It doesn't matter. It's the reason I believe 2 teams in the same world at the same division level should be eliminated all together. As far as fairplay.

https://imgur.com/a/KtPAFKz

This is a first round matchup in the Naismith D2 NT. Coaching both teams, this is not what we want.

Sincerely yours,
Top "the crimedogg" gbm

I KNOW there's no intent of foul play here. He can't control this. But what happens if this matchup is in the F4 next time? Or the title game? It's just weird. It's at least something for the new WifS guys to see, be aware of, and discuss

I'm mixed on this. I'm honestly a lot more concerned about the misuse of scouting funds than I am on a coach having to play against themselves in a tournament. So long as they're following the fair play guidelines and they meaningfully gameplan for both teams/don't intentionally trash one of the two teams I don't really have an issue with it. It's not like you can intentionally position your two teams to matchup with each other in the NT unless you're controlling a lot more than two teams.

Agree and disagree top.

Agree having multiple teams in a world is something that should ideally be eliminated. However based on economics and the difficulty of monitoring it may not be possible.

Disagree that it is a problem with a coach facing themselves in the Big Dance. Watching them have to choose a team to advance and knowing they have to eliminate one of their teams is just fine with me. At worst they may make it a bye for one team and it costs them a team to do it.

Agree Top - same world/same division should not be allowed. In fact it makes it easier to cheat the FARTHER away they are from each other. Very easy to find those recruits with the FAR FROM HOME preference.

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 12/10/2020 9:57:00 AM (view original):
Agree and disagree top.

Agree having multiple teams in a world is something that should ideally be eliminated. However based on economics and the difficulty of monitoring it may not be possible.

Disagree that it is a problem with a coach facing themselves in the Big Dance. Watching them have to choose a team to advance and knowing they have to eliminate one of their teams is just fine with me. At worst they may make it a bye for one team and it costs them a team to do it.

Can't argue with that. I'm not concerned at all with it being a 1st round matchup. I don't really "care". The coach is cool. But does the site care?

However i agree with all who posted here..... two in the same division and same world sucks

If the issue is unfair scouting advantage, then having schools at different divisions could still be bad. DII schools can still scout DI recruits, even if it isn't as many. If that's the main concern, maybe it should be 1 team per world.

I'm more against having a team at D1 and then another team at D2 or D3 in the same world. The scouting budget at D1 is just SO big, especially compared to D3.

In Rupp I remember Jdno playing jdno2 in the championship game at least once (Illinois/Stanford). I'm sure playing against yourself in the NT has happened in other worlds as well but it's definitely rare.

Posted by mlitney on 12/10/2020 3:38:00 PM (view original):
If the issue is unfair scouting advantage, then having schools at different divisions could still be bad. DII schools can still scout DI recruits, even if it isn't as many. If that's the main concern, maybe it should be 1 team per world.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I think two teams in the same world is not good for the game in any way shape or form. 10 teams maximum is plenty fine.

In this case I just happened to narrow it down to the same division for this topic. I'm sure some coaches hate my outspokenness. So I was hoping I'd only get attacked by a couple coaches instead of dozens of coaches!

Posted by topdogggbm on 12/10/2020 9:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mlitney on 12/10/2020 3:38:00 PM (view original):
If the issue is unfair scouting advantage, then having schools at different divisions could still be bad. DII schools can still scout DI recruits, even if it isn't as many. If that's the main concern, maybe it should be 1 team per world.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I think two teams in the same world is not good for the game in any way shape or form. 10 teams maximum is plenty fine.

In this case I just happened to narrow it down to the same division for this topic. I'm sure some coaches hate my outspokenness. So I was hoping I'd only get attacked by a couple coaches instead of dozens of coaches!

again, its perhaps as little as 3 max, or 7 - if its an issue you have serious interest in discussing, you should treat it as such and at least pay due respect to the countless testimonials from folks who only want to play 1/day or only 2/day.

Posted by topdogggbm on 12/10/2020 5:34:00 AM (view original):
It doesn't matter. It's the reason I believe 2 teams in the same world at the same division level should be eliminated all together. As far as fairplay.

https://imgur.com/a/KtPAFKz

This is a first round matchup in the Naismith D2 NT. Coaching both teams, this is not what we want.

Sincerely yours,
Top "the crimedogg" gbm

I KNOW there's no intent of foul play here. He can't control this. But what happens if this matchup is in the F4 next time? Or the title game? It's just weird. It's at least something for the new WifS guys to see, be aware of, and discuss

i think there's a lot of legitimate reasons to be against multiple teams in a division, and it really comes down to people's emotions which of the items tends to upset them. i don't think its unreasonable to not want to see the above. i just personally don't share that opinion, i couldn't care less about the above - i think its cool, and that's about it.

i think in this particular case, the reason i don't care is because to me, fair play is about fair competition, which implies an emphasis on the conduct of higher end coaches. from the standpoint of any good, competitive coach focused on NT success, with 2 teams in the NT - you don't want them to run into each other. i've had it happen way back when - there's a coolness factor - but otherwise, it sucks. i tend to win vastly more than 50% of my NT games, and when i play myself, i'm winning 1 of 2 no matter what. playing yourself in the NT as a high end coach is, on the whole, a competitive disadvantage.

if you say, well what about less competitive coaches? well, i think in general most folks agree small advantages here and there for not that competitive folks, just aren't that big of a deal - but also, how often are those guys really going to meet themselves in the NT? its not that common of a thing unless you have multiple programs making deep runs regularly. sure, it will happen here and there, maybe meeting in the first round in a 10v7 or 5v12 or something - maybe even in the second - but i just fail to see any meaningful risk to the systemic balance if once in a blue moon some decent or good (but not great coach) plays themselves in the NT.

IMO, its all emotions - and if you don't like it, i can respect that. but i can't see how it is an issue from a competitive standpoint.

If this user scouted for both of those teams this year, then both teams are in violation of the FPGs.

"Collusion includes any act that supports bad, deceitful or illegal behavior agreed upon by two or more users or attempted by a single user. Here are a few examples:

• Sharing Future Stars Scouting (FSS) information between multiple teams"

-Taken from the FPGs, I would post a link but ya'll know where to find them.

Posted by gillispie1 on 12/11/2020 12:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 12/10/2020 5:34:00 AM (view original):
It doesn't matter. It's the reason I believe 2 teams in the same world at the same division level should be eliminated all together. As far as fairplay.

https://imgur.com/a/KtPAFKz

This is a first round matchup in the Naismith D2 NT. Coaching both teams, this is not what we want.

Sincerely yours,
Top "the crimedogg" gbm

I KNOW there's no intent of foul play here. He can't control this. But what happens if this matchup is in the F4 next time? Or the title game? It's just weird. It's at least something for the new WifS guys to see, be aware of, and discuss

i think there's a lot of legitimate reasons to be against multiple teams in a division, and it really comes down to people's emotions which of the items tends to upset them. i don't think its unreasonable to not want to see the above. i just personally don't share that opinion, i couldn't care less about the above - i think its cool, and that's about it.

i think in this particular case, the reason i don't care is because to me, fair play is about fair competition, which implies an emphasis on the conduct of higher end coaches. from the standpoint of any good, competitive coach focused on NT success, with 2 teams in the NT - you don't want them to run into each other. i've had it happen way back when - there's a coolness factor - but otherwise, it sucks. i tend to win vastly more than 50% of my NT games, and when i play myself, i'm winning 1 of 2 no matter what. playing yourself in the NT as a high end coach is, on the whole, a competitive disadvantage.

if you say, well what about less competitive coaches? well, i think in general most folks agree small advantages here and there for not that competitive folks, just aren't that big of a deal - but also, how often are those guys really going to meet themselves in the NT? its not that common of a thing unless you have multiple programs making deep runs regularly. sure, it will happen here and there, maybe meeting in the first round in a 10v7 or 5v12 or something - maybe even in the second - but i just fail to see any meaningful risk to the systemic balance if once in a blue moon some decent or good (but not great coach) plays themselves in the NT.

IMO, its all emotions - and if you don't like it, i can respect that. but i can't see how it is an issue from a competitive standpoint.

I can dig this. At the end of the day, nothing we're discussing here is crippling. I respect your opinion on this. And I see your point as well. After all, we are playing a game here. We're all gonna survive no matter how it is handled.

In the same manner you said it doesn't bother you, it does bother me. And I'm cool with both. I admit I'm that guy that notices stand out things that irritate me. That's pretty well proven. Not in a manner of "crying about it".

But if I'm playing softball, and someone brings an illegal bat, I'm the one that points it out. Others might say "who cares, look at it, it's still a bat". But all in the same breath, I don't pack it up and go home just because of it....... I just work harder to make sure I perform better and try to make you look bad, in that even tho you brought your bullshit bat to the game that isn't allowed, I'm still better than you! ;)

In a competitive spirit type of manner! Really.

Some things really bother me tho. Something like this issue, not much weight with me. My REAL issues come, when I feel like whatever is being done is not even "playing the same game we all are". Not to get into the same ol dead horse beating, but like if someone is not playing to build a team and win, and they are just here to game the system...... get on outta here.

i agree with that dogg. and i agree its a valid opinion not to like the above. but i definitely agree with your point about the folks not playing the same game being the biggest problem. IMO severe recruiting collusion is the big one. its a clear competitive advantage for both teams involved (or all, in a 3+ case), and its something people can do season in and season out, creating a durable and very substantial advantage. i don't mind the playing yourself in the NT because its a clear competitive disadvantage to the best coaches, and because its a nearly impossible thing to control - if someone is good enough to consistently line up their good team with their bad one for an easy NT win (via cheating and throwing the game), they are probably wasting their time - that sounds harder than winning the old fashioned way!

i also share similarly negligible compassion for those who are cheating on purpose to game the system. i just don't like the dogma that sometimes comes about in these. for example you are a coach who only plays 1/day. there's guys like you with 2/day. after so many times of you bringing this up, you certainly know that - and know that suggesting folks get 10 teams before the 1/world becomes a real issue is just intentionally misleading. i'm not saying this point proves we should have multiple teams - i'm not advocating for multiple teams at all. i'm advocating for a non dogmatic discussion of the tradeoffs - especially in the context of 'hey let's get this changed, maybe the new admin will see it'.

Posted by fluff_nasty on 12/11/2020 1:57:00 AM (view original):
If this user scouted for both of those teams this year, then both teams are in violation of the FPGs.

"Collusion includes any act that supports bad, deceitful or illegal behavior agreed upon by two or more users or attempted by a single user. Here are a few examples:

• Sharing Future Stars Scouting (FSS) information between multiple teams"

-Taken from the FPGs, I would post a link but ya'll know where to find them.

your interpretation of these lines is not the stated interpretation of the game admins, and i'm pretty sure you know that. two teams are explicitly allowed in a world as long as certain precautions are taken (1000 miles, different conferences) and the situation is not abused. i get you are annoyed about how the FPGs were applied to you, but you intentionally threw a NT game and lied about it, and then made a big show of carrying on like a fool. continuing to carry on about it isn't doing you any favors, coming from perhaps the one guy who actually defended you up front (i guess i more called for a calm and empathetic response, more than defended you, i suppose, but still - i suspect i was the closest thing to a defender you got).

Posted by gillispie1 on 12/11/2020 1:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fluff_nasty on 12/11/2020 1:57:00 AM (view original):
If this user scouted for both of those teams this year, then both teams are in violation of the FPGs.

"Collusion includes any act that supports bad, deceitful or illegal behavior agreed upon by two or more users or attempted by a single user. Here are a few examples:

• Sharing Future Stars Scouting (FSS) information between multiple teams"

-Taken from the FPGs, I would post a link but ya'll know where to find them.

your interpretation of these lines is not the stated interpretation of the game admins, and i'm pretty sure you know that. two teams are explicitly allowed in a world as long as certain precautions are taken (1000 miles, different conferences) and the situation is not abused. i get you are annoyed about how the FPGs were applied to you, but you intentionally threw a NT game and lied about it, and then made a big show of carrying on like a fool. continuing to carry on about it isn't doing you any favors, coming from perhaps the one guy who actually defended you up front (i guess i more called for a calm and empathetic response, more than defended you, i suppose, but still - i suspect i was the closest thing to a defender you got).

Topdogggbm says: "It doesn't matter. It's the reason I believe 2 teams in the same world at the same division level should be eliminated all together. As far as fairplay."

All I'm saying is that he has some some legitimate ground to stand on according to the FPGs.

According to the FPGs, a user can have two teams 1,000 miles apart, but can only scout for one of them.

If he really wants to shut down multiple teams in the same world, the FPGs are on his side. That is my point here.