Posted by teamvip on 9/4/2018 5:42:00 PM (view original):
That's really interesting. To be clear, I've never informed a D1 prospect who wanted to play that they would be redshirted prior to getting them to "Moderate" and offering them a scholarship. I've dropped back down to Low or Very Low and fallen behind some other schools on occasion when doing this, but never had everything zero-out. I understand not wanting to put anymore points into them at that point because it's a losing battle but from a strategic perspective I'd be very curious if a player becomes completely closed off if you make them too angry too early.

Way I see it there are really only two potential outcomes:

a) Recruits who get angry early in the process can, in fact, become locked doors that a coach is unable to open - regardless of AP/HVs etc. Bad first impression ruined the relationship.
b) The reset of this player going back to 0% on all things is just the way the negative reaction processed when only 10 APs have been applied (or 80 like Miami's example). When there is a scholarship and the recruit is at Moderate, it manifests as a drop (sometimes) down to Low or Very Low (my current guy was unhappy but stayed at Moderate). When there is only a handful of APs, it just zeroes things out. Player could be built back over time but more APs would be required as you are now working against a "Very Bad" preference that was previously Neutral.

Still yet to see an example of a recruit that had over 80 attention pts applied to them that become completely unapproachable after being informed of a RS. And still no evidence that these recruits who zeroed out were completely closed off to future efforts. But it's all good. People are gonna recruit the way they recruit. But Bang4theW, to answer your initial question in this thread, IN MY OPINION, you absolutely could have signed that player and informed him of a redshirt regardless of his preference. Just would have needed to warm him up a bit, offered the scholly, and then been prepared to at least drop a HV or dedicate some APs to reversing the damage of the RS. Tough to do in a battle against humans, esp when someone might go the other way and promise him minutes. Or when you're spread thin in battles for other players. But by yourself or against low-level sims - that guy is redshirting next season. Just don't inform them of a RS after 20 APs. Feels like that should go without saying now.

I’m pretty sure folks tried this in beta - dumping lots of points into a guy who dropped them from consideration - and it didn’t move the needle, even revoking the redshirt.

Posted by shoe3 on 9/4/2018 8:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by teamvip on 9/4/2018 5:42:00 PM (view original):
That's really interesting. To be clear, I've never informed a D1 prospect who wanted to play that they would be redshirted prior to getting them to "Moderate" and offering them a scholarship. I've dropped back down to Low or Very Low and fallen behind some other schools on occasion when doing this, but never had everything zero-out. I understand not wanting to put anymore points into them at that point because it's a losing battle but from a strategic perspective I'd be very curious if a player becomes completely closed off if you make them too angry too early.

Way I see it there are really only two potential outcomes:

a) Recruits who get angry early in the process can, in fact, become locked doors that a coach is unable to open - regardless of AP/HVs etc. Bad first impression ruined the relationship.
b) The reset of this player going back to 0% on all things is just the way the negative reaction processed when only 10 APs have been applied (or 80 like Miami's example). When there is a scholarship and the recruit is at Moderate, it manifests as a drop (sometimes) down to Low or Very Low (my current guy was unhappy but stayed at Moderate). When there is only a handful of APs, it just zeroes things out. Player could be built back over time but more APs would be required as you are now working against a "Very Bad" preference that was previously Neutral.

Still yet to see an example of a recruit that had over 80 attention pts applied to them that become completely unapproachable after being informed of a RS. And still no evidence that these recruits who zeroed out were completely closed off to future efforts. But it's all good. People are gonna recruit the way they recruit. But Bang4theW, to answer your initial question in this thread, IN MY OPINION, you absolutely could have signed that player and informed him of a redshirt regardless of his preference. Just would have needed to warm him up a bit, offered the scholly, and then been prepared to at least drop a HV or dedicate some APs to reversing the damage of the RS. Tough to do in a battle against humans, esp when someone might go the other way and promise him minutes. Or when you're spread thin in battles for other players. But by yourself or against low-level sims - that guy is redshirting next season. Just don't inform them of a RS after 20 APs. Feels like that should go without saying now.

I’m pretty sure folks tried this in beta - dumping lots of points into a guy who dropped them from consideration - and it didn’t move the needle, even revoking the redshirt.

Super-old thread, but this is a dilemma I'm facing now, and shoe3's comment is my experience.

After my first season (when I stupidly informed a guy of redshirt who wanted to play), I've never tried "inform of redshirt" on anyone but kids who have no preference for whether they play right away. Every one of them has ghosted me. No amount of attention points has gotten me back on their radar, even for guys with nobody else courting them. Rescinding my "inform of redshirt" didn't help. I was toast.

Now, all these are D2 guys I'm chasing from D3. And it's only seven or eight players, so a small sample.

But I'm in agreement as well with someone much further up the thread who says informing a recruit of a redshirt is pointless -- counterproductive, in fact -- in D3. I'll just recruit guys with no playing preference, try to redshirt them once on campus, and rescind that if they flip out. (Which a no-preference FR PG did to me last season.) Or else try the method of not playing them at all, then offering the redshirt after the bulk of the season is gone.

Posted by GlennECraven on 2/20/2020 2:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 9/4/2018 8:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by teamvip on 9/4/2018 5:42:00 PM (view original):
That's really interesting. To be clear, I've never informed a D1 prospect who wanted to play that they would be redshirted prior to getting them to "Moderate" and offering them a scholarship. I've dropped back down to Low or Very Low and fallen behind some other schools on occasion when doing this, but never had everything zero-out. I understand not wanting to put anymore points into them at that point because it's a losing battle but from a strategic perspective I'd be very curious if a player becomes completely closed off if you make them too angry too early.

Way I see it there are really only two potential outcomes:

a) Recruits who get angry early in the process can, in fact, become locked doors that a coach is unable to open - regardless of AP/HVs etc. Bad first impression ruined the relationship.
b) The reset of this player going back to 0% on all things is just the way the negative reaction processed when only 10 APs have been applied (or 80 like Miami's example). When there is a scholarship and the recruit is at Moderate, it manifests as a drop (sometimes) down to Low or Very Low (my current guy was unhappy but stayed at Moderate). When there is only a handful of APs, it just zeroes things out. Player could be built back over time but more APs would be required as you are now working against a "Very Bad" preference that was previously Neutral.

Still yet to see an example of a recruit that had over 80 attention pts applied to them that become completely unapproachable after being informed of a RS. And still no evidence that these recruits who zeroed out were completely closed off to future efforts. But it's all good. People are gonna recruit the way they recruit. But Bang4theW, to answer your initial question in this thread, IN MY OPINION, you absolutely could have signed that player and informed him of a redshirt regardless of his preference. Just would have needed to warm him up a bit, offered the scholly, and then been prepared to at least drop a HV or dedicate some APs to reversing the damage of the RS. Tough to do in a battle against humans, esp when someone might go the other way and promise him minutes. Or when you're spread thin in battles for other players. But by yourself or against low-level sims - that guy is redshirting next season. Just don't inform them of a RS after 20 APs. Feels like that should go without saying now.

I’m pretty sure folks tried this in beta - dumping lots of points into a guy who dropped them from consideration - and it didn’t move the needle, even revoking the redshirt.

Super-old thread, but this is a dilemma I'm facing now, and shoe3's comment is my experience.

After my first season (when I stupidly informed a guy of redshirt who wanted to play), I've never tried "inform of redshirt" on anyone but kids who have no preference for whether they play right away. Every one of them has ghosted me. No amount of attention points has gotten me back on their radar, even for guys with nobody else courting them. Rescinding my "inform of redshirt" didn't help. I was toast.

Now, all these are D2 guys I'm chasing from D3. And it's only seven or eight players, so a small sample.

But I'm in agreement as well with someone much further up the thread who says informing a recruit of a redshirt is pointless -- counterproductive, in fact -- in D3. I'll just recruit guys with no playing preference, try to redshirt them once on campus, and rescind that if they flip out. (Which a no-preference FR PG did to me last season.) Or else try the method of not playing them at all, then offering the redshirt after the bulk of the season is gone.

Nothing wrong with those choices you suggested. Or you could just not redshirt at all. It's not the end of the world.

Posted by teamvip on 9/4/2018 5:42:00 PM (view original):
That's really interesting. To be clear, I've never informed a D1 prospect who wanted to play that they would be redshirted prior to getting them to "Moderate" and offering them a scholarship. I've dropped back down to Low or Very Low and fallen behind some other schools on occasion when doing this, but never had everything zero-out. I understand not wanting to put anymore points into them at that point because it's a losing battle but from a strategic perspective I'd be very curious if a player becomes completely closed off if you make them too angry too early.

Way I see it there are really only two potential outcomes:

a) Recruits who get angry early in the process can, in fact, become locked doors that a coach is unable to open - regardless of AP/HVs etc. Bad first impression ruined the relationship.
b) The reset of this player going back to 0% on all things is just the way the negative reaction processed when only 10 APs have been applied (or 80 like Miami's example). When there is a scholarship and the recruit is at Moderate, it manifests as a drop (sometimes) down to Low or Very Low (my current guy was unhappy but stayed at Moderate). When there is only a handful of APs, it just zeroes things out. Player could be built back over time but more APs would be required as you are now working against a "Very Bad" preference that was previously Neutral.

Still yet to see an example of a recruit that had over 80 attention pts applied to them that become completely unapproachable after being informed of a RS. And still no evidence that these recruits who zeroed out were completely closed off to future efforts. But it's all good. People are gonna recruit the way they recruit. But Bang4theW, to answer your initial question in this thread, IN MY OPINION, you absolutely could have signed that player and informed him of a redshirt regardless of his preference. Just would have needed to warm him up a bit, offered the scholly, and then been prepared to at least drop a HV or dedicate some APs to reversing the damage of the RS. Tough to do in a battle against humans, esp when someone might go the other way and promise him minutes. Or when you're spread thin in battles for other players. But by yourself or against low-level sims - that guy is redshirting next season. Just don't inform them of a RS after 20 APs. Feels like that should go without saying now.

I’m currently in a weird situation just like this and I’m getting nervous. I am a rebuilding D2 with C- prestige. I’ve signed 3 guys ranked 70s and 87 with not too much effort. I have a 148SF (not high) that I offered. His signing time is “whenever”. In cycle 1 when moderate, I informed of redshirt while giving 2 HVs and 20 APs at the time. Had 5HVs and 275 APs and moderate at end of cycle 1. Only school recruiting himhim. He jumped to very high. At start of cycle 2. 3 processes with 10-15 APs per and no signing. Threw in another home visit and still no signing, now 6 HPs and 315 HVs, and only school. I want to save a couple more HVs for another recruit but I’m getting nervous

Posted by GlennECraven on 2/20/2020 2:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 9/4/2018 8:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by teamvip on 9/4/2018 5:42:00 PM (view original):
That's really interesting. To be clear, I've never informed a D1 prospect who wanted to play that they would be redshirted prior to getting them to "Moderate" and offering them a scholarship. I've dropped back down to Low or Very Low and fallen behind some other schools on occasion when doing this, but never had everything zero-out. I understand not wanting to put anymore points into them at that point because it's a losing battle but from a strategic perspective I'd be very curious if a player becomes completely closed off if you make them too angry too early.

Way I see it there are really only two potential outcomes:

a) Recruits who get angry early in the process can, in fact, become locked doors that a coach is unable to open - regardless of AP/HVs etc. Bad first impression ruined the relationship.
b) The reset of this player going back to 0% on all things is just the way the negative reaction processed when only 10 APs have been applied (or 80 like Miami's example). When there is a scholarship and the recruit is at Moderate, it manifests as a drop (sometimes) down to Low or Very Low (my current guy was unhappy but stayed at Moderate). When there is only a handful of APs, it just zeroes things out. Player could be built back over time but more APs would be required as you are now working against a "Very Bad" preference that was previously Neutral.

Still yet to see an example of a recruit that had over 80 attention pts applied to them that become completely unapproachable after being informed of a RS. And still no evidence that these recruits who zeroed out were completely closed off to future efforts. But it's all good. People are gonna recruit the way they recruit. But Bang4theW, to answer your initial question in this thread, IN MY OPINION, you absolutely could have signed that player and informed him of a redshirt regardless of his preference. Just would have needed to warm him up a bit, offered the scholly, and then been prepared to at least drop a HV or dedicate some APs to reversing the damage of the RS. Tough to do in a battle against humans, esp when someone might go the other way and promise him minutes. Or when you're spread thin in battles for other players. But by yourself or against low-level sims - that guy is redshirting next season. Just don't inform them of a RS after 20 APs. Feels like that should go without saying now.

I’m pretty sure folks tried this in beta - dumping lots of points into a guy who dropped them from consideration - and it didn’t move the needle, even revoking the redshirt.

Super-old thread, but this is a dilemma I'm facing now, and shoe3's comment is my experience.

After my first season (when I stupidly informed a guy of redshirt who wanted to play), I've never tried "inform of redshirt" on anyone but kids who have no preference for whether they play right away. Every one of them has ghosted me. No amount of attention points has gotten me back on their radar, even for guys with nobody else courting them. Rescinding my "inform of redshirt" didn't help. I was toast.

Now, all these are D2 guys I'm chasing from D3. And it's only seven or eight players, so a small sample.

But I'm in agreement as well with someone much further up the thread who says informing a recruit of a redshirt is pointless -- counterproductive, in fact -- in D3. I'll just recruit guys with no playing preference, try to redshirt them once on campus, and rescind that if they flip out. (Which a no-preference FR PG did to me last season.) Or else try the method of not playing them at all, then offering the redshirt after the bulk of the season is gone.

the reason for this is mostly that players have a sense of self worth which is compared to the prestige/level of the program, and basically, if they consider you beneath them, things like redshirts are going to be very tricky. i would expect d3 programs recruiting out of d1/d2 would have very bad luck informing of redshirt. conversely, an a+ prestige d1 schoool is going to have no problem doing it on 0* players, who consider themselves beneath the a+ program.

I use inform of redshirt a lot. I get burned a lot bc I only use it when I think it can’t fail (lots of attention and a clear shot at winning a battle even with it, or lots of attention And no competition at all). In my experience the recruit, strangely enough, is more likely to shun you if he has NO preference for playing time. It’s like how when you’re in a battle, whoever has the lowest % chance, as long as they’re high or very high, normally wins. Some things I don’t get. I’m completely torn on sending this inform of RS at 5:00. Will update

There’s no way it’s worse with no preference, I realized since then I always put much more effort to inform a guy who wants to play, so that’s the correlation. Ready for 5:00

Accepted. 5 was the first cycle of signings. 17 HV and a CV so far. D2 school D2 prospect, we’re at very high still w the D3 at moderate (they can’t go higher than that til after he’d sign - by end of P1). Should be good to go. Very positive result for the inform button. Needed to RS to make my minutes work out next season. Still only going to use every other season or so. That’s 2 seasons in a row though, much more frequently than it normally works for me

Posted by zemedlin on 6/29/2020 5:09:00 PM (view original):
Accepted. 5 was the first cycle of signings. 17 HV and a CV so far. D2 school D2 prospect, we’re at very high still w the D3 at moderate (they can’t go higher than that til after he’d sign - by end of P1). Should be good to go. Very positive result for the inform button. Needed to RS to make my minutes work out next season. Still only going to use every other season or so. That’s 2 seasons in a row though, much more frequently than it normally works for me

What helped the situation is the effort. When using the redshirt tool, offering those 17 HV makes the redshirt tool become a reality. If you offer a redshirt with 0 HV, your chances aren't as high that he'll accept. Also the fact that it's a D2 prospect for a D2 school makes it more reasonable that he will accept. So in this case I'm not surprised.

Where it gets a lil hairy is when a D2 school is chasing D1 pool prospects, offering 0 HV, and expecting the recruit to accept the redshirt..... it becomes a different story at times

Very true top Dogg, I also had a D2 out in Cali 2 seasons ago gave 12 HV and a CV and he shunned after the inform. Had 100 AP and great preferences, the preferences weren’t good this time around, And In this current case I only had 70 AP. Both no preference Playing time. It’s all strange But that’s what you get with dice rolls. Dice rolls and comradery are what keep me interested in the game i guess lol. The guy still hasn’t signed but I’m still at very high. Hoping he honors is end of period 1 lol

Posted by zemedlin on 6/30/2020 9:08:00 PM (view original):
Very true top Dogg, I also had a D2 out in Cali 2 seasons ago gave 12 HV and a CV and he shunned after the inform. Had 100 AP and great preferences, the preferences weren’t good this time around, And In this current case I only had 70 AP. Both no preference Playing time. It’s all strange But that’s what you get with dice rolls. Dice rolls and comradery are what keep me interested in the game i guess lol. The guy still hasn’t signed but I’m still at very high. Hoping he honors is end of period 1 lol

I'm not sure your experience level, but just to be helpful if you're unaware...... you mentioned having 100 AP, and 70 AP.....

?It's beneficial to load up AP on recruits too. I know this thread title says "No competition". But it's not uncommon for me to have 1000 AP on a player I'm battling for. Also, I've never tracked this, but maybe loading up AP on these players you're trying to redshirt by using the inform option will help too. Like say 800 AP and your 12 HV, maybe that gets it done.

(If you're experienced and knew this already, sorry if I insulted your having ability! I didn't look at your profile)

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/30/2020 9:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zemedlin on 6/30/2020 9:08:00 PM (view original):
Very true top Dogg, I also had a D2 out in Cali 2 seasons ago gave 12 HV and a CV and he shunned after the inform. Had 100 AP and great preferences, the preferences weren’t good this time around, And In this current case I only had 70 AP. Both no preference Playing time. It’s all strange But that’s what you get with dice rolls. Dice rolls and comradery are what keep me interested in the game i guess lol. The guy still hasn’t signed but I’m still at very high. Hoping he honors is end of period 1 lol

I'm not sure your experience level, but just to be helpful if you're unaware...... you mentioned having 100 AP, and 70 AP.....

?It's beneficial to load up AP on recruits too. I know this thread title says "No competition". But it's not uncommon for me to have 1000 AP on a player I'm battling for. Also, I've never tracked this, but maybe loading up AP on these players you're trying to redshirt by using the inform option will help too. Like say 800 AP and your 12 HV, maybe that gets it done.

(If you're experienced and knew this already, sorry if I insulted your having ability! I didn't look at your profile)

Yeah I did know that, but no problem! In both cases I had a higher priority on other players or I would’ve had attention more like what you’re saying. Appreciate it though!

Old thread, but I've never tried using the Inform of RS tool before in any of my roughly 50 seasons or so except for few seasons ago on my A+ prestige D2 team. I found a diamond-in-the-rough D2 recruit with 8 greens and 2 blues and even though his overall was pretty low to start (like 460s), I really wanted this guy for the future only. I absolutely needed him to RS or he wouldn't really play until the following year (I had depth covered). I thought it would be a battle from the get go, but no one else was considering him when recruiting started. I unlocked his scholarship with less than 20 AP, but didn't offer. Instead (stupidly) informed him of a RS first, planning to offer later since I didn't want him to sign until the end of P1 (since I was the only one on his consider list, I could keep the extra 20 AP each cycle on other recruits - he was by End of P1 pref).

Well, it backfired. I disappeared from the considering list and was at 0% unlock scholarship. I thought "ok, let's unlock it again with 20 AP" - ...still 0%. I decided to withdraw the "inform of RS" and immediately went up to Very High. But he then had a "Informed of Non-RS" tag on him. ... I wasn't sure what to do. Because I withdrew informing him, now he thinks I'm guaranteeing him not to be a RS? Bizarre. ...I ended up deciding to go for another recruit instead of risking the chances with him needing to play FR year. I could've played him or even just let him sit, but I wanted the extra year so he'd be super solid as a JR/S, plus I was contending for a NT and I ended up finding a pretty suitable other option anyway.

Has anyone experienced that? Where you informed of RS, then withdrew since he shut you out and then he was tagged "inform of non-RS"? And what happens after that? Could you still RS him without the increased chance of losing WE? Could I have offered him and informed him of a RS again? That's the question I think about the most. I could've at least tried it.

I should point out that he did not have a Wants to Play preference and his WE was in the 60s, so he was definitely going to get good with those greens.

I think back on what he could've become on my team and I'm in a similar situation again, afraid to commit to informing him of a RS, but I'd really like him to.

Yes it happens often. Just don't use the redshirt recruiting tool. It's not that bad to have a guy on your roster that needs development anyways. I start guys like that. It's not a huge deal. And also I'd keep trying to redshirt him each season. He'll probably take it at some point. (And if it's later, like Soph or Jr year, the extra WE built up will help the redshirt year growth)

I've found if you have depth at the position of a player you want to redshirt he will usually accept it if he's the worst of the players in that depth chart. I don't think I've ever had a player turn down a redshirt if he was the 3rd best at his position on the team.