RS1 just started in Naismith and I'm in a ridiculous battle with a sim. Can anyone explain this?

My team - Carnegie Mellon - D3 - A+ Prestige
Sim - Edinboro - D2 - C Prestige

1st Cycle - 50 AP
2nd Cycle - 57 AP
3rd Cycle - 80 AP
4th Cycle - 80 AP & ship offer
5th Cycle - 80 AP - start & 25 minutes
6th Cycle - 80 AP - CV & 4 HV
7th Cycle - 80 AP & 5 HV
8th Cycle - 80 AP & 11 HV

Total - 587 AP (out of 640 possible) - CV & 20 HV - Start & 25 minutes

I'm 53 AP short of having everything maxed out.

I'm at Moderate and Edinboro is at Very High. There is another D3 human with A+ prestige at Moderate as well.

Preferences:
PT - no preference
Distance - good
Success - wants rebuild - bad
Play Style - bad
Offense - Neutral
Defense - no pref
Conf Strength - no pref
Coach Longevity - very bad

The only thing I can think of is that my preferences are so bad, that they are having an immense negative effect. Everything is maxed out and basically has been as maxed as possible from the beginning, so I don't understand how the sim is so strong.

I've been stymied by bad preferences before, but only ever in battles with D1 sims. This one feels odd but the 2 bads and 1 vb could definitely be what's holding you back.

Can't figure this one out. How does sim have so much effort of this early?

Just to be sure...this is a high school kid, right? Not a JUCO who might have a previous season's worth of effort in him?

Your preference profile is pretty negative. I think what you’re probably seeing here is how sims battle when they actually think they can win, which we don’t see very often. Normally what happens is we put in x amount of effort, and it’s basically enough to knock them to very low consideration, and move them off. In this case it wasn’t, and they keep coming. Now possibly if you had bombed all effort at once, that might have done it. But hard to say. Tough lesson to learn, I’m sure. This is why general rule is, for those recruits who take more than ~120 AP to unlock the scholarship, when a sim comes in hot, be warned. Might be time to cut losses. To paraphrase Falstaff, and legendary pro wrestling announcer, Jim Ross, discretion is the better part of valor.

Posted by sol_phenom3 on 12/3/2020 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Just to be sure...this is a high school kid, right? Not a JUCO who might have a previous season's worth of effort in him?

Correct. This is a high school kid.

Posted by shoe3 on 12/3/2020 12:21:00 PM (view original):
Your preference profile is pretty negative. I think what you’re probably seeing here is how sims battle when they actually think they can win, which we don’t see very often. Normally what happens is we put in x amount of effort, and it’s basically enough to knock them to very low consideration, and move them off. In this case it wasn’t, and they keep coming. Now possibly if you had bombed all effort at once, that might have done it. But hard to say. Tough lesson to learn, I’m sure. This is why general rule is, for those recruits who take more than ~120 AP to unlock the scholarship, when a sim comes in hot, be warned. Might be time to cut losses. To paraphrase Falstaff, and legendary pro wrestling announcer, Jim Ross, discretion is the better part of valor.

Thanks shoe. Definitely cutting losses at this point. I would have cut them after the last cycle, but I was intrigued to see how it would play it out if I added the last 11 HV.

For future I definitely know that bad preferences and high AP to unlock the scholarship are a bad combination when a sim is there.

Are you going after a D1 or D2 level recruit?

As a D3 coach, you're not going to get above moderate in RS1 no matter what you do. That's definitely the case if it's a D1 recruit. I think it's also the case if he's a D2 recruit.

You might actually be well ahead of the other team, but it's not going to show.

What's the recruits signing preference? I hope for your sake it's late.

Posted by tecwrg on 12/3/2020 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Are you going after a D1 or D2 level recruit?

As a D3 coach, you're not going to get above moderate in RS1 no matter what you do. That's definitely the case if it's a D1 recruit. I think it's also the case if he's a D2 recruit.

You might actually be well ahead of the other team, but it's not going to show.

What's the recruits signing preference? I hope for your sake it's late.

this was my question, too - but i'm assuming the OP is really very high. its still weird though, for the sim to be VH too, i'm surprised by that.

Have to bomb that guy early and drop sim team to very low. They will continue giving effort if you let them hang around. Knock them to very low early and hold them there an extra cycle and it usually ends that sim teams fight.

It's like when Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson were fighting. As long as Tyson wasn't knocking Buster Douglas out Buster thought he could win. Then you go to decision (%roll) or they land the one lucky punch that knocks you out for the win. In Buster Douglas's case he landed the lucky punch and took home the win then lost in his first title defense. Don't be a lazy Tyson. Crush them

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 12/3/2020 1:40:00 PM (view original):
Have to bomb that guy early and drop sim team to very low. They will continue giving effort if you let them hang around. Knock them to very low early and hold them there an extra cycle and it usually ends that sim teams fight.

It's like when Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson were fighting. As long as Tyson wasn't knocking Buster Douglas out Buster thought he could win. Then you go to decision (%roll) or they land the one lucky punch that knocks you out for the win. In Buster Douglas's case he landed the lucky punch and took home the win then lost in his first title defense. Don't be a lazy Tyson. Crush them

The risk of "bombing early" for a D3 coach on a higher level recruit to try to knock back a higher level sim is that a higher level human can swoop in at anytime and snatch him away fairly easily.

Posted by gillispie1 on 12/3/2020 1:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 12/3/2020 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Are you going after a D1 or D2 level recruit?

As a D3 coach, you're not going to get above moderate in RS1 no matter what you do. That's definitely the case if it's a D1 recruit. I think it's also the case if he's a D2 recruit.

You might actually be well ahead of the other team, but it's not going to show.

What's the recruits signing preference? I hope for your sake it's late.

this was my question, too - but i'm assuming the OP is really very high. its still weird though, for the sim to be VH too, i'm surprised by that.

For the D2 sim to be VH, the recruit must be a D2 guy, and the preferences are pretty good for the D2 sim.

Posted by gillispie1 on 12/3/2020 1:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 12/3/2020 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Are you going after a D1 or D2 level recruit?

As a D3 coach, you're not going to get above moderate in RS1 no matter what you do. That's definitely the case if it's a D1 recruit. I think it's also the case if he's a D2 recruit.

You might actually be well ahead of the other team, but it's not going to show.

What's the recruits signing preference? I hope for your sake it's late.

this was my question, too - but i'm assuming the OP is really very high. its still weird though, for the sim to be VH too, i'm surprised by that.

Right, assuming all info in OP is correct, this is a D2 pool recruit. It is possible the D3 teams are also really at Very High consideration here, but kept at moderate due to the red light, and may have a shot at the recruit, if he’s a late session signee - but they will need to keep up the AP at a pretty high level throughout the rest of session 1 to have a shot.

If this is a player who has an early or end of period 1 signing tendency (or whenever too, I’d say), GTFO of there. No shot.

Yea preferences have a major impact in the push down of sims. Definitely where the problem lies here

Timing is everything when pushing down sims. I use the promises as a range finder. If you're pushing the sim down early and quick (which is how you wanna do it), what happens is sim will "usually" offer before the human can. So by the time you get your offer in, its usually one of two scenarios......

1) sim very high and yes. Human moderate and yes
2) sim very high and yes. Human very low and yes.

I then offer the start and 15 or 20 min. At that point I'm looking for big movement. If sim is still very high after promises, I move on. It will be costly to continue. If sim drops to high, I know I'm going to have to spend a decent amount next cycle. If sim drops to moderate or anything lower, I know I can get them down.

Whatever I decide to do, I make sure 100% that I get them pushed down that next cycle. The longer you play around with it, the more it costs you in the end.

In the OP, the original unlock process even took too long. Chances are, sim had their offer in for multiple cycles before you unlocked. Once you offered promises, I'm gonna guess that sim didn't budge much. Then your first batch of visits was really small in comparison to what you were faced with. A lot of mistakes made every step of the way on this one. Sometimes its better to just walk away early on

Good learning situation

This is a D2 level recruit. End of Period 1 preference.

I'm totally out as there's no chance to sign him.

The sim offered a ship in the 3rd cycle. I unlocked the ship in the 3rd cycle and offered in the 4th. The earliest I could have unlocked the ship was in the 2nd cycle.

Topdogggbm - I disagree that there were a lot of mistakes every step of the way. If you want to explain how you would have attacked this please go ahead. I think you mean in regards to walking away, but if you would have done something different I'm interested to know what that is. I would have walked away sooner, but wanted to see how this would play out. Definitely a good learning situation.

Here is what I did in black vs the max I could have done in red.
1st Cycle - 50 AP vs 80 AP (who would do this as a D3 coach on a D2 recruit? Who offers 50 AP at D3 on 1 recruit in the 1st cycle? I only did it because I decided to only target 10 players with 6 openings to experiment).
2nd Cycle - 57 AP vs 80 AP - would have opened the ship
3rd Cycle - 80 AP vs same AP & ship offer
4th Cycle - 80 AP & ship offer vs same AP start & 25 minutes
5th Cycle - 80 AP - start & 25 minutes - vs CV & 20 HV (would anyone seriously offer that much, even 5 or 10 HV on a D2 recruit as a D3 coach at this point)?
6th Cycle - 80 AP - CV & 4 HV
7th Cycle - 80 AP & 5 HV
8th Cycle - 80 AP & 11 HV

The reason obviously has to be preferences. I don't know how Edinboro compares on the preferences or the other D3 human entirely. I think there would have been somewhere along the way that I would have knocked the sim from Very High down to at least High.