Posted by ab90 on 8/24/2020 10:01:00 PM (view original):
This thread is still going? Kind of funny, in a fatalistic sort of way. I skipped to the last page so no idea what happened, but I would be most tickled to hear what I’ve done to warrant punishment. I had some success, people got upset, and I’ve always enjoyed seeing a good hissy fit, with which so many of you have generously rewarded me.

Make my day and site mail me with my list of crimes, ye of mob justice over the job selection process.

My favorite part is that there are many people in here who have had success with programs I’ve built, just as I’ve won many of my 21(?) rings with teams that others built but couldn’t game plan with.

Apologies to Seble who has better things to do. Good night, Sweet Princes

One genuine question, again ab, why do you still play? You make 75 a year probably off of HD and play like 365 hours a day, so it’s not for the money because that’s a bad investment. And you’ve stated it’s not for enjoyment either, so why?

Posted by ab90 on 8/24/2020 10:01:00 PM (view original):
This thread is still going? Kind of funny, in a fatalistic sort of way. I skipped to the last page so no idea what happened, but I would be most tickled to hear what I’ve done to warrant punishment. I had some success, people got upset, and I’ve always enjoyed seeing a good hissy fit, with which so many of you have generously rewarded me.

Make my day and site mail me with my list of crimes, ye of mob justice over the job selection process.

My favorite part is that there are many people in here who have had success with programs I’ve built, just as I’ve won many of my 21(?) rings with teams that others built but couldn’t game plan with.

Apologies to Seble who has better things to do. Good night, Sweet Princes

Every single one of these posts is a cringe fest....good grief. It's basically a parody it's so bad.

Anyway, there's actually been good discussion around positive changes that could be made to the game that you can read once you're done patting yourself on the back.

Also, ab, do you want to accept my challenge and do a rebuild together and see who can win first?

‘I skipped to the last page so no idea what happened.’ LOL.

Lastly, seble, I’m still curious how me signing D3 guys goes over the gray area of dumping a roster and hurts the next coach, but ab or other proven coaches not recruiting, running practice plans, and scheduling does not. What’s that explanation?

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 10:19:00 PM (view original):
Lastly, seble, I’m still curious how me signing D3 guys goes over the gray area of dumping a roster and hurts the next coach, but ab or other proven coaches not recruiting, running practice plans, and scheduling does not. What’s that explanation?

I love this game and I'm very new to HD. But even in my short time here, the community seems to have a really unhealthy infatuation with "proven" coaches in my opinion.

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 8/24/2020 6:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):
I really don't want to keep this going because clearly some of you aren't going to understand my reasoning. I'll just throw out a few more things:

1. The only issue reported regarding ab90 was the somewhat recent violation of the distance rule. I advised him that all violations needed to be fixed by the end of the current season. That's standard procedure for any distance violation where there is no further evidence of cheating. The resolution would have been the same for any of you. If there are other issues with ab90, please report them with accompanying evidence.

2. This situation and a distance violation (or whatever else ab90 is apparently doing) are completely unrelated. Please don't try to justify this by implicating ab90 for some other issue.

3. Loyalty is absolutely a factor in jobs, but only for DI and DII. I have no idea what ab90's history is, but if he's staying in DIII then he's welcome to move around as much as he wants, like anyone is. I don't disagree that riding the coattails of another coach isn't a great look, but that's not a rule violation.

4. I don't understand what people are referencing when they say that this was "approved" in the beta. No idea what you're talking about there.

5. People saying that he's just recruiting DIII players at a DIII school are missing the point. These signings were not legitimate based on a total lack of scouting and the timeline. That's not to mention the quality being well below the school's standard. If there was some alternate strategy at work, then I'm missing it. Regardless, the end result wasn't legitimate.

6. If Sportsbulls had stayed at the team, then of course this is a non-issue and he can sign who he wants. The whole point is that he downgraded the job for the next coach for no reason.

7. When I say "the next coach", I'm not referring to ab90. I never got the impression that he wanted the job, nor would it matter. That had nothing to do with my response.

Just a couple things:

4. I think the point here is that, as with many things, there were issues some were raising, like some folks could see people doing strange things to game the system in various ways. That’s just the system that exists. There are lots of parts, and it kind of invites a lot of this kind of manipulation. I don’t recall if you specifically responded to it or not, but I do recall that this kind of point was raised. I didn’t have a problem with it then, and still don’t.

5. Again, show me the *actual* harm done, or benefit gained. How is this different, functionally, from swinging and missing on recruits that are far above a teams level? Coaches do that all the time, and then leave when they strike out. Are they threatened with bans?

7. I’m completely neutral on ab90’s tactics, but I assure you, the animosity here is 100% because folks rightly surmised this was brought to your attention because he was looking for a team to snag.

4. Sure, there are things that the system allows that aren't ideal, but comments were implying that I somehow condoned any of this behavior in the past.

5. This is different because what you're describing would an honest effort to recruit. This was not that.

7. I have no idea of ab90's agenda, but it really doesn't matter to me. If there's an issue reported, I'm going to address it.

I appreciate that you’re engaging the community on this today. No one expects this from one person all the time, but it’s good once in a while.

The problem here, as I see it, is that you’re focused on the “legitimacy” and not the harm or benefit of the action. If you’re going to call something a violation of fair play guidelines, or “unfair”, I would hope you could point to a victim; or show a substantial unfair benefit gained from the action, something worthy of creating this kind of precedent.

There’s certainly no victim; no one is required to take over the team, and if someone does, there is no legitimate expectation of a killer class every year.

Is there substantial *unfair* advantage? I mean, no. If the potential targets were the kind of players you build a team around, he would not be able to keep top level D2 humans teams off them. At best, he might give himself *slightly* better odds at landing a couple *usable* players in the second session, instead of swallowing an entire rebuild year, which is essentially just a bandaid for a system design flaw.

And the kicker, as someone else has pointed out, is that this is neither unrealistic, nor illegal or a “violation” of fair play in real life. No real life coach on their way out is obligated to not be thinking about their next position, and putting themselves in a softer landing spot. Coaches even take recruits and players with them sometimes, although obviously that gets tricky, and I’m not saying HD should go that far.

Posted by ab90 on 8/24/2020 10:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 10:19:00 PM (view original):
Lastly, seble, I’m still curious how me signing D3 guys goes over the gray area of dumping a roster and hurts the next coach, but ab or other proven coaches not recruiting, running practice plans, and scheduling does not. What’s that explanation?

Hahahaha find these teams I didn’t recruit for. Surely there are a handful because I often lose interest and don’t log in, but that’s why there’s a 2nd recruiting window. That said, the vast majority of the teams– I am confident it is above 85%– that I left behind had studs on the roster and had studs in position to be signed. Not my problem if the next guy can’t land the fish. I’m going back through old rosters of team after I left them. Good gracious were there ever some championships on platters. West Florida, Humboldt, Chad St, San Fran St, San Bernardino– long list of teams I voluntarily walked away from that were tailor made for titles.

The Post team in Smith is no different. 1 kid coming in is a murderer, the Canadian is a coldblooded hitman if you can finish landing him, and the juco signee is capable of being the leading scorer on a national championship team.

Lostmyth, gillispie, usfqb, and a handful more. That’s it above me. For those of you who complain about me, I can’t make you better at this game. Sorry.

I keep coming back because I want to recapture the first joy I held for this game. It was revolutionary, and it was exciting, and recruiting was like Christmas morning. Now, like Kanye on or off his meds, my levels of commitment are mercurial.

But, the hell with it- maybe I’ll start paying attention again. TBD.

If you don’t think I’m a better coach than you then accept my challenge?

Sportsbulls also mentioned he has done this going from a D3 team to another D3 team, and D2 to another D2 team. I feel like that advantage is a bit higher than jumping up a division. You're reserving players with a potentially a higher prestige and getting double the scouting money for the same division. That's an advantage any incoming coaches in RS2 wouldn't have and could potentially harm them from a competition stand point. Even this doesn't really bother me. But I can see why it would be considered a gray area.

Other than that though, I agree with Shoe. Just doesn't seem like its that big of an advantage. Certainly not enough to waste seble's time evaluating how good recruits are and how much effort was put in to recruit those players.

Posted by ab90 on 8/24/2020 10:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 8/24/2020 10:19:00 PM (view original):
Lastly, seble, I’m still curious how me signing D3 guys goes over the gray area of dumping a roster and hurts the next coach, but ab or other proven coaches not recruiting, running practice plans, and scheduling does not. What’s that explanation?

Hahahaha find these teams I didn’t recruit for. Surely there are a handful because I often lose interest and don’t log in, but that’s why there’s a 2nd recruiting window. That said, the vast majority of the teams– I am confident it is above 85%– that I left behind had studs on the roster and had studs in position to be signed. Not my problem if the next guy can’t land the fish. I’m going back through old rosters of team after I left them. Good gracious were there ever some championships on platters. West Florida, Humboldt, Chad St, San Fran St, San Bernardino– long list of teams I voluntarily walked away from that were tailor made for titles.

The Post team in Smith is no different. 1 kid coming in is a murderer, the Canadian is a coldblooded hitman if you can finish landing him, and the juco signee is capable of being the leading scorer on a national championship team.

Lostmyth, gillispie, usfqb, and a handful more. That’s it above me. For those of you who complain about me, I can’t make you better at this game. Sorry.

I keep coming back because I want to recapture the first joy I held for this game. It was revolutionary, and it was exciting, and recruiting was like Christmas morning. Now, like Kanye on or off his meds, my levels of commitment are mercurial.

But, the hell with it- maybe I’ll start paying attention again. TBD.

I've posted a few times in this thread but I hardly frequent the HD forums much.. I don't think I understand your 'mightier than thou' shtick? You deflect every accusation and then immediately run to 'titles' and 'HOF coach'. You do realize Sportsbull is averaging a title every 11 seasons to your career average title every 21 seasons? To be fair to Sports, he'd probably have that number trimmed down quite a bit if he wasn't trying to rebuild garbage teams into dynasties. "I keep coming back because I want to recapture the first joy I held for this game. It was revolutionary, and it was exciting, and recruiting was like Christmas morning. Now, like Kanye on or off his meds, my levels of commitment are mercurial." Comparing yourself with mental disorders? Fantastic work. Reminiscing about the old days when the game was exciting to you? Understandable - new is always exciting, it's always fresh. It'll never really feel like that again unless you do something new like, I don't know, staying at a school and building your own dynasty. You acting like you're some higher being because you game the system - whether it's trolling or serious - is just socially bizarre.

I guess that's part of the problem though, at least for me. I can't tell, or don't care enough to tell, if you're trolling or if you actually act like some poorly written TV character. It's not to be of any offense, I'm just curious if you're actually this 'out there'. People all over the forums accuse you of doing x, y, and z - in your case: teams within 1000 miles & taking over the best team, milking them of any success while not managing their future, then letting them run into the dirt - yet you say it's not true and try to prove how good of a coach by stating number of championships without any context. You know the saying "if everyone in the room is an a-hole, then you're the a-hole". Every time I've seen you post, it's one of those times. From what I've seen, you post to defend your own actions, people call you on it, then you pop up later saying you hadn't read anything or that you refuse to acknowledge their points because they aren't in the elite. To be honest, I'd rather you just be like "I like to win championships and I hate the other parts of the game and until it's fixed IDGAF". But instead, you double down and create problems for a community who legitimately wants to just enjoy the game.

In the pages you claim to have not read, Seble said the game is supposed to run on a "fun and fair" honor system. If nobody breaks the honor system, the game runs smooth and every one enjoys. I know there's no concrete definition of what 'fair' is but it's probably safe to say your actions aren't "fun and fair" when the overarching theme to every thread you're a part of results in 99% of people telling you "dude, please just stop being an a-hole and play fair". To even make a thread "Does this shatter a user agreement, or just ethics" tells me you're probably self-aware and you're likely doing this for the shigs. I'm never going to tell anyone how to live their life, but doing it for the shigs just comes across as really... sad I guess? I mean, this whole thread is the community telling Seble that you're surpassing what should be considered fair play when you do equal to or worse than that daily to weekly. Your response is to get angry without acting like you're the least bit upset but it's clear as day when stuff frustrates you by the way you respond. I don't know, maybe it's just not the life for me.

Also, I think you claimed in the <1000 miles thread that you only spent a couple minutes total between all of your 20+ teams and how it was an easy mistake considering you don't keep track with recruiting, schools, etc. Well, you seem really knowledgeable about that Post team's recruiting? Like dude, you can't play both sides of the coin. Do you spend time on all your teams - where you should've be aware of the <1000 mile rule - or do you not spend anytime on your teams - essentially running them into the ground? You build this up as the community vs. ab90. From what I can tell, literally nobody cares about you dude. It's not like they're hanging on the edge of their seats waiting for the day ab90 decides to care about HD again. They just want you to stop ruining a game meant to have fun whether it's intentional or not. If it means you find out you don't enjoy the game and leave, fine whatever, the community seems to overwhelmingly not care if you're here.

Also also, isn't leaking any information about recruiting like that considered against the actual rules? I feel like you're not allowed to say who your school has lined up like that.

To be honest, I already kinda know how you'll reply. Attack my resume and say you don't know who I am (fair play =/= coaching status), take the little dig on you not building a dynasty and tell me about a dynasty you built years ago, tell me gill and john agreed with you and they're in the elite coaches (which is hilarious you're so obsessive about being an all-time coach? you claim to not care about HD but you're insistent you're an elite coach despite many in the community disagreeing.. it's not like there's some golden jacket or real life cash prize for being an all-time coach, the only benefit I can think of would be HD peers' respect which you've widely failed to earn..just don't know why you NEED people to recognize you as an all-time elite coach), or act like you didn't have the care to read all of this.

Only way I knew how to respond to that upsetcity:

He’s one of those people where the more posts you get, the more you see how unlikable he is.

This thread was sheer genius. I see some of you saying how bad these threads are. We just invited seble over for HD forum dinner and he showed up. When is that a bad thing? Sometimes the gloves gotta come off to get the job done, and that's what happened here.

Glad seble intervened. There's a cancer in the room, and of all the coaches that dont like seeing it, only about 2% are speaking on it here, and it's getting attention/resolution. We can all justify what we deem right for our gaming opinions. But fact is, if so many have a problem with it, where there's smoke, there's fire. And investigation needs to happen.

I hope ab90 plays the same game the rest of us do going forward with the changes being implemented. If he has success in the same manner the rest of us do, more power to him. But playing his own game within a game isn't good for any of us. I hope things progress from here for us all, ab included