Really doesn’t have much impact on anyone, except the heavy-handed intimidation email. But this is a really dumb interpretation of “fair play.”

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 1:08:00 PM (view original):
This isn’t a loophole at all. This is the same as a coach recruiting for a D2 one season, liking the players he is on, and taking the dude when he moves to another D2 lol. If this is a loophole, then so is recruiting players in RS1 at L3.

I admit this is the only part that is in the gray area for me.

But this was identified LONG ago during Beta that this would be possible and no one really seemed to care. Definitely not Seble.

But Sports added the layer of purposefully sabotoging his old team on the way out the door, which messes up the jobs process and thus affects other players both in jobs and recruiting.

I'm disappointed to see so many coaches defending this. Is stocking a team you know you're leaving with garbage recruits a widespread practice?

I'm not following how it messes up jobs. It's a D3 job. There are plenty of them out there available.

A successful program should be a desirable step up, not a surprise screw job for a relatively new customer who thinks they're moving up in the world.

If you care about bringing new coaches into the game and keeping them interested, you can't be ok with this.

That's a good point, I'm sure AB's complaint was for the new guys.

The 'new guys' who aren't able to look at a team and determine whether it's even good or not is definitely going to beat Ab's resume... right?

The REAL new guys are picking up teams like this all the time. The sim teams they take over are already crap. What are we even talking about here.

In fact, this actually helps the new guys because then you don't have HoFers parking at D3 and taking over already well established D3 teams who will just dominate them, take the credits, and then move on.

I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is. And sarcasm.

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/24/2020 1:38:00 PM (view original):
i wish i could see the original players, as i'm not 100% sure i follow based on sports's expectation. i don't think the issue is looking at a player at the first school, and signing at the second - the issue was about not trying to win - which is required as part of fair play (whether it is stated or not). it sounds to me like seble and ab are saying, the players signed were intentionally bad, which is similar to throwing a game and is not allowed. not trying is not penalized; trying to suck is. but what i don't get is how sports's explanation about some other d2 school ties into that.

on a different front - ab came with a legitimate question - i don't get the hostility. i understand many of you don't respect him or his style of playing, but there's no reason to disqualify *anyone* from bringing legitimate lines of inquiry to the forums. i'm not super thrilled he name checked me bc i really don't want to be the defender of ab or his style - but also - the first page of this thread is ridiculous.

i will say, sending a ticket before talking to the coach in question was definitely weak sauce.

I think it is the whole self-righteous charade by ab90 that has most of us outspoken in this thread. He claims to see a clear violation of the fair play guidelines in what Sportsbulls did at Milsaps when he admits to violating them repeatedly by taking teams within a 1,000 mile radius of each other in the same world. At worst, the strategy employed by Sportsbulls during his last season at a stop is a gray area that would be solved through a single recruiting session. At best, it is a young man playing chess when some at the table don't even know how to play checkers.

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/24/2020 1:38:00 PM (view original):
i wish i could see the original players, as i'm not 100% sure i follow based on sports's expectation. i don't think the issue is looking at a player at the first school, and signing at the second - the issue was about not trying to win - which is required as part of fair play (whether it is stated or not). it sounds to me like seble and ab are saying, the players signed were intentionally bad, which is similar to throwing a game and is not allowed. not trying is not penalized; trying to suck is. but what i don't get is how sports's explanation about some other d2 school ties into that.

on a different front - ab came with a legitimate question - i don't get the hostility. i understand many of you don't respect him or his style of playing, but there's no reason to disqualify *anyone* from bringing legitimate lines of inquiry to the forums. i'm not super thrilled he name checked me bc i really don't want to be the defender of ab or his style - but also - the first page of this thread is ridiculous.

i will say, sending a ticket before talking to the coach in question was definitely weak sauce.

The players signed were not intentionally bad. D3 players are just the only players that sign RS1, so I only D3 players work for the strategy.

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 1:08:00 PM (view original):
This isn’t a loophole at all. This is the same as a coach recruiting for a D2 one season, liking the players he is on, and taking the dude when he moves to another D2 lol. If this is a loophole, then so is recruiting players in RS1 at L3.

I admit this is the only part that is in the gray area for me.

But this was identified LONG ago during Beta that this would be possible and no one really seemed to care. Definitely not Seble.

But Sports added the layer of purposefully sabotoging his old team on the way out the door, which messes up the jobs process and thus affects other players both in jobs and recruiting.

I'm disappointed to see so many coaches defending this. Is stocking a team you know you're leaving with garbage recruits a widespread practice?

I'm not following how it messes up jobs. It's a D3 job. There are plenty of them out there available.

A successful program should be a desirable step up, not a surprise screw job for a relatively new customer who thinks they're moving up in the world.

If you care about bringing new coaches into the game and keeping them interested, you can't be ok with this.

That's a good point, I'm sure AB's complaint was for the new guys.

The 'new guys' who aren't able to look at a team and determine whether it's even good or not is definitely going to beat Ab's resume... right?

The REAL new guys are picking up teams like this all the time. The sim teams they take over are already crap. What are we even talking about here.

In fact, this actually helps the new guys because then you don't have HoFers parking at D3 and taking over already well established D3 teams who will just dominate them, take the credits, and then move on.

I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is. And sarcasm.

That's my favorite gif!! Darn you.

Honestly, thanks to both Bulls and AB. Really know how to brighten up a Monday. I've enjoyed all of this.

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 1:08:00 PM (view original):
This isn’t a loophole at all. This is the same as a coach recruiting for a D2 one season, liking the players he is on, and taking the dude when he moves to another D2 lol. If this is a loophole, then so is recruiting players in RS1 at L3.

I admit this is the only part that is in the gray area for me.

But this was identified LONG ago during Beta that this would be possible and no one really seemed to care. Definitely not Seble.

But Sports added the layer of purposefully sabotoging his old team on the way out the door, which messes up the jobs process and thus affects other players both in jobs and recruiting.

I'm disappointed to see so many coaches defending this. Is stocking a team you know you're leaving with garbage recruits a widespread practice?

I'm not following how it messes up jobs. It's a D3 job. There are plenty of them out there available.

A successful program should be a desirable step up, not a surprise screw job for a relatively new customer who thinks they're moving up in the world.

If you care about bringing new coaches into the game and keeping them interested, you can't be ok with this.

That's a good point, I'm sure AB's complaint was for the new guys.

The 'new guys' who aren't able to look at a team and determine whether it's even good or not is definitely going to beat Ab's resume... right?

The REAL new guys are picking up teams like this all the time. The sim teams they take over are already crap. What are we even talking about here.

In fact, this actually helps the new guys because then you don't have HoFers parking at D3 and taking over already well established D3 teams who will just dominate them, take the credits, and then move on.

I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is. And sarcasm.

That's my favorite gif!! Darn you.

Honestly, thanks to both Bulls and AB. Really know how to brighten up a Monday. I've enjoyed all of this.

Does anyone hear the sound of a sultry affair beginning to burn?

I wouldn’t want to be on the same relay team as Seble, that’s for sure.

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 1:08:00 PM (view original):
This isn’t a loophole at all. This is the same as a coach recruiting for a D2 one season, liking the players he is on, and taking the dude when he moves to another D2 lol. If this is a loophole, then so is recruiting players in RS1 at L3.

I admit this is the only part that is in the gray area for me.

But this was identified LONG ago during Beta that this would be possible and no one really seemed to care. Definitely not Seble.

But Sports added the layer of purposefully sabotoging his old team on the way out the door, which messes up the jobs process and thus affects other players both in jobs and recruiting.

I'm disappointed to see so many coaches defending this. Is stocking a team you know you're leaving with garbage recruits a widespread practice?

I'm not following how it messes up jobs. It's a D3 job. There are plenty of them out there available.

A successful program should be a desirable step up, not a surprise screw job for a relatively new customer who thinks they're moving up in the world.

If you care about bringing new coaches into the game and keeping them interested, you can't be ok with this.

That's a good point, I'm sure AB's complaint was for the new guys.

The 'new guys' who aren't able to look at a team and determine whether it's even good or not is definitely going to beat Ab's resume... right?

The REAL new guys are picking up teams like this all the time. The sim teams they take over are already crap. What are we even talking about here.

In fact, this actually helps the new guys because then you don't have HoFers parking at D3 and taking over already well established D3 teams who will just dominate them, take the credits, and then move on.

I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is. And sarcasm.

That's my favorite gif!! Darn you.

Honestly, thanks to both Bulls and AB. Really know how to brighten up a Monday. I've enjoyed all of this.

Same. Great way to start off the week with a good laugh.

Posted by shoe3 on 8/24/2020 1:39:00 PM (view original):
Really doesn’t have much impact on anyone, except the heavy-handed intimidation email. But this is a really dumb interpretation of “fair play.”

with the caveat that i still don't know for sure what happened (because sports's account sounds like something different; i'm guessing he just didn't understand the original complaint but also he's a good guy and a trusted one so i'd like to hear from him before assuming) -

why do you think its a dumb interpretation of fair play? i am not a fan of making a fuss out of this stuff but i do think its appropriate for 'no intentional sabotage' to be part of fair play. there used to be issues where coaches would throw games to each other to help get more teams in the NT for more NT bonus money, or whatever else. maybe you throw this game for me this year when i need it and down the line i throw a game to you if you need it. you could sort of broaden collusion to cover that case, but generally speaking, intentionally throwing *anything* seems problematic to me. i'm curious if you see it differently.

i do think it catches cases where a coach is ****** and kinda goes off by blowing his team up, which if rare i would think would be better tolerated than prohibited - and also, this has caught up folks who were doing an experiment - like running the wrong off/def for a while - and folks have gotten warned for that. so its not perfect... i kinda look at 'no sucking on purpose' as a bit of a catch-all that should be applied judiciously, especially because of how important intent (which is always nebulous) is in making the determination about rule breaking or not. seble does know this though, its not like sports is one thrown game away from losing his account or anything along those lines (if you were to take the sitemail literally).

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 1:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/24/2020 1:38:00 PM (view original):
i wish i could see the original players, as i'm not 100% sure i follow based on sports's expectation. i don't think the issue is looking at a player at the first school, and signing at the second - the issue was about not trying to win - which is required as part of fair play (whether it is stated or not). it sounds to me like seble and ab are saying, the players signed were intentionally bad, which is similar to throwing a game and is not allowed. not trying is not penalized; trying to suck is. but what i don't get is how sports's explanation about some other d2 school ties into that.

on a different front - ab came with a legitimate question - i don't get the hostility. i understand many of you don't respect him or his style of playing, but there's no reason to disqualify *anyone* from bringing legitimate lines of inquiry to the forums. i'm not super thrilled he name checked me bc i really don't want to be the defender of ab or his style - but also - the first page of this thread is ridiculous.

i will say, sending a ticket before talking to the coach in question was definitely weak sauce.

The players signed were not intentionally bad. D3 players are just the only players that sign RS1, so I only D3 players work for the strategy.

hmm, maybe i didn't follow sports. did you actually sign those players in RS1 while you were still coach, or did the sim AI sign some dudes you had open ships on in RS2 after you left? if you signed them in RS1, are you saying half way through recruiting you basically stopped caring and just let it happen?

this is kinda why i wanted to see the original guys, i mean, if it was d3 guys you legitimately considered signing as backups if you needed them, they can't have been that bad... i would think anyone you'd even consider as a backup would be plenty good enough to be considered outside of intentional sabotage range. strange.

If recruiting a player generated by the system is grounds for expulsion from the site, then maybe those recruits shouldn't be generated in the first place. My 2 cents.

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/24/2020 1:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 8/24/2020 1:39:00 PM (view original):
Really doesn’t have much impact on anyone, except the heavy-handed intimidation email. But this is a really dumb interpretation of “fair play.”

with the caveat that i still don't know for sure what happened (because sports's account sounds like something different; i'm guessing he just didn't understand the original complaint but also he's a good guy and a trusted one so i'd like to hear from him before assuming) -

why do you think its a dumb interpretation of fair play? i am not a fan of making a fuss out of this stuff but i do think its appropriate for 'no intentional sabotage' to be part of fair play. there used to be issues where coaches would throw games to each other to help get more teams in the NT for more NT bonus money, or whatever else. maybe you throw this game for me this year when i need it and down the line i throw a game to you if you need it. you could sort of broaden collusion to cover that case, but generally speaking, intentionally throwing *anything* seems problematic to me. i'm curious if you see it differently.

i do think it catches cases where a coach is ****** and kinda goes off by blowing his team up, which if rare i would think would be better tolerated than prohibited - and also, this has caught up folks who were doing an experiment - like running the wrong off/def for a while - and folks have gotten warned for that. so its not perfect... i kinda look at 'no sucking on purpose' as a bit of a catch-all that should be applied judiciously, especially because of how important intent (which is always nebulous) is in making the determination about rule breaking or not. seble does know this though, its not like sports is one thrown game away from losing his account or anything along those lines (if you were to take the sitemail literally).

Why did reigny get to play for as long as he did?

Posted by Basketts on 8/24/2020 2:05:00 PM (view original):
If recruiting a player generated by the system is grounds for expulsion from the site, then maybe those recruits shouldn't be generated in the first place. My 2 cents.

Nailed it!

Posted by Basketts on 8/24/2020 2:05:00 PM (view original):
If recruiting a player generated by the system is grounds for expulsion from the site, then maybe those recruits shouldn't be generated in the first place. My 2 cents.

System also lets you play offenses and defenses you don't practice.

The difference between "I can" and "I should."

I've done that when changing offenses and defenses. I didn't realize I was going against fair play guidelines.