Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 11:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 12:27:00 AM (view original):
Personally, I just want America to be better. If that means taxing super wealthy people to benefit 99% of the country, I will absolutely do it.

It's a pretty easy decision. A marginal hindrance on a small minority of people and a great benefit to everyone else.

So you want to punish success to help those who didn't have the drive to achieve said success. OK.

You aren't punished for success. You're providing more opportunities to achieve success. Being rich will still be better than being poor.

OK

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to? I did not just stumble upon my job. I achieved my compensation via experience and education that I paid for with time and money. You decided to settle for less but you want everything equal to me? So answer my simple question.

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to?

Thanks

Posted by laramiebob on 12/17/2020 11:36:00 AM (view original):
Borrowing is the PROBLEM here.

I'm really not sure when this "concept" of borrowing money to attend college became fashionable or "common", but THAT'S the problem here.

NO ONE in the mid 1800's borrowed money to attend school. Fact is no one borrowed money for much of anything.
The good book advises strongly against either borrowing or lending money.
THAT is solid advise.

Somewhere along the line students bought into the concept of financing their educations on a LOAN!!
WRONG!

Wyatt Earp studied Law. Had to give it up. Had to feed himself and family. Studying Law didn't pay the bills.

ONLY the elites/wealthiest of us used to be able to afford higher education.
Most of us decided that wasn't really equitable.
College was good for the middle class and poor too!
BUT, paying for it?? Not on our Taxes? Not then? No politician would say that.......... then.
So. FINANCING became the ticket. Let's let the masses BORROW for college.
More like let's enslave the stupid on the idea we're gonna make 'em smart.
Obviously......... they needed smartening up. But saddling them with college loans was an expensive lesson that benefitted VERY FEW of them.
And has created a nightmare issue. HOW can you possibly forgive "student debt" thereby freeing up 1000's of folks from their own stupid decision and be fair to all the responsible citizen students who attended and graduated college WITHOUT amassing debt they couldn't afford to pay back??

I don't think that THAT is possible.
What are you going to do for those students to level out the playing field?
I personally know 2 graduate students (one with a PHD, the other a Masters) who finished their higher education with ZERO dollars owing to student loans.
How it is fair to them to reward the personally irresponsible and NOT render the responsible unfairly disadvantaged?

I don't think it is.
That's why there can be NO government paid for student loan debt forgiveness.
It's rewarding the unwise and slapping the brightest in the face!

Thank you, Bob.

Agreed. Thanks, bob.

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 12:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 11:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 12:27:00 AM (view original):
Personally, I just want America to be better. If that means taxing super wealthy people to benefit 99% of the country, I will absolutely do it.

It's a pretty easy decision. A marginal hindrance on a small minority of people and a great benefit to everyone else.

So you want to punish success to help those who didn't have the drive to achieve said success. OK.

You aren't punished for success. You're providing more opportunities to achieve success. Being rich will still be better than being poor.

OK

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to? I did not just stumble upon my job. I achieved my compensation via experience and education that I paid for with time and money. You decided to settle for less but you want everything equal to me? So answer my simple question.

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to?

Thanks

all of it

should the voters decide to take it



render unto caeser kaiser chang and king

Just my opinion of course.
But fair is fair.

Now, both of you.
The same guy you just praised for an intellectually honest opinion...........says to you, HONESTLY, it is clear to me that two things exist, that I believe you both TRY and deny.
Boris, personnally, you and I are as much friends as one can be on the internet only. Doesn't mean we agree on much, or anything, BUT it means we share a mutual respect as Fathers and Americans who give a **** about our Country.
I think most here do actually.

As I said, I'm intellectually CONVINCED that two things are real.
I MUST challenge you both, because of that same intellectual honesty.

Climate change (accelerated AND partially CAUSED by HUMAN activity) IS very very real. Sadly!
We must wake up soon (globally but particularly in our OWN homes) or our descendants will NEED another ecosystem somewhere else. I'm not sure we'll find another habitable and accessible planet.
#2. Systemic racism is also (sadly) all too real.

To Boris particularly. I will concede to you that in SOME regions, in SOME neighborhoods, in SOME communities, even in SOME individual hearts..........one on one, personal racism and bigotry is very very much less common than it was just 30 and 40 years ago. I DO think that many younger Americans do NOT see color when interacting with strangers they encounter in their lives/communities. BUT, and THIS IS EQUALLY TRUE, in far far too many communities and regions and hearts (sadly) racism and bigotry is still very very real in America. It is real and present in my State, my region of my State, and my own little community. In far far too many hearts. THAT is a truth we ALL must reckon with and NOT try and deny.

Your fervent belief that systematic racism doesn't any longer exist is a fantasy.
It makes you appear to be blind and bigoted.
I don't believe you are either!

Thus I implore you both............ IF I, a known and avowed liberal can easily see issues wherein my simple honest logic appeals to you that are "right" of me on the political spectrum, than surely you can summon up some courage of your own and admit when you may have misstated something or have stated an opinion that is clearly not supportable by logical intellectually, blunt honest folk. Like me.

Do me a favor. Don't insult me by trying to tell me what I know IS, isn't in your view.
It just makes it harder for me to support you when you ARE right, because intellectual dishonesty scares the bejesus out of me.

Ask your 2 black friends Boris, (that IS a JOKE!) about it. See if I'm not correct. I'll bet they admit to you that, indeed, systematic racism is still a problem for many POC even if it ain't for them personally.
And read the scientifically available data on our "polluted" atmosphere and the result of that pollution. It's very overwhelming and I KNOW (very personally) one scientist who has studied (in depth!) the matter---- who would NOT mislead me who can clearly explain the reality. To argue with it, from a science POV requires a person to give in to the POLITICS of the issue and NOT believe the clear truth.
You are also calling my highly educated daughter (a MOTHER!) a liar.......... or stupid. SHE is neither.

Merry Christmas to all WIS users!
Best hopes for 2021. IMO it can't be a whole lot worse.

Pluswhise the folks who couldn't get a loan for college now get to pay off the loans of those that did. AMERICA!!!!

Posted by laramiebob on 12/17/2020 1:23:00 PM (view original):
Just my opinion of course.
But fair is fair.

Now, both of you.
The same guy you just praised for an intellectually honest opinion...........says to you, HONESTLY, it is clear to me that two things exist, that I believe you both TRY and deny.
Boris, personnally, you and I are as much friends as one can be on the internet only. Doesn't mean we agree on much, or anything, BUT it means we share a mutual respect as Fathers and Americans who give a **** about our Country.
I think most here do actually.

As I said, I'm intellectually CONVINCED that two things are real.
I MUST challenge you both, because of that same intellectual honesty.

Climate change (accelerated AND partially CAUSED by HUMAN activity) IS very very real. Sadly!
We must wake up soon (globally but particularly in our OWN homes) or our descendants will NEED another ecosystem somewhere else. I'm not sure we'll find another habitable and accessible planet.
#2. Systemic racism is also (sadly) all too real.

To Boris particularly. I will concede to you that in SOME regions, in SOME neighborhoods, in SOME communities, even in SOME individual hearts..........one on one, personal racism and bigotry is very very much less common than it was just 30 and 40 years ago. I DO think that many younger Americans do NOT see color when interacting with strangers they encounter in their lives/communities. BUT, and THIS IS EQUALLY TRUE, in far far too many communities and regions and hearts (sadly) racism and bigotry is still very very real in America. It is real and present in my State, my region of my State, and my own little community. In far far too many hearts. THAT is a truth we ALL must reckon with and NOT try and deny.

Your fervent belief that systematic racism doesn't any longer exist is a fantasy.
It makes you appear to be blind and bigoted.
I don't believe you are either!

Thus I implore you both............ IF I, a known and avowed liberal can easily see issues wherein my simple honest logic appeals to you that are "right" of me on the political spectrum, than surely you can summon up some courage of your own and admit when you may have misstated something or have stated an opinion that is clearly not supportable by logical intellectual honest folk. Like me.

Do me a favor. Don't insult me by trying to tell me what I know IS, isn't in your view.
It just makes it harder for me to support you when you ARE right, because intellectual dishonesty scares the bejesus out of me.

Ask your 2 black friends Boris, (that IS a JOKE!) about it. See if I'm not correct. I'll bet they admit to you that, indeed, systematic racism is still a problem for many POC even if it ain't for them personally.
And read the scientifically available data on our "polluted" atmosphere and the result of that pollution. It's very overwhelming and I KNOW (very personally) one scientist who has studied (in depth!) the matter---- who would NOT mislead me who can clearly explain the reality. To argue with it, from a science POV requires a person to give in to the POLITICS of the issue and NOT believe the clear truth.
You are also calling my highly educated daughter (a MOTHER!) a liar.......... or stupid. SHE is neither.

Merry Christmas to all WIS users!
Best hopes for 2021. IMO it can't be a whole lot worse.

Of course we have racists and maybe living in New England I just don't run into many. I just don't believe that the majority of the country is racist. Of course there is climate change. Of course humans share in the responsibility. We should do all we can within reasons to help. Green New Deal is not within reason IMO. My black friends and I really have more than two but two are very close friends, they want to be treated as equals not as lesser people and not as those who need special treatment. My black friends are all Republicans sans one and I am actually more moderate than they are. But again we live in the Northeast. I do not know how people feel in Charlotte, NC; Tempe, AZ; Ann Arbour, MI, etc.

I am more than happy to have such discussions. What I dislike is people like tangplay telling me that whites are racist, that rich don't pay enough and that the Democratic party is the be all and end all. We just elected a true swamp creature. 47 years in office, I cannot name one prominent accomplishment of his.

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 12:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 11:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 12:27:00 AM (view original):
Personally, I just want America to be better. If that means taxing super wealthy people to benefit 99% of the country, I will absolutely do it.

It's a pretty easy decision. A marginal hindrance on a small minority of people and a great benefit to everyone else.

So you want to punish success to help those who didn't have the drive to achieve said success. OK.

You aren't punished for success. You're providing more opportunities to achieve success. Being rich will still be better than being poor.

OK

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to? I did not just stumble upon my job. I achieved my compensation via experience and education that I paid for with time and money. You decided to settle for less but you want everything equal to me? So answer my simple question.

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to?

Thanks

However much is necessary to provide for government programs that would improve the country, of course, without detracting significantly from your standard of living.

You're welcome.

Hey buddy, I never said that the majority of Americans are racist. In fact, I specifically said that modern systemic racism does not require active individual racism from all involved to be present.

It's all about implicit bias, which we know for a fact exists in most, if not all people.

And systemic racism is real, just factually. You got real triggered when I tried to cite studies to back this point up. I would love to cite more if you are willing to have that discussion.

TY Boris. I agree with much of that.
I'll even go so far as to say that Biden, indeed is a true "creature" of our political system. Maybe even part of that swamp.
I voted for him with a VERY tightly held nose. My vote was clearly to oust someone who I believe to be far worse for our freedom and our Country.

BUT, I'm watching and my vote is NOT pledged to any one for tomorrow.
I don't want to bother arguing about Trump's LACKS of accomplishment, nor about his character, swampiness, criminality etc.
Like HRC, He is history. And I'll let the real historians tell the tale. I just read their finished works.

Our Country has a chance for a new start. I contend we MUST hold us all to the clear standard of TRUTH. No more accepting lies because the liar is on our side!! Lies are lies. IF Biden becomes the inveterate liar Trump is, I'll hollar about him just as loudly as I did Trump.

We MUST hold our elected legislators accountable and CALL THEM OUT when they don't do what's right for the Country as a whole.
1 little example (pardon me for using a Republican, but I just found this out)
Rep. Senator Kelli Loughlin (appointed to her position by the recently elected Gov. of Georgia), who is of course now running in the runoff election 1/5/2021, had not that long ago purchased a 10 Million home in Atlanta. (Paid some $170,000 in yearly Property taxes) Seems that, a short couple of years later, the assessed value of the home "mysteriously" dropped some 4 MILLION dollars. And all the paperwork supporting the re-evaluation of her "mansion" by the County bureaucrats have "disappeared". NO paper trail. NADA!

This is HOW our Government really works. For BOTH parties.
And why we MUST stop voting on the basis of some (evil) mysterious affiliation.
We MUST make these people represent US! Or vote them out.
That's exactly what we did with Trump. We voted him out.

And IF he won't leave we should drag him out, try him, and hang him!

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 1:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 12:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 11:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 12:27:00 AM (view original):
Personally, I just want America to be better. If that means taxing super wealthy people to benefit 99% of the country, I will absolutely do it.

It's a pretty easy decision. A marginal hindrance on a small minority of people and a great benefit to everyone else.

So you want to punish success to help those who didn't have the drive to achieve said success. OK.

You aren't punished for success. You're providing more opportunities to achieve success. Being rich will still be better than being poor.

OK

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to? I did not just stumble upon my job. I achieved my compensation via experience and education that I paid for with time and money. You decided to settle for less but you want everything equal to me? So answer my simple question.

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to?

Thanks

However much is necessary to provide for government programs that would improve the country, of course, without detracting significantly from your standard of living.

You're welcome.

So how much is that? I need every $1. If My AGI is $400 and I am paying ~35% in total tax, how much more should I pay? Give me a number.

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 1:35:00 PM (view original):
Hey buddy, I never said that the majority of Americans are racist. In fact, I specifically said that modern systemic racism does not require active individual racism from all involved to be present.

It's all about implicit bias, which we know for a fact exists in most, if not all people.

And systemic racism is real, just factually. You got real triggered when I tried to cite studies to back this point up. I would love to cite more if you are willing to have that discussion.

what in the blue hell is "implicit bias"? You mean stereotyping? What studies? By leftists who don't have real jobs?

Give me an example of a systemically racist policy and or institution and I'll gladly fight against it. Racism is evil.

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 1:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 1:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 12:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 11:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 12:27:00 AM (view original):
Personally, I just want America to be better. If that means taxing super wealthy people to benefit 99% of the country, I will absolutely do it.

It's a pretty easy decision. A marginal hindrance on a small minority of people and a great benefit to everyone else.

So you want to punish success to help those who didn't have the drive to achieve said success. OK.

You aren't punished for success. You're providing more opportunities to achieve success. Being rich will still be better than being poor.

OK

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to? I did not just stumble upon my job. I achieved my compensation via experience and education that I paid for with time and money. You decided to settle for less but you want everything equal to me? So answer my simple question.

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to?

Thanks

However much is necessary to provide for government programs that would improve the country, of course, without detracting significantly from your standard of living.

You're welcome.

So how much is that? I need every $1. If My AGI is $400 and I am paying ~35% in total tax, how much more should I pay? Give me a number.

I don't know. It depends on how much we spend and how much you make. Based on how you describe yourself, it shouldn't be too much. I'd prefer to focus on billionaires.

Posted by laramiebob on 12/17/2020 1:45:00 PM (view original):
TY Boris. I agree with much of that.
I'll even go so far as to say that Biden, indeed is a true "creature" of our political system. Maybe even part of that swamp.
I voted for him with a VERY tightly held nose. My vote was clearly to oust someone who I believe to be far worse for our freedom and our Country.

BUT, I'm watching and my vote is NOT pledged to any one for tomorrow.
I don't want to bother arguing about Trump's LACKS of accomplishment, nor about his character, swampiness, criminality etc.
Like HRC, He is history. And I'll let the real historians tell the tale. I just read their finished works.

Our Country has a chance for a new start. I contend we MUST hold us all to the clear standard of TRUTH. No more accepting lies because the liar is on our side!! Lies are lies. IF Biden becomes the inveterate liar Trump is, I'll hollar about him just as loudly as I did Trump.

We MUST hold our elected legislators accountable and CALL THEM OUT when they don't do what's right for the Country as a whole.
1 little example (pardon me for using a Republican, but I just found this out)
Rep. Senator Kelli Loughlin (appointed to her position by the recently elected Gov. of Georgia), who is of course now running in the runoff election 1/5/2021, had not that long ago purchased a 10 Million home in Atlanta. (Paid some $170,000 in yearly Property taxes) Seems that, a short couple of years later, the assessed value of the home "mysteriously" dropped some 4 MILLION dollars. And all the paperwork supporting the re-evaluation of her "mansion" by the County bureaucrats have "disappeared". NO paper trail. NADA!

This is HOW our Government really works. For BOTH parties.
And why we MUST stop voting on the basis of some (evil) mysterious affiliation.
We MUST make these people represent US! Or vote them out.
That's exactly what we did with Trump. We voted him out.

And IF he won't leave we should drag him out, try him, and hang him!

Its less about GOP but more about wealth privilege. Look at Pelosi, Bush family, Newsom (part of the Pelosi family), Biden (he is rich but has been in office for 47 years) and yes he is the next President but the Hunter laptop is a fishy story the media tried to cover up. Clintons, super dirty. Being a swamp creature is a bi partisan trait it seems. We need more people like you in the world and fewer like tangplay.

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 1:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 1:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 12:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 11:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2020 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2020 12:27:00 AM (view original):
Personally, I just want America to be better. If that means taxing super wealthy people to benefit 99% of the country, I will absolutely do it.

It's a pretty easy decision. A marginal hindrance on a small minority of people and a great benefit to everyone else.

So you want to punish success to help those who didn't have the drive to achieve said success. OK.

You aren't punished for success. You're providing more opportunities to achieve success. Being rich will still be better than being poor.

OK

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to? I did not just stumble upon my job. I achieved my compensation via experience and education that I paid for with time and money. You decided to settle for less but you want everything equal to me? So answer my simple question.

How much of my hard earned money are you entitled to?

Thanks

However much is necessary to provide for government programs that would improve the country, of course, without detracting significantly from your standard of living.

You're welcome.

So how much is that? I need every $1. If My AGI is $400 and I am paying ~35% in total tax, how much more should I pay? Give me a number.

I don't know. It depends on how much we spend and how much you make. Based on how you describe yourself, it shouldn't be too much. I'd prefer to focus on billionaires.

Me: "Give me a number"
Tangplay: "It shouldn't be too much"

Yep, that is our education system folks.