I would like to do this theme again, with a slight modification (in order for a slightly different drafting experience). Lump group 2 and group 3 together into one group (group 2). Allow 3 group 1 teams, and 2 group 2 teams. Maybe even change the salary cap ($140M or even no cap).

I actually liked this format. It made you have to think about taking a slightly worse option first, to make sure you got a decent Group 2 or 3 team. Under your proposed format, there wouldn’t be as much strategy. Most people wouldn’t hesitate to go Group 1 in the first round.

Posted by schwarze on 8/5/2020 12:34:00 PM (view original):
This is not hard. Starting with Group 2 & 3, I already have 1250 solid innings with...

1969-73 Mets ('71 Seaver, '69 Koosman, '72 McGraw)
2010-14 (or 2011-15) Angels ('11 Weaver, '14 G.Richards or '14 J.Smith)
1993-97 Marlins ('96 K.Brown, '93 B.Harvey)

With these three selections, I can also add a stud Mike Trout ('12, '13 or '15 Angels) plus a decent backup catcher in '97 Gregg Zaun (Marlins). If I need OF plate appearances, I could add '95 Sheffield (311 pa, 1.040 ops). If I didn't want to take Koosman, I could add '69 Cleon Jones.

There are a number of Group 1 team combinations where I could fill in the remaining batters + 1-2 pitchers. I bet this team would be very competive.

Well...to start with the obvious, the 1969-73 Mets are not available.

I do think it's possible to put together a decent team, but I would be really surprised if anyone could put together a team at this point that would be a strong playoff contender

Duh... Not sure why I thought they were. I could shift to the 1974-78 Mets and get '77 Seaver and '74 Matlock plus they have some RP options as well.

Posted by Jtpsops on 8/5/2020 3:51:00 PM (view original):
I actually liked this format. It made you have to think about taking a slightly worse option first, to make sure you got a decent Group 2 or 3 team. Under your proposed format, there wouldn’t be as much strategy. Most people wouldn’t hesitate to go Group 1 in the first round.

I'm not saying I didn't like this format. But if this is run again using the same format and same salary cap, everybody kind of knows the strategy now and knows what the good options are. A lot of the same combinations would be taken, and the group B and C options would get picked even earlier. It's always good to tweak things to keep it fresh.

Posted by schwarze on 8/5/2020 4:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 8/5/2020 3:51:00 PM (view original):
I actually liked this format. It made you have to think about taking a slightly worse option first, to make sure you got a decent Group 2 or 3 team. Under your proposed format, there wouldn’t be as much strategy. Most people wouldn’t hesitate to go Group 1 in the first round.

I'm not saying I didn't like this format. But if this is run again using the same format and same salary cap, everybody kind of knows the strategy now and knows what the good options are. A lot of the same combinations would be taken, and the group B and C options would get picked even earlier. It's always good to tweak things to keep it fresh.

If there is a third (I hope there is!) I am sure Contrarian will mix it up like he did after the first! I am excited and nervous to see the changes that are made!

I like using new players. I don't think I've ever used Ed Seward so I picked the early A's first. I also wanted to get that group out of the way. My thinking was that there were more than enough good choices in group 1 so I would wait for them until the last two rounds. I think it worked out. I have my typical team meaning offense first, pitching second and defense last. I play to have fun and I like me some offense.

Anyway, I like to research the history of players and I looked into a backup I drafted, Orator Shafer. Get this, in 1879 Orator Shafer set the mark for OF assists with 50! And he did it in just 73 games!!!

My best tool when I played was my arm and I love strong outfield arms. I love watching the famous throws (think Dave Parker in the '79 All-Star game). I would love to have seen Shafer nailing runners throughout that 1879 season. Shafer is 10th all-time in OF assists with 290 in just 854 games. Tris Speaker is the all-time leader with 449 in 2698 games. Shafer's pace would yield over 900 in that many games.

That’s an awesome stat! Thanks ybj!

If there is a third (I hope there is!) I am sure Contrarian will mix it up like he did after the first! I am excited and nervous to see the changes that are made

Something I’d love is to be able to use all the franchises that weren’t selected. I was looking at the Detroit Wolverines, and there are some fun guys on that 1885-1888 spread that couldn’t be picked, and I’m sure there’s some other fun ones I haven’t seen! Maybe instead of separating groups by franchises, separating them by era.

Group 1: Early years 1885-1930
Group 2: Golden years 1931-1980
Group 3: Liveball/Modern 1981-2019

Theoretically this would allow you to have 3 iterations of one team, and I feel other restrictions would need to play, but I don’t feel like putting too much time into it right now ha

Another possibility would be to separate it by leagues (AL/NL/other). Then everyone would need to have 2 NL teams, 2 AL teams, and 1 team from a defunct league.

Posted by Jtpsops on 8/5/2020 12:44:00 PM (view original):
I just realized I've had '94 Gwynn in my lineup this whole time instead of '97. So I have $2M extra. I can find a use for it, but I likely could've used one of the Tiger or Pirates groups I wanted. Blah.

Still can't believe what a boneheaded move this was. I have $900K left and no good place to spend it without reworking my entire roster.

In preparing for the draft, my #1 goal was to get solid pitching. I had worked on some lists (by franchise) of what I'd want to grab. When I saw that I'd be drafting sixth, it was just a waiting game to see what high inning starters were left. Note that all stats listed are the normalized numbers...

Round 1, pick # 6: 1886-1890 St. Louis Browns (Cardinals) [Group 1]
Didn't think that Silver King and friends would drop to #6, but I couldn't pass up 703 high quality innings. Comes with a lot of hitting as well, and I made the decision to take on Tip O'Neill and his 18.6M salary. This would make things interesting for me as the draft progressed (spent nearly 64M on the below five players); also pushed me into taking a real scrub catcher for the 1886 season (not the same variety of selection for low cap players during this era)...
1886 Rudy Kemmler backup C (154 PA, .144 / .206 / .172, D/A/A)
1887 Tip O'Neill, OF (687 PA, .429 / .485 / .697, D/B-)
1888 Silver King P (703 IP, .210 OAV, 0.95 WHIP, 0.15 HR/9)
1889 Jocko Milligan C (351 PA, .367 / .405 / .637, C-/A+/B+)
1890 Tommy McCarthy OF (750 PA, .356 / .430 / .494, D/C-)

Round 2, pick # 19: 1919-1923 Pittsburgh Pirates [Group 1]
Was looking for another high IP starter in round 2, and I saw that Babe Adams was still available. Was able to package him with Max Carey to provide A+ range in CF (along with 51/53 SB) and a very good (and relatively inexpensive) bat from Charlie Grimm at 1B. Also picked up Pie Traynor, but it was the 1920 version with 59 PA!
1919 Babe Adams P (307 IP, .223 OAV, 0.96 WHIP, 0.06 HR/9)
1920 Pie Traynor (59 PA scrub)
1921 Johnny Mokan (63 PA scrub)
1922 Max Carey OF (771 PA, .313 / .398 / .448 [51/53 SB], C/A+)
1923 Charlie Grimm 1B (646 PA, .331 / .382 / .473, A-/C-)

Round 3, pick # 19: 2010-2014 New York Mets [Group 2]
At this point I needed one more starter (or several high inning relievers). My plan was to start filling the bullpen here and then definitely in rounds 4-5 (with the large amount of modern franchises). Also needed starters around the infield (other then 1B). So looking at the Mets, I was able to nab 2013 Matt Harvey for my last high inning pitcher, 2011 Jose Reyes at SS, and 2012 David Wright at 3B. And the first of my many short inning relievers with 2014 Buddy Carlyle and his 31 IP...
2010 Alex Cora (194 PA scrub)
2011 Jose Reyes SS (586 PA, .343 / .389 / .489 [39/46 SB], B-/B-)
2012 David Wright 3B (670 PA, .311 / .397 / .483, A/C+)
2013 Matt Harvey P (178 IP, .215 OAV, 0.97 WHIP, 0.30 HR/9)
2014 Buddy Carlyle P (31 IP, .211 OAV, 0.95 WHIP, 0.51 HR/9)

Round 4, pick # 6: 1980-1984 Texas Rangers [Group 2]
At this point I am over 111M in salary, still need a starting 2b, plus several more quality low inning relievers. Obviously my 2B will have to be done on the cheap and I was able to find 1984 Curtis Wilkerson for just a hair over 2M. He's not good, but for that price and the 526 (switch hitting) PAs, I can live with his flaws (sub-.250 hitter, no power, B-/D- fielding). And he also comes along with three solid relievers (including 1981 John Butcher) that will help fill the bullpen. This will leave us with just over 2M to spend on the remaining five players...
1980 John Henry Johnson P (39 IP, .195 OAV, 1.08 WHIP, 0.41 HR/9)
1981 John Butcher P (43 IP, .189 OAV, 0.96 WHIP, 0.00 HR/9)
1982 Don Werner (65 PA scrub)
1983 Victor Cruz P (25 IP, .182 OAV, 1.04 WHIP, 0.63 HR/9)
1984 Curtis Wilkerson P (526 PA, .247 / .284 / .272, B-/D-)

Round 5, pick # 19: 2015-2019 Miami Marlins [Group 3]
The challenge with the last pick was to find five players that would fit under my remaining cap (just over 2M), another useful reliever, and some mop up level pitchers. Say hello to the last five years of the Marlins! 2017 Wei-Yin Chen is a decent bullpen arm for 913K, and three additional (sub-250K) arms will allow some flexibility in games that are out of reach. This allows me to get under the 120M cap by <4K.
2015 Nick Masset P (25 IP mop up)
2016 Jeff Francoeur (55 PA scrub)
2017 Wei-Yin Chen P (33 IP, .211 OAV, 1.04 WHIP, 0.56 HR/9)
2018 Dillon Peters P (28 IP mop up)
2019 Hector Noesi P (28 IP mop up)

Overall my team has 5577 PA and 1,440 IP (81 mop up). Going to play in Forbes Field which is a neutral park (+1 for singles, 0 for everything else), as giving up homers shouldn't be a problem for this staff. It's going to be a lot of Silver King and see what happens with the remaining pitchers. Looking forward to the season starting!

If you are counting all 700+ innings of Silver King in your total, you may end up with fatigue problems. Don't know too many people who are able to use all his innings.

Used him for the first time a few months ago and I admittedly left some effort on the table. Confident that I can squeeze almost all of the pitch count out of him this go around (which I'll need to be able to do!).

Like most people, I quickly realized Group 2 was going to be the challenging group, due to 2 picks and limited franchises. I had some obvious options come to mind right away:

• Mid-90s Padres with Brown, Hoffman and Gwynn
• Astros group built around ’86 Scott
• 80s Mets, including ’85 Gooden
• 2015-19 Mets, for bullpen and DeGrom
• 2015-19 Nationals with Scherzer, Rendon, Doolittle, Harper

I also immediately thought of the early-to-mid 90s Mariners (Johnson, Edgar, Griffey, ARod), and the early 2000s D’Backs (Gonzalez, Schilling, Unit) for Group 3.

My plan was to start with Group 2, however when I drew the third overall pick, I just couldn’t justify not going Group 1 and getting a few studs. The Indians are usually my go-to franchise for caps around this level, due to their stud-level players who provide good value. I probably could’ve done more research, but I was comfortable with my pick.

1907-1911 Indians

This group brought me ‘10 Lajoie (with flexibility between 1B and 2B), ’11 Jackson and ’09 Joss. I also had flexibility to switch to ‘08 stud Joss if something went wrong in the later rounds and I found myself with a lot of extra cash. ’08 Jack Ryan joins the pen and a scrub in ’07 Frank Delahanty.

1995-1999 Padres

I considered this group with my first pick, so I was pretty excited when they were still on the board. Kevin Brown is always reliable and consistent for me, so grabbing one of his top seasons was a plus. I could’ve gone with ’96 Hoffman, who is better, but ’99 Hoffman did the trick. I opted for ’96 Caminiti, ’97 Gwynn and ’95 Newfield for the bench. Things got shuffled greatly later on though, so I ended up passing on Caminiti and adding ’96 Craig Shipley as another cheap bench bat. I like Gwynn’s high-average lefty bat to combat some of the deadballers we’re likely to see.

2008-2012 Blue Jays

I opted to knock off my Group 3 team here. Halladay is another pitcher who does consistently well for me. I also love the low walk pitchers. His ’08 season fits in nicely with Joss and Brown. I also grabbed two relievers in ’10 Downs and ’12 Janssen. I went big with ’11 Bautista for the OF. He eventually transitioned to 3B when I moved on from Caminiti. His defensive ratings and performance history say he’ll do well there. His offense should be great in the middle of the order as well. Scrub ’09 Dellucci rounds out this group.

2015-2019 Mets

Knowing my last pick would be near the end of the draft, I decided to save my final Group 1 pick to maximize my options. This Mets group is one I looked at early. ‘18 DeGrom is a great final piece of the rotation, and he brings ‘19 Lugo, ’16 Reed and ’15 Clippard to the pen. ‘17 Plawecki provides some back up C ABs for the bench.

2001-2005 Yankees

I agonized over this for a while. I had holes at OF, SS and 1B/2B (depending where I put Lajoie). There were some good options left that I just couldn’t make work. I really wanted one of the remaining Pirates teams with Wagner and Beaumont/Clarke for the OF, but I wasn’t left with much cap space (or options) for a 1B. Next, I tried the Tigers with Rogell, Gehringer and McCosky, but again, I just could not fit the puzzle pieces together. It was brutal to come so close to a couple stud groupings like that and not be able to use them.

My mind then went to the Jeter-led Yankees. Due to my Jays and Mets picks, I eliminated myself from the Cano years. I liked ’05 Jeter for offense and defense, so decided to work backwards from there. ’04 Rivera brought a reasonably priced 79 IP to round out my staff; ’03 Karim Garcia provides a nice bench bat; ’02 Giambi is another stud slugger to pair with Bautista; and ’01 Bernie fills my need for a good defensive CF with a nice bat who will slot in at the back end of the order. I wish I’d had a bit more time to find a way to make the Tigers or Pirates work, but I’m pleased with this selection.

Edit: After a boneheaded move on my part freed up an extra $2M, I added ’03 Posada for a big upgrade at C and went from ’04 Rivera to splurging on ’04 Gordon.

Final lineup:
’05 Jeter – SS (.309/.389/.450)
’10 Lajoie – 2B (.384/.445/.524)
’02 Giambi – 1B (.314/.435/.598)
’11 Jackson – LF (408/.468/.590)
’11 Bautista – 3B (.302/.447/.608)
’97 Gwynn – RF (.372/.409/.547)
’01 Williams – CF (.307/.395/.522)
’03 Posada – C (.281/.405/.518)

Rotation:
’18 DeGrom (217 IP, 0.91 WHIP)
’09 Joss (257 IP, 0.94 WHIP)
’98 Brown (257 IP, 1.07 WHIP)
’08 Halladay (246 IP, 1.05 WHIP)

Bullpen
’08 Ryan (38 IP, 0.81 WHIP)
’19 Lugo (80 IP, 0.90 WHIP)
’16 Reed (78 IP, 0.94 WHIP)
’10 Downs (61 IP, 0.99 WHIP)
’99 Hoffman (68 IP, 0.94 WHIP)
’12 Janssen (64 IP, 0.86 WHIP)
’04 Gordon (90 IP, 0.88 WHIP)

I didn’t really end up with any wasted salary. I have 2 $200K scrubs, and a $400K mopup man in ’15 Dillon Gee. I’m cautiously optimistic about this team.

Final totals (minus scrubs):

OFFENSE: 5656 PA, .334/.420/.535, 192 HR, 666 BB ($65.6M)
PITCHING: 1,456 IP, 2.22 ERA, 0.97 WHIP, .216 OAV, 1.62 BB/9, 8.04 K/9, 0.44 HR/9 ($53.4M)

Ballpark: League Park I (going neutral)