Posted by Basketts on 8/24/2020 2:11:00 PM (view original):
I've done that when changing offenses and defenses. I didn't realize I was going against fair play guidelines.

Come on man, you know what I mean.

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 12:46:00 PM (view original):
Omg, omg, omg. Ab, you’ve just made my day. Wow. This is incredible! I can’t believe you’ve outdone yourself. It’s pretty impressive.

Look at this message I just got from admin:

Jake,

We've been alerted to you intentionally sabotaging your team in Tarkanian by signing unqualified recruits. Please be aware that this type of behavior is against the rules and is taken very seriously. Any future problems, particularly with this type of behavior, will result in banishment from the site.

Thank you.

Not even kidding, I didn’t plan on sabotaging this with AB in mind at all (although this ended up working out best case scenario). I planned on moving to D2 or another D3 when recruiting happened, and I always scout D2 in my area (of my old team), bump some sims down on studs or battle some D2s to keep them below signing range, then fill my scholarships up so they don’t sign with me. Then scout them to L1 and sign them on my new team. It’s a strategy I’ve used throughout my career with changing teams. I just decided recently I wasn’t going to hop to another team. But regardless, this is amazing. Thank you for making my day.

On an aside, AB, my challenge of who can win a ship first in the same conference is still on.

this is overall pretty funny... and if ab takes the team you should retaliate by ticketing that your team was unfairly manipulated because the players were recruited intentionally and demand their reinstatement :)

KC - To be clear, using recruiting resources from RS1 to benefit a team you know you'll be moving to in RS2 is definitely worth talking about. I feel like that can be abused. But I don't like customer service being in the business of evaluating recruited players. Sure, you can say that a recruit isn't up to the standards of an elite coach like sportsbulls. But how do you subjectively evaluate coaches who aren't as established? Where do you draw the line?

Posted by Basketts on 8/24/2020 2:16:00 PM (view original):
KC - To be clear, using recruiting resources from RS1 to benefit a team you know you'll be moving to in RS2 is definitely worth talking about. I feel like that can be abused. But I don't like customer service being in the business of evaluating recruited players. Sure, you can say that a recruit isn't up to the standards of an elite coach like sportsbulls. But how do you subjectively evaluate coaches who aren't as established? Where do you draw the line?

Those are all completely reasonable points.

There's no imaginary line drawing problem here though. Sportsbulls openly explained what he was doing and why he was doing it.

Have a great day fellas.

Posted by Basketts on 8/24/2020 2:16:00 PM (view original):
KC - To be clear, using recruiting resources from RS1 to benefit a team you know you'll be moving to in RS2 is definitely worth talking about. I feel like that can be abused. But I don't like customer service being in the business of evaluating recruited players. Sure, you can say that a recruit isn't up to the standards of an elite coach like sportsbulls. But how do you subjectively evaluate coaches who aren't as established? Where do you draw the line?

This whole thing is bad business. Seble should have gathered facts before acting unilaterally.

If you don't want coaches to potentially benefit their next program, don't have recruiting overlap two seasons.

This is incredible...

Ive been apart of this site since 2003, and never have I ever been apart of such a corrupt nonsensical decision making process... AB90 has CLEARLY violated rules on separate occasions, without so much as a twinkle in the eye of the admins... If Bulls stayed one more season, who's to say he didnt just have a bad recruiting season? Who's to say he's not testing another theory, THAT HE PAID FOR.... AB90 literally refuses to recruit (which results in the SAME type of sabotage), but he's clear as day and no problems whatsoever, while Bulls receives a formal warning?

Ive spent umpteen amounts of money on this site since it's creation.... Simleagues, Dynasty sports...etc... If this type of action gets reprimanded, while AB90 goes unchecked, I will not only cease paying for this site, I will seek legal council about the unfair treatment based on personal bias way to get some of my investment back.

I'm not going to sit back and invest in something, and have these admins make bias decisions like this... I have about half a dozen examples saved, where AB has broken actual rules and fictitious ones (same scenario as Bulls), I'll submit a ticket and seek action.

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 1:08:00 PM (view original):
This isn’t a loophole at all. This is the same as a coach recruiting for a D2 one season, liking the players he is on, and taking the dude when he moves to another D2 lol. If this is a loophole, then so is recruiting players in RS1 at L3.

I admit this is the only part that is in the gray area for me.

But this was identified LONG ago during Beta that this would be possible and no one really seemed to care. Definitely not Seble.

But Sports added the layer of purposefully sabotoging his old team on the way out the door, which messes up the jobs process and thus affects other players both in jobs and recruiting.

I'm disappointed to see so many coaches defending this. Is stocking a team you know you're leaving with garbage recruits a widespread practice?

Is not recruiting, or setting a schedule or scheduling practice minutes the entire season not equally appalling to you? The fact he breaks rules and has 2 teams in the same world less than 1000 miles apart? The fact he uses one account as a scouting burner that jumps from school to school for free scouting budget for his main account? I have multiple examples of this happening, and it's been known for YEARS, yet it has gone unchecked...

We don't get to pick on Bulls, because AB is mad he cant soak another contender from someone else... That's not fair, and that's not the way this game has or should be handled. This is clear bias. If he has a bad season of recruiting L3 recruits, and wants to leave, you don't get to treat him differently because he's a winning coach with a winning team.

I hate how Bulls does things at times, but he pays for this game the same as the rest of us (or not because he wins so damn much)... The admins have allowed this type of play since I've started playing (Long before 3.0 was a thing), so we're going to jump on it now because AB is salty? That's the most unprofessionally biased decision in this page's history.

Basketts said how I feel twice both about recruit generation and abusing recruiting when you plan to head to another team. In my playbook, there is no way thats a cool way to recruit when heading to another team but also there are way too many recruits in this ocean that are entirely useless. I dunno I still live this game but it needs a real overhaul, especially recruiting.

*love not live jeesus thats a scary thought.

lilspike -

1) there's no real consequence behind seble's warning and that is probably clear to all involved parties

2) ab was not allowed to keep teams within 1000 miles and is not allowed to have them

i'm not saying the system is working perfectly here but i wouldn't get too bent out of shape over it either. the end result is not so bad, even if the tone and semantics along the way are misplaced. CS hates dealing with these fair play issues and basically issues a meaningless warning whenever someone complains because when they refused to warn folks for stuff, people would get really bent out of shape over it, right or wrong. there are almost never severe enough issues for CS to ban someone, so they basically only really engage with these issues at more than a superficial level, when they really have to.

i am a proponent of NOT forcing these issues on CS because this is a small operation that can't be very profitable, and i just feel like its in all of our interest to 1) follow the spirit of fair play and 2) not get too picky about the enforcement of fair play, so that it is not a drain on CS. i think major issues need to be addressed but, for example, i don't like ab sending a ticket about sport's team here. it just doesn't rise to the level of importance. but neither does ticketing about the way this issue was handed, IMO. especially when the use of one team to benefit another is a thorny issue to start with and could plausibly merit a warning even if the competitive thing was a red herring. if people could calmly discuss this with seble and not freak out about whatever decision he made, he might engage with us - but that tends not to be the case.

on the other topic you raised -
i would agree with the premise that ab90 is using a loophole for his system and that it is bad for the game in general for coaches to run teams that way (not recruiting, scheduling, etc). i just don't particularly blame him to the extent the rest of you guys do - but i am sort of a live and let live kind of guy. if you wanted to push the case that the loyalty mechanism is being circumvented by totally dropping a world and returning, and that there should be a check on this, i think you'd have a reasonable case. the whole loyalty mechanism sucks to be honest, it basically is a binary can you apply or not, when in reality it should be a gradient that also (or primarily) impacts the competitive part of the jobs process (which coach gets the job).

in short, for many reasons (not just this scenario), i'd like to see loyalty 1) impact who gets a job multiple people want, first and foremost, with a much less strict enforcement on what job one is qualified for; and 2) a loyalty hit when a coach returns to a world quickly, sort of in line with the loyalty hit from a job change. however, its hard to do #2 (which closes the ab loophole) without #1 because loyalty is so strict.

1) There is a real consequence... He could be banned down the road for stepping out of line accidentally again... Meanwhile multiple reports of AB have gone unchecked and he's continuously allowed to do the same type of sabotage.

2) He moves so much, how do you guys keep track? I've seen it since my return to HD, not 2 months ago.

I am bent out of shape, because it's clear bias... Then they took the recruits away, which completely screws with not only RS1 in that world, but can completely adversely affect RS2 in that world, with zero explanation. Where has there been another example of this? Can we go back in time to the start of last season where I took over a crap AB90 team, where he completely screwed the entire roster? Let's remove those recruits, and let me make my RS2 again. I would've 100% stayed.

People's money is at stake here... It's a free season and a $25 gift card for some, but people invest in this stuff and the admins are playing with people's money at this point... I don't care how small of an operation it is, I expect consistency... Not just a flash mob of nonsense by AB and his cronies and the admins just jumping the gun.

Just to get another voice in here, because we all know that's what this argument needs, I think saying that bulls' use of resources is unfair doesn't make sense to me. We 100% brought this loophole up in beta to seble and he was fine with it. I'm fine with it.

Bulls builds up his programs. Most of them he stays at for eternity. He's a great Hoops DYNASTY coach, as good as they get. The idea that signing poor recruits is punishable... doesn't make sense to me. He can use his resources however he wants to.

To put this in perspective...

I don't like what Bulls does, at all.. It's a cheap way to win, but it's effective because it's apparently done by so many all over the place. You don't get to pick and choose when to enforce rules, because some whine *** makes a stink that he cant absorb another title shot from someone else.

That's a really crappy stance to take as a business... There are people who sign horrible recruits all the time, there are people who choose to go against the grain and try to win all the time. We get to tell Bulls how he has to play with his money forever because he has success?

Let me ask this question... when I get to teams, cut as many players as I can and end up with bad records my first couple seasons (example), am I breaking rules?

Also, if someone signs a player that they had pursued in their past team, is that a rule violation?

Posted by kcsundevil on 8/24/2020 2:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Basketts on 8/24/2020 2:05:00 PM (view original):
If recruiting a player generated by the system is grounds for expulsion from the site, then maybe those recruits shouldn't be generated in the first place. My 2 cents.

System also lets you play offenses and defenses you don't practice.

The difference between "I can" and "I should."

yeh I play the wrong O/D to get good preferences for recruits all the time in rebuilds.... sounds like creative out of the box thinking, not exploitation in any way.