too late, despite having over a month at least to prepare. There's no excuses for this. Trump ****** up, and a lot of people died when they didn't have to.


I did. Our first death was February 29th and my kids were done and home and I was sent home and still sit there on March 16th. So in what 2+ weeks we were shut down basically after the 1st death. Don't forget he was called Xenophobic for the China travel ban and Pelosi went on a walk through Chinatown. I also didn't see the Democrats during their debates state we should do contact tracing and shut the country down? Unless I missed it and I did watch the debates. Just being honest. And a lot of people died in NY/NJ but I don't blame Cuomo and Murphy, I blame China and the WHO for lying to us. I disagree with your last statement but you're getting emotional. So we can continue tomorrow when you cool off or not at all. Your call.

Good civil talk. Thank you for your time.

I'm not emotional. The pandemic doesn't exist in a vacuum. Europe was dealing with a crisis throughout February. Italy was shut down long before we were. Every expert knew that the pandemic was going to come to the US. Trump refusing to act until after we started getting deaths is unacceptable. We had more time to prepare because we actually got lucky; the pandemic hit Europe before it hit us. Trump downplayed it, and downplayed it, and downplayed it, and then all of a sudden, boom it's a pandemic. We could have stopped the virus from getting to this level. Now we have Trump literally admitting to slowing down testing (or attempting to) in order to make himself look better. That's a dealbreaker.

Even now, Trump is implicitly encouraging his supporters not to wear masks. That causes more people to die. Whether Democrats would have handled it better, we don't know for sure. We can never have a time machine. It's a good bet, though. Throughout February, Democrats were urging Trump to take action. This is a fact. By the time Trump banned travel from Europe, most every Democrat had said it was too late. Obama handled H1N1 far better than Trump handled COVID. I think we know that Trump cannot lead America through crisis. It would have been difficult to address COVID in a worse way than Trump did. Why not take a shot with Biden?

Since you didn't want to talk about immigration, let's talk about the economy. What policies has Trump passed that help the economy?

What's funny is that you think I am extreme. Anybody that votes for Trump proves that they do not view racism as a deal breaker in their candidate. How is that extreme? I think y'all are just old :)

For all of Biden's problems, I at least trust that he would listen to the medical experts. If Trump had paid attention, we would have done better. Even now, Trump supporters are blaming Fauci for the shutdown and saying that Trump should have relied on the experts less! How is this acceptable?

Posted by coreander on 6/22/2020 4:01:00 PM (view original):
What's funny is that you think I am extreme. Anybody that votes for Trump proves that they do not view racism as a deal breaker in their candidate. How is that extreme? I think y'all are just old :)

Literally everyone who just responded to you has been going on about how wrong it is to vote for Trump. You can’t even see the forest for the trees, kid.

Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 4:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 3:31:00 PM (view original):
Well, no. What I suggested WAS the expert suggestion at the time. Europe was being hit before we did, so we had even more time to prepare. Even by the time deaths were rolling around, Trump was STILL doing nothing. He acted once it was too late, despite having over a month at least to prepare. There's no excuses for this. Trump ****** up, and a lot of people died when they didn't have to.


I did. Our first death was February 29th and my kids were done and home and I was sent home and still sit there on March 16th. So in what 2+ weeks we were shut down basically after the 1st death. Don't forget he was called Xenophobic for the China travel ban and Pelosi went on a walk through Chinatown. I also didn't see the Democrats during their debates state we should do contact tracing and shut the country down? Unless I missed it and I did watch the debates. Just being honest. And a lot of people died in NY/NJ but I don't blame Cuomo and Murphy, I blame China and the WHO for lying to us. I disagree with your last statement but you're getting emotional. So we can continue tomorrow when you cool off or not at all. Your call.

Good civil talk. Thank you for your time.

I'm not emotional. The pandemic doesn't exist in a vacuum. Europe was dealing with a crisis throughout February. Italy was shut down long before we were. Every expert knew that the pandemic was going to come to the US. Trump refusing to act until after we started getting deaths is unacceptable. We had more time to prepare because we actually got lucky; the pandemic hit Europe before it hit us. Trump downplayed it, and downplayed it, and downplayed it, and then all of a sudden, boom it's a pandemic. We could have stopped the virus from getting to this level. Now we have Trump literally admitting to slowing down testing (or attempting to) in order to make himself look better. That's a dealbreaker.

Even now, Trump is implicitly encouraging his supporters not to wear masks. That causes more people to die. Whether Democrats would have handled it better, we don't know for sure. We can never have a time machine. It's a good bet, though. Throughout February, Democrats were urging Trump to take action. This is a fact. By the time Trump banned travel from Europe, most every Democrat had said it was too late. Obama handled H1N1 far better than Trump handled COVID. I think we know that Trump cannot lead America through crisis. It would have been difficult to address COVID in a worse way than Trump did. Why not take a shot with Biden?

Since you didn't want to talk about immigration, let's talk about the economy. What policies has Trump passed that help the economy?

Well said. I continue to admire your patience.

Posted by Uofa2 on 6/22/2020 2:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2020 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rsp777 on 6/22/2020 2:10:00 PM (view original):
The commie not trusting the media or Biden when he backs the greatest LIAR in the history of LIARS is laughable.

The “over-hyped” well over hundred thousand DEAD BODIES are NOT laughable.

Keep it up commie. You never disappoint.

I have to agree with RSP here (and I don't agree with much he says). Not saying Biden is perfectly honest (He's a politician, so we know he isn't) but how can someone who supports Trump claim not to trust Biden? Trump continually lies about anything and everything. If you deny that Trump is a proven liar, there's no point in even talking to you.

Because I have already seen what Trump does and I support it. I don't know what Biden will do if elected. So you agree that I am a "commie". LOL

Thanks...way to be civil.

lol, indeed

"I have already seen what Trump does and I support ongoing pandemics and tens of millions unemployed."

right, you know I was not agreeing with that part of it, dude. And you've called me more names than I have ever called you. The worst I've said about you is you were a hypocrite when you complained because bad luck said anyone who voted for Trump was an idiot, but you had no problem saying any Jew who voted democratic was a traitor. Both those statements are idiotic.

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2020 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2020 1:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 1:23:00 PM (view original):
#1) If you're not going to read what I write, why debate? COVID-19 is relatively mild. I want a full policy on how we screen all visitors and potential immigrants and asylum seekers. What stops someone from a foreign country of sending an infected person to poison us again. I need more data. I need scientists and medical doctors to opine on how we do that. So for now we close the borders and limit travel from other countries to people who do it for political reasons or the military. I am not sure what the right answer is but keeping things the way they were cannot happen. The whole playbook needs to be scrapped and re-written from scratch. For example Sweden never locked down. I would not allow people from Sweden here until we have a vaccine and then see what we do going forward based on other potential illnesses. Now going forward we have to be prepared for anything and everything. This is the new normal.

#2) Wall Street Journal or anything that is fact based. Nothing opinion based. For example I don't need a link to show you that Israel's embassy is now in Jerusalem. Showing me links from CNN on how evil our border security is...is not productive. I don't trust our media. They lied about COVID-19, they have been lying to us for years. Only media I trust remotely is the WSJ.

#3) I am a COVID-19 survivor and I use that term anecdotally because the media overplayed and over hyped this illness.

We are in a new normal and I will be voting as such going forward.

relatively mild??? tell that to the 100,000 plus who have died, or the millions who have lost their jobs.

How do you know the media has "over hyped" this illness? Since you don't trust the media. Has the WSJ said the illness has been over hyped? What so called facts do you have to back this claim up?

#1) Of those who died the majority are from nursing homes and were on death's door. Very few died who didn't have underlying conditions. Relatively means its not a global killer like the Spanish Flu was where ~50mil died.

#2) I know because I had it. I know because if you're healthy it is no worse than a bad cold and most have zero symptoms. My wife only lost taste and smell for a few weeks.

#3) They over hyped it because every outlet made it sound like the black plague.

let's see..the spanish flu ws back in 1918. You don't think that there have been some medical advances in 102 years? Do you think if the covid19 virus struck in 1918 the results would be similar to what happen with the spanish flu.
So its okay if the old folks die, as long as you are okay? That seems like a typical Trump supporter view of things. My 91 year old mother lives in a nursing facility and they have already had 2 residents and two staff members test positive. The residents were elderly, but the staff members were not. I am very worried about my mom's health, even if she is elderly.

#1) I do not believe Spanish Flu was not as contagious but much more deadly. Apples and oranges. But I do not know either. 102 years and we just locked down the world! So you tell me. And we still cannot agree when and how to reopen.

#2) When did I say it was OK for them to die? They are at higher risk but at 91 someone could die anyway as statistically they have lived beyond the average lifespan. It sucks and my parents are younger but I am careful with them. On the bright side the virus seems to be weakening. Hopefully your mother is OK and lives to be 100. We need policies to protect the vulnerable while allowing the rest to live their lives as best they can.

right. it was much more deadly because it was freaking 1918!! Who knows how many the corona virus would have killed in 1918. I sure don't, and neither do you. You're the one who brought up the spanish flu, but as you say, you can't compare them. Apples and oranges.

Your response that " Of those who died the majority are from nursing homes and were on death's door " certainly appeared to me that you were saying they were going to die soon anyway. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's the way it came across to me.

I hope my mom is okay too, but I really don't want her to live to be 100...she already makes me crazy. If she lives that much linger I will undoubtably be certifiable! LOL

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2020 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rsp777 on 6/22/2020 2:10:00 PM (view original):
The commie not trusting the media or Biden when he backs the greatest LIAR in the history of LIARS is laughable.

The “over-hyped” well over hundred thousand DEAD BODIES are NOT laughable.

Keep it up commie. You never disappoint.

I have to agree with RSP here (and I don't agree with much he says). Not saying Biden is perfectly honest (He's a politician, so we know he isn't) but how can someone who supports Trump claim not to trust Biden? Trump continually lies about anything and everything. If you deny that Trump is a proven liar, there's no point in even talking to you.

Because I have already seen what Trump does and I support it. I don't know what Biden will do if elected. So you agree that I am a "commie". LOL

Thanks...way to be civil.

Is it fair to ask to take Biden at his word?

I can't debate you on Biden's positions if you just assume that he's lying. How could I (or Biden) possibly prove to you that he actually will try to enact what he says he will? Doesn't that sound like a conspiracy theory?

He can debate Trump and succinctly state these positions. I do not trust that the radical Left will not influence him and I do not believe he will make it through the 4 years. He seems slow to me. Just my opinion. If his VP is a Leftist then it goes against what I support. Hence Trump is the safer choice for me.

to me, that's sad that any reasonably intelligent human being ( and I do think cccp is reasonably intelligent) thinks Trump, a proven liar and conman, is a better choice than just about anyone.

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2020 2:32:00 PM (view original):
It bears mentioning that the most "successful" countries at stifling the spread of Covid have primarily been island countries that have essentially isolated themselves (Iceland, New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan) It doesn't seem a "racist" a policy when you can just turn away boats and planes, as opposed to some poor dude that is just driving over the border...

Yet, when I suggested that, the tolerant Left immediately called me a racist. Interesting, right?

who called you a racist? One person calling you a racist, does not equal "the tolerant left" calling you a racist. especially if that one person is coreander...he/she/it/they is as far from the reasonable left as you are!

Well, Comrade. You're getting your wish. Trump shut down the H-1B program today. It was never about illegal immigration. Trump hates legal, HIGH SKILL immigration as well. And the program isn't coming back after 'rona.

Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2020 4:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/22/2020 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/22/2020 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rsp777 on 6/22/2020 2:10:00 PM (view original):
The commie not trusting the media or Biden when he backs the greatest LIAR in the history of LIARS is laughable.

The “over-hyped” well over hundred thousand DEAD BODIES are NOT laughable.

Keep it up commie. You never disappoint.

I have to agree with RSP here (and I don't agree with much he says). Not saying Biden is perfectly honest (He's a politician, so we know he isn't) but how can someone who supports Trump claim not to trust Biden? Trump continually lies about anything and everything. If you deny that Trump is a proven liar, there's no point in even talking to you.

Because I have already seen what Trump does and I support it. I don't know what Biden will do if elected. So you agree that I am a "commie". LOL

Thanks...way to be civil.

Is it fair to ask to take Biden at his word?

I can't debate you on Biden's positions if you just assume that he's lying. How could I (or Biden) possibly prove to you that he actually will try to enact what he says he will? Doesn't that sound like a conspiracy theory?

He can debate Trump and succinctly state these positions. I do not trust that the radical Left will not influence him and I do not believe he will make it through the 4 years. He seems slow to me. Just my opinion. If his VP is a Leftist then it goes against what I support. Hence Trump is the safer choice for me.

to me, that's sad that any reasonably intelligent human being ( and I do think cccp is reasonably intelligent) thinks Trump, a proven liar and conman, is a better choice than just about anyone.

Well, HRC was probably an even worse liar (or better liar, depending on your perspective) and scumbag, so that explains how Trump got there...

Personally, I thought they were both horrible choices (plus I'm in CA, so either way, my vote meant nothing), so I voted for that Libertarian dude. A well-meaning dolt seemed preferable to a couple of megalomaniacal, egotistical, pathological liars. Pretty sure that most of us have more scruples than the two of them combined....

I thought they were both terrible choices as well. I just happen to think Trump was the worst of the two (and have seen nothing to change my mind). I voted for HRC with much distaste, and I would do so again
I don't know how you can say HRC is a worse liar. Far be it from me to defend her, but Trump lies about everything, whether it makes any sense to lie about it or not. I really do think he is a pathological liar who can't help himself. I think HRC is just the epitome of a politician who lies to improve his or her position. Both are awful, but in my opinion, Trump is worse.

Exactly! I was in that same boat. Besides that "well-meaning dolt" actually had a real good record as Gov. of New Mexico.
Folks liked much of what he did and He left the State in solid financial shape from what I've read.

The claim that HRC is a worse liar is factually untrue. Trump lies more. That said, she was a horrific candidate, and single-handedly blew the easiest election win for Democrats in a long time. Joe Biden would have crushed Trump in 16. Unfortunately, Trump is stronger this time around.

Posted by tangplay on 6/22/2020 7:25:00 PM (view original):
The claim that HRC is a worse liar is factually untrue. Trump lies more. That said, she was a horrific candidate, and single-handedly blew the easiest election win for Democrats in a long time. Joe Biden would have crushed Trump in 16. Unfortunately, Trump is stronger this time around.

1. She wasn’t. She won the popular vote and lost because of an incredible needle thread by Trump where he needed to the entire sky to align.
2. No electoral win is easy anymore, as evident by 2016. And 2008 was easier.
3. Trump is so much weaker now it’s not funny. We KNOW what he’s capable of now.
4. Comparing Trump and HRC is the fever dream of a Breitbart comment section. Sorry, the Clinton foundation didn’t have to shut down and pay fines, there was no Clinton university, and bringing up Epstein is arguably a point in Hillary’s favor. False equivalence meant to make people feel better by not voting for the woman in public service for decades instead of the tax cheat because Rush calls her Killary. Oh yeah, never mind, she’s a serial killer right? Yeah, no, totally sound factual takes on HRC.