Other than jumping to better jobs, what is ab90 doing that is being deemed unfair?

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:59:00 PM (view original):
I would disagree with the term "fairly". That's why we're having this discussion.

Yes, and that's your interpretation. But I would argue its either both fair or neither fair. I think a lot of community members would too. My opinion probably doesn't matter, but I am of the belief that if something is factored into the game design and its not a "glitch," it should be fair game. If not, this could lead to bias, unfairness, and forums like these which waste everyones time lmao.

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 7:00:00 PM (view original):
Other than jumping to better jobs, what is ab90 doing that is being deemed unfair?

"We've been alerted to you intentionally sabotaging your team in Tarkanian by signing unqualified recruits. Please be aware that this type of behavior is against the rules and is taken very seriously." AB sabotages his teams by not recruiting (which leads to very poor classes even though he is capable of a lot better, like the argument used for me), setting practice plans, or scheduling.

"Behavior that unfairly impedes another coach is prohibited." ABs actions of not recruiting or benefiting the team at all impede the next coach in the same manner mine did.

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 7:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:59:00 PM (view original):
I would disagree with the term "fairly". That's why we're having this discussion.

Yes, and that's your interpretation. But I would argue its either both fair or neither fair. I think a lot of community members would too. My opinion probably doesn't matter, but I am of the belief that if something is factored into the game design and its not a "glitch," it should be fair game. If not, this could lead to bias, unfairness, and forums like these which waste everyones time lmao.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's ethical, even in an online game. It's also false to say that any of these things are "factored into the game design". These are loopholes, which by definition were not part of the game design.

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 7:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 7:00:00 PM (view original):
Other than jumping to better jobs, what is ab90 doing that is being deemed unfair?

"We've been alerted to you intentionally sabotaging your team in Tarkanian by signing unqualified recruits. Please be aware that this type of behavior is against the rules and is taken very seriously." AB sabotages his teams by not recruiting (which leads to very poor classes even though he is capable of a lot better, like the argument used for me), setting practice plans, or scheduling.

"Behavior that unfairly impedes another coach is prohibited." ABs actions of not recruiting or benefiting the team at all impede the next coach in the same manner mine did.

+1

He's doing this on purpose. He takes a great team and drives them into the dirt more often than not, and bails. The team is near ruined and needs a full rebuild almost every time. At least Bulls team is resurrected the very next season. AB didn't even do the practice minutes on the Washington Team I took over.

He can get any job because his resume is better and everyone either watches him do this sh*t or tries to game the system to avoid it happening.

Were asking for cconsistency because there's absolutely no way to combat the BS, and all it does is create a bunch of good teams being taken down, so he has an easier road. Ever notice the pattern of teams he takes? Lol

If you knowingly refuse to recruit, and setup anything that's no different than screwing with the team purposefully. What Bulls did in NO WAY benefits himself or Friend of his, so I'm not sure I understand how its unfair if we allow the other.

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 7:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 7:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:59:00 PM (view original):
I would disagree with the term "fairly". That's why we're having this discussion.

Yes, and that's your interpretation. But I would argue its either both fair or neither fair. I think a lot of community members would too. My opinion probably doesn't matter, but I am of the belief that if something is factored into the game design and its not a "glitch," it should be fair game. If not, this could lead to bias, unfairness, and forums like these which waste everyones time lmao.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's ethical, even in an online game. It's also false to say that any of these things are "factored into the game design". These are loopholes, which by definition were not part of the game design.

You can also argue certain recruiting tactics like staying at VL with no scholarship and building AP, then dropping all your visits one cycle is unethical and a loophole. There's just no fine line, at least one that I've seen.

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):
In hindsight, so many of these issues would be gone if I had kept recruiting to one session. I wish I had stuck to my guns on that one.

Its been a while but I dnt remember anyone in BETA asking for the 2 recruiting sessions. From my recollection we all brought up issues it would/has caused.

Posted by mullycj on 8/24/2020 7:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):
In hindsight, so many of these issues would be gone if I had kept recruiting to one session. I wish I had stuck to my guns on that one.

Its been a while but I dnt remember anyone in BETA asking for the 2 recruiting sessions. From my recollection we all brought up issues it would/has caused.

Lol, are you being serious or trolling me again?

I'd be more than happy with some actual examples, that are *ruled* unethical and what is fair...

1) If Bulls recruits subpar players that are D1 or D2, do they just stick around? Even though he knows they cant compete? Are we going to start crunching down colors of stats...etc, that people cant even see before taking over a team?

2) Can there be a limit to how much a team can jump around? Loyalty, Reputation, I don't care, but it's ridiculous how it is currently.

3) I think that rolling back the teams recruits puts the entire world in a horrible place. I think instead of adversely affecting RS1, you put the entire RS2 process (much harder for D3) in jeopardy for other D3s trying to recruit now.... Wouldn't forcing Bulls to coach that sh*t squad of recruits kind of kill two birds with one stone?

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 6:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):
In hindsight, so many of these issues would be gone if I had kept recruiting to one session. I wish I had stuck to my guns on that one.

Omg yes!! 2 sessions has caused so many problems!

I don't recall too many people clammoring for 2 sessions or why it was even done. I did think it was a good idea conceptually because it gave you something to do during the season. I was dead wrong.

In fact many people were loudly clamoring for it. I never even considered it until the beta period.

No way.

EDIT: Real link to first mention of two recruiting sessions on 9/14/15. Beta started Spring 2016

But that came from when you first shared your idea of helping out new people by not asking them to recruit right away - like we did in 2.0.

Your idea was that no one could recruit the first season at a school and everyone hated that we couldn't immediately recruit their own players when changing jobs. So you came up with the proposal to split into two sessions. Read through the thread. A couple liked the idea of in season recruiting and split sessions but most did not. Most just said "well it's better than the first idea". - some like our friend Mully said how bad of an idea it was.

So the clammoring wasn't for two recruiting sessions but just to be able to recruit the 1st season - which we could do already. The two recruiting sessions thing exists ONLY because you didn't want noobs to have to recruit right away.

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 7:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 8/24/2020 7:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):
In hindsight, so many of these issues would be gone if I had kept recruiting to one session. I wish I had stuck to my guns on that one.

Its been a while but I dnt remember anyone in BETA asking for the 2 recruiting sessions. From my recollection we all brought up issues it would/has caused.

Lol, are you being serious or trolling me again?

Not trolling. Mully is right.

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):
In hindsight, so many of these issues would be gone if I had kept recruiting to one session. I wish I had stuck to my guns on that one.

The awesome thing about the second session (post job change recruiting) is a headstart at the new job. The awesome thing about the first session is in season recruiting feels clean and saves time.

But having coaches recruiting a 2 different schools with 1 player gen makes the type of stuff Bulls is doing seem more innovative (to me personally) then rule-breaking.

Posted by Benis on 8/24/2020 6:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):
In hindsight, so many of these issues would be gone if I had kept recruiting to one session. I wish I had stuck to my guns on that one.

Omg yes!! 2 sessions has caused so many problems!

I don't recall too many people clammoring for 2 sessions or why it was even done. I did think it was a good idea conceptually because it gave you something to do during the season. I was dead wrong.

I still kinda like the recruiting during the season. There are just certain mechainal issues (one of which that newbies don't get any of their guys in their first season.... that's what drew me into this game!)

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 7:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 8/24/2020 7:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):
In hindsight, so many of these issues would be gone if I had kept recruiting to one session. I wish I had stuck to my guns on that one.

Its been a while but I dnt remember anyone in BETA asking for the 2 recruiting sessions. From my recollection we all brought up issues it would/has caused.

Lol, are you being serious or trolling me again?

Seble is right here, although I don't think mully is trolling. He had the 1 in-season recruiting session. We convinced him to add a second one after job change so it didn't take so damn long to get a team of our recruits.

Posted by cubcub113 on 8/24/2020 7:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 7:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 8/24/2020 7:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:32:00 PM (view original):
In hindsight, so many of these issues would be gone if I had kept recruiting to one session. I wish I had stuck to my guns on that one.

Its been a while but I dnt remember anyone in BETA asking for the 2 recruiting sessions. From my recollection we all brought up issues it would/has caused.

Lol, are you being serious or trolling me again?

Seble is right here, although I don't think mully is trolling. He had the 1 in-season recruiting session. We convinced him to add a second one after job change so it didn't take so damn long to get a team of our recruits.

edit: saw Benis' link. He does have the phrase "maybe 1 or 2 days after championship game to finish it up" which I guess sounds like a little seed in seble's mind of a second saw. But, I remember a lot of people (including me) pushing for a full-ish second session during beta,

Kind of. But the second session was really mostly a compromise to handle EEs.

The best way to do it, in retrospect, would have been to figure out how to have EEs declare before the start of recruiting in a way that didn’t mess up the process, or muck up the resource distribution.