This post is for my curiosity above all else.

My conference coaches in Iba told me that recruiting in the Midwest (I’m in Indiana) is difficult in that world. So far it’s early in RS1 but it seems much smoother to me than Midwest in Knight where I’ve been stampeded as a D2 in RS1 two seasons in a row.

My most recent streak of luck, of all places, was at my D2 Hawaii school in Crum.

Cough up your secrets! Recruiting nightmare spots and secret success corners. Which world is the easiest and hardest for you lately?

Smith southeast is a nightmare (D2), Allen southeast is a nightmare (D2), Wooden midwest is getting pretty difficult based from what I've heard (D2)

Also in Midwest/Great Plains in Iba and it was really really nice as a D+/C- prestige team.

Midwest in D2 Knight is a beast, I agree. I’ve given up on the combo defense there, and gone full press, because I have just gotten clobbered by power conference D1 schools for those #75-150 by position guys zone teams need to land (at least sometimes) to keep up with the deep press teams. Started really happening my last championship year, and has been relentless ever since. More than a couple years, it’s been every single one of my main targets getting snatched away late in the first session, or early in the late session for late signing recruits. It’s pretty wild. I don’t know how the guys out west or down south are doing, maybe it’s like that out there, too; but it’s a lot tougher than it was a dozen seasons ago, or my last D2 experience in Naismith, that’s for sure.

Posted by shoe3 on 1/5/2021 6:22:00 PM (view original):
Midwest in D2 Knight is a beast, I agree. I’ve given up on the combo defense there, and gone full press, because I have just gotten clobbered by power conference D1 schools for those #75-150 by position guys zone teams need to land (at least sometimes) to keep up with the deep press teams. Started really happening my last championship year, and has been relentless ever since. More than a couple years, it’s been every single one of my main targets getting snatched away late in the first session, or early in the late session for late signing recruits. It’s pretty wild. I don’t know how the guys out west or down south are doing, maybe it’s like that out there, too; but it’s a lot tougher than it was a dozen seasons ago, or my last D2 experience in Naismith, that’s for sure.

Creativity is key around those D2 parts.

Posted by shoe3 on 1/5/2021 6:22:00 PM (view original):
Midwest in D2 Knight is a beast, I agree. I’ve given up on the combo defense there, and gone full press, because I have just gotten clobbered by power conference D1 schools for those #75-150 by position guys zone teams need to land (at least sometimes) to keep up with the deep press teams. Started really happening my last championship year, and has been relentless ever since. More than a couple years, it’s been every single one of my main targets getting snatched away late in the first session, or early in the late session for late signing recruits. It’s pretty wild. I don’t know how the guys out west or down south are doing, maybe it’s like that out there, too; but it’s a lot tougher than it was a dozen seasons ago, or my last D2 experience in Naismith, that’s for sure.

interesting. i havent looked at the numbers in a while, but it seemed like covid might be driving world pop numbers up for the first time i can remember (except freehd + d3 only). i'll have to look, but i wonder if perhaps you are seeing more competition for those recruits from d1 growing? (if that happened, which i have no idea if it did or not)

Yeah, it’s driven by what’s happening at D1, I’m sure. Pretty healthy population there in Knight, relatively.

I would say that recruiting doesn't really depend on the location as much as the other coaches around you. If you are at a d2 school, a bad d1 coach, can be a nightmare for a d2 school. Or a good d2 coach in your area can also make it difficult.

Posted by Arfy on 1/5/2021 7:55:00 PM (view original):
I would say that recruiting doesn't really depend on the location as much as the other coaches around you. If you are at a d2 school, a bad d1 coach, can be a nightmare for a d2 school. Or a good d2 coach in your area can also make it difficult.

I’m sure that’s true as well, but snewell is a very good coach, and Iowa is a pretty good team. That’s just the example from a couple seasons ago. I’ve lost guys to other teams from the Big 10, the Big 12, the Big East, and the SEC too the past dozen seasons or so.

Smith, Little East (D3) has gotten to be a very difficult conference for recruiting over the past 10 seasons on so. There are a handful of D2 schools/coaches that seem to be targeting the same D1 pull downs that we’ve been going after season after season.

Posted by Arfy on 1/5/2021 7:55:00 PM (view original):
I would say that recruiting doesn't really depend on the location as much as the other coaches around you. If you are at a d2 school, a bad d1 coach, can be a nightmare for a d2 school. Or a good d2 coach in your area can also make it difficult.

Yes, this.

Shoe is my very successful neighbor 240 miles south making my life difficult. Beachhouse is less than 200 miles away making my life difficult.

Giveupyet is 270 miles away. He makes my life difficult. And then did I mention Adjacent1 is a little too adjacent for my comfort zone?... his school is a 5K away.

I wonder if they need a new bball coach in Fiji!

Posted by craigaltonw on 1/6/2021 1:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Arfy on 1/5/2021 7:55:00 PM (view original):
I would say that recruiting doesn't really depend on the location as much as the other coaches around you. If you are at a d2 school, a bad d1 coach, can be a nightmare for a d2 school. Or a good d2 coach in your area can also make it difficult.

Yes, this.

Shoe is my very successful neighbor 240 miles south making my life difficult. Beachhouse is less than 200 miles away making my life difficult.

Giveupyet is 270 miles away. He makes my life difficult. And then did I mention Adjacent1 is a little too adjacent for my comfort zone?... his school is a 5K away.

I wonder if they need a new bball coach in Fiji!

Your big problem here is sitting on the doorstep of the strongest conference in the world, like you say. You’re not getting the benefits of SOS and seeding, but you still have to compete for local talent, or like Beach says, get creative.

But in terms of D2/3 recruiting, I really can’t stress enough to folks how important it is to pay attention to what things look like at the level just above you, because those are the teams who come calling on your primary targets. (Like when Tennessee and K State came for Robert Williams last season). I don’t consciously avoid battles with conference mates - maybe they do, I don’t know - but I don’t end up in a lot of them, because at lower levels the recruiting game is so much about finding the best guys who fall through the cracks. The fun (and challenging) thing about an active world like Knight, with 133 D1 coaches and 104 D2 coaches, is that you have to stay on your toes. The teams above you are losing battles or adjusting early and moving down.

Posted by shoe3 on 1/6/2021 10:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by craigaltonw on 1/6/2021 1:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Arfy on 1/5/2021 7:55:00 PM (view original):
I would say that recruiting doesn't really depend on the location as much as the other coaches around you. If you are at a d2 school, a bad d1 coach, can be a nightmare for a d2 school. Or a good d2 coach in your area can also make it difficult.

Yes, this.

Shoe is my very successful neighbor 240 miles south making my life difficult. Beachhouse is less than 200 miles away making my life difficult.

Giveupyet is 270 miles away. He makes my life difficult. And then did I mention Adjacent1 is a little too adjacent for my comfort zone?... his school is a 5K away.

I wonder if they need a new bball coach in Fiji!

Your big problem here is sitting on the doorstep of the strongest conference in the world, like you say. You’re not getting the benefits of SOS and seeding, but you still have to compete for local talent, or like Beach says, get creative.

But in terms of D2/3 recruiting, I really can’t stress enough to folks how important it is to pay attention to what things look like at the level just above you, because those are the teams who come calling on your primary targets. (Like when Tennessee and K State came for Robert Williams last season). I don’t consciously avoid battles with conference mates - maybe they do, I don’t know - but I don’t end up in a lot of them, because at lower levels the recruiting game is so much about finding the best guys who fall through the cracks. The fun (and challenging) thing about an active world like Knight, with 133 D1 coaches and 104 D2 coaches, is that you have to stay on your toes. The teams above you are losing battles or adjusting early and moving down.

K State. Grrrr. It happened again this season on another dude.

When you say pay attention to what things look
like just above me, what more do you suggest doing besides looking at the open number of scholarships and moving on if D1 stakes claim... not spending budget unnecessarily?

When they come in, yeah, I look to see what they’re coming in with. Scholarships, if they’ve signed anyone (and if so, whether they had to battle), what their preference profile will look like. It’s not always just about the division difference. Against low D1, and even lower level power conference schools, when I’m at a high D2 school, I’m often fairly comfortable battling, as long as it’s for late signing recruits, where I know we’ll be on equal footing when they’re making their decision. If they come in late, it means they haven’t prioritized the guy. I’m likely to have an AP advantage, and I *might* be able to outspend them on visits if they’ve already battled and lost, or have visits planned elsewhere. I do sometimes spend visits on early session guys after D1s come in (I did this year) but usually only when I’m confident that they won’t have the juice to get past moderate against the effort I’m willing to put in.

More broadly, I think it’s good to have a general sense of where the power is, and what’s happening in D1 recruiting. We get kind of myopic and focused on what’s right in front of us, and that can leave us open and flat-footed when these guys come barging in on us. I always at least try to stay aware of where the sims are in the adjacent power conferences (not many in Knight), and the strongest regional mid major and smaller conference programs.