Posted by shoe3 on 12/11/2020 4:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Basketts on 12/11/2020 4:31:00 PM (view original):
I've mentioned this before, but D3 really should just be for new coaches. After 5-10 seasons, there should be a forced promotion to D2, or you could jump straight to D1 easier to satisfy getting their quicker. Most games out there, whether its first person shooters or FIFA, do not throw new players at veterans. They have matchmaking ratings, social/ranked game modes, etc. It's all designed to not scare away players who are trying to learn the game. It wouldn't be so widely adopted if there wasn't merit to it.

It won't happen. Enough veterans have dynasties in D3 that WIS won't want to upset, even though those same teams probably bring in very little revenue, if any at all given the reward structure. Plus it might upset the players who have alma maters at D3 that they'd prefer to coach.

My personal favorite idea is still to make D3 a free to play, no-credit sandbox. Sure you can stay as long as you want at your alma mater, but if you want credits, you have to move up. In that case, I would support closing off the pool; it would be necessary. And actually, that would be much more realistic, as there is a lot of overlap of quality between high D2 and low D1. But at D3, where players don’t get scholarships, schools are typically drawing a different sort of student athlete.

I think this is a great idea. One thing that could be done in conjunction with a no-credit D3 would be to increase the credits at D1 by 50%. Still a slight net-gain for WIS, as they'd only be paying out 2.5 divisions worth of current credits than a full 3. That should give owners even more incentive to move up to D1 rather than stay parked at D2.

This would also definitely require a closed D3 pool, full of D3 quality players. You can't have paying and non-paying users competing for the same resources. But you can still have a single shared pool for D1 and D2. That also gives incentive to not stay parked indefinitely in D3 . . . you'll have access to better players if you move up and pay.

One of the side effects of a free D3 is that it should give more incentive for new users to stick around longer to learn the game, rather than bail after back-to-back 4-23 seasons when they don't really know much other than the feeling that they are throwing their money.

You'd probably also see some existing users taking on additional D3 teams. If they're free, why not? Plus, fuller D3 worlds also provide better optics to new users who come into worlds full of fellow humans rather than worlds full of SIMs.

One restriction that I would put on existing users taking on additional D3 teams . . . you can only have as many free D3 teams as you have current paying teams in D1 and D2.

As for mlitney's suggestion of D3 teams being auto-renewed . . . bad idea. I can see a bunch of zombie D3's out there from users losing interest and checking out, while their D3's auto-renew indefinitely. That would not be a good thing.

If they were to take the free-D3 step, it would also make sense in conjunction with some other big updates, like adding preferences, adding lineup options (late-game, free-throw, 3-pt shooting, 2-3 zone, 3-2 zone, etc), and gil’s 5-6 deep depth charts. Add those gameplanning layers to the paid game. Keep free-D3 where it is.

These are all great ideas.

Posted by shoe3 on 12/11/2020 7:56:00 PM (view original):
If they were to take the free-D3 step, it would also make sense in conjunction with some other big updates, like adding preferences, adding lineup options (late-game, free-throw, 3-pt shooting, 2-3 zone, 3-2 zone, etc), and gil’s 5-6 deep depth charts. Add those gameplanning layers to the paid game. Keep free-D3 where it is.

Honestly, 6 deep-depth charts, is where injuries could really happen.?

Seriously though, if you have 6 players splitting practice time at any position that could be awkward?

Although, done remotely?

Free D3 should also be timebound. Each world completely resets after 7 seasons. New users always come in during season 1. This gives them up to 7 seasons to first learn the game and how to recruit, and then have a couple of complete recruiting classes.

In order to do this, D3 would need to be completely separated from the existing worlds and be instantiated as brand new worlds. And would need to be staggered such that a new one starts every week. Since seasons last seven weeks, this would mean that a different world would be resetting every week for the next set of new users to jump into.

This also prevents experienced users from creating perennial powerhouses, as they would need to start completely over every seven seasons.

One other big argument in favor of free D3, IMO - it’s potentially a permanent built-in beta testing world for developers to tweak and prod and poke. That’s how I would use it, anyway. Want to see how an academic preference works in real time? Let’s roll out in D3. Is press overpowered, or do we want to dial back the effect of slowdown? See how a change plays in D3.

So why would someone want to move up to D2 and start paying when they can play D3 for free?

And why would WIS want to cut their revenue by 1/3?

Posted by cedarberry on 12/11/2020 8:25:00 PM (view original):
Seriously though, if you have 6 players splitting practice time at any position that could be awkward?

its not about that. blank spaces on the depth chart can be used to control substitution patterns, and this often leaves not enough room for the full slate of backup options. a 5th row would go a really long way, but when you are trying to sub against the grain (shift right) i could definitely see getting into 6. no question.

Posted by Benis on 12/11/2020 9:14:00 PM (view original):
So why would someone want to move up to D2 and start paying when they can play D3 for free?

One option would be to remove post-season play in these special D3 worlds (Essentially just a longer version of the free Spring League you can have in SLB). No championships or any post-season, just recruiting, non-conf and conference play.

Posted by gillispie1 on 12/11/2020 9:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cedarberry on 12/11/2020 8:25:00 PM (view original):
Seriously though, if you have 6 players splitting practice time at any position that could be awkward?

its not about that. blank spaces on the depth chart can be used to control substitution patterns, and this often leaves not enough room for the full slate of backup options. a 5th row would go a really long way, but when you are trying to sub against the grain (shift right) i could definitely see getting into 6. no question.

The D3 thing sounds fine, obviously a fifth row is cool, but six is questionable. A compromise could be a D3 only world with 5 rows

Posted by tecwrg on 12/11/2020 7:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/11/2020 4:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Basketts on 12/11/2020 4:31:00 PM (view original):
I've mentioned this before, but D3 really should just be for new coaches. After 5-10 seasons, there should be a forced promotion to D2, or you could jump straight to D1 easier to satisfy getting their quicker. Most games out there, whether its first person shooters or FIFA, do not throw new players at veterans. They have matchmaking ratings, social/ranked game modes, etc. It's all designed to not scare away players who are trying to learn the game. It wouldn't be so widely adopted if there wasn't merit to it.

It won't happen. Enough veterans have dynasties in D3 that WIS won't want to upset, even though those same teams probably bring in very little revenue, if any at all given the reward structure. Plus it might upset the players who have alma maters at D3 that they'd prefer to coach.

My personal favorite idea is still to make D3 a free to play, no-credit sandbox. Sure you can stay as long as you want at your alma mater, but if you want credits, you have to move up. In that case, I would support closing off the pool; it would be necessary. And actually, that would be much more realistic, as there is a lot of overlap of quality between high D2 and low D1. But at D3, where players don’t get scholarships, schools are typically drawing a different sort of student athlete.

I think this is a great idea. One thing that could be done in conjunction with a no-credit D3 would be to increase the credits at D1 by 50%. Still a slight net-gain for WIS, as they'd only be paying out 2.5 divisions worth of current credits than a full 3. That should give owners even more incentive to move up to D1 rather than stay parked at D2.

This would also definitely require a closed D3 pool, full of D3 quality players. You can't have paying and non-paying users competing for the same resources. But you can still have a single shared pool for D1 and D2. That also gives incentive to not stay parked indefinitely in D3 . . . you'll have access to better players if you move up and pay.

One of the side effects of a free D3 is that it should give more incentive for new users to stick around longer to learn the game, rather than bail after back-to-back 4-23 seasons when they don't really know much other than the feeling that they are throwing their money.

You'd probably also see some existing users taking on additional D3 teams. If they're free, why not? Plus, fuller D3 worlds also provide better optics to new users who come into worlds full of fellow humans rather than worlds full of SIMs.

One restriction that I would put on existing users taking on additional D3 teams . . . you can only have as many free D3 teams as you have current paying teams in D1 and D2.

As for mlitney's suggestion of D3 teams being auto-renewed . . . bad idea. I can see a bunch of zombie D3's out there from users losing interest and checking out, while their D3's auto-renew indefinitely. That would not be a good thing.

Yeah you obviously impose some sort of auto-boot if a player doesn't log in for 30 days or so. I was thinking about that but didn't write it for some reason.

If you have a free division 3 you will see a lot of people have a team in each world at the division 3 level. That will likely create more problems as eventually all the D3 worlds will be full, and new owners will not have access to the game.. Soccer Dynasty is free and I have 1 team for that reason.

My solution would be to maximize the free seasons at D3 somewhere between 6 and 10 per user name. That way you won't see someone building free dynasties at division 3 and schools will eventually be opening up for new owners.