I've read lots of HBD forum posts over the last 3+ years. Lots of unique opinions on this topic, but the opinions are typically found under various other subjects where the user(s) went off on a tangent. I figured I'd create a subject on it and see if anyone is interested in discussion.

Some folks feel that if you pay your $20-$25 to play, you can run your team how ever you want. Others think that as long as you're following the rules of HBD and any private World rules, all is fair. What say you?

You may need to do some research, you may need some trial and error, but for enjoyment of the game it's best to get yourself in to a world, or worlds, with like-minded owners. No matter what the "way" is, you need to be in agreement, lest there be drama.

If you join a private world, you do so accepting the rules that private world puts forth. That is the perk private worlds hold. There are plenty of private worlds and if you don't like a certain rule, you can find a private world without that rule. The rules set forth in those private worlds generally have been voted on by the ownership collective at some point.

When you have a world full of quality owners who know how to build a franchise within the fair play guidelines you don't need extra rules. Most private world rules are nothing but limits on this, limits on that, can't do this, must do that, etc. Rules that take all the fun out of creatively building a team. There are private worlds with no rules (except the fair play guidelines) that have little drama or problems. I know cause I am commissioner of one of them.

For me, most of the Worlds in which I participate are fine. However, once a World isn't fine, it is frustrating because I have usually been there a while and have given the benefit of the doubt to some of the behavior in the World because the hope was that it was a one-off situation or a situation that happens every so often. It can take up to several seasons to determine if the behavior is a trend as opposed to just a one-off or "every now and then" type of situation.

I'm in a World now where I have had a few LCS berths and a WS berth and have won 100+ games on multiple occasions, but it seems like every single season there are three owners that are hunting to fleece people. One owner is constantly sending out lopsided trade offers and I asked around and have found that he isn't just sending them to me. I can usually just ignore this guy and it is no big deal, but some of his lopsided trades get accepted and I have to comment on World Chat to get them vetoed. Another one of the owners even said to me in trade chat that, "Man, it's tough trading with somebody who knows what he's doing." This tells me he is hunting for the fleece. To me, this is the wrong way to do it. If you rely on other franchises to make your team relevant, then you are relying on suckers in the world and if there are that many suckers in the World, the World probably isn't a very good World. Also, if you are fleecing new/inexperienced owners, you are doing a disservice to the World and the long term health of the game.

We have had at least two trade vetos involving the commish in the last four or five seasons and several other trades that should have been vetoed involving him or the other two owners. If I were a more stoic person, I could likely ignore these moves, continue building the franchise the way I see fit, but I have a hard time just ignoring the trades that go through every single season. I am also tired of being one of only a few owners that are posting on World Chat about the trades to try to get them vetoed before it's too late. I am struggling with my decision to stay or go after this season. I have a great farm, a few recent really good call ups making the minimum and all of my guys that have helped my franchise be successful at the MLB level are still under 30. Also, I know as soon as I leave, the franchise that I worked so hard on and the players that I have developed will likely be pillaged within three seasons after my departure and odds are that all of the best players will end up on one of the three teams referenced above.

I don't want to be the Dbag idealist HBD owner that tells others how to run their team. However, I also don't want to consistently be at a competitive disadvantage.

Outside of the unbalanced/lopsided/fleece trades, the commish does a good job on enforcing MWRs and filling the World so it is a tough call for me.

tlowster, that's exactly the point I found myself in with one of my teams. I keep sticking with it because I like the team I built. Only reason I'm still in the world. If I actually followed the rule I set out above, I'd leave today. LOL

Instead of framing it as "the right way", look at it as "what do I want to get out of this game?"

If winning is your first priority - find a cutthroat world. (Or be a dick and find a casual world with an inattentive commish that you can burn down with lopsided trades)

If having fun and learning the nuances of the game is your first priority, find a commish that understands that healthy worlds use trades for win/win situations, not as a tool to extract value from a disparity in owner skill levels.

Posted by brianplath on 4/17/2021 11:38:00 AM (view original):
Instead of framing it as "the right way", look at it as "what do I want to get out of this game?"

If winning is your first priority - find a cutthroat world. (Or be a dick and find a casual world with an inattentive commish that you can burn down with lopsided trades)

If having fun and learning the nuances of the game is your first priority, find a commish that understands that healthy worlds use trades for win/win situations, not as a tool to extract value from a disparity in owner skill levels.

That's a great point.

The first World I ever joined was Gleeman World. I think it was you that built an absolute power house there, but ended up leaving before enjoying the fruits of your labor. If I recall correctly, the reason you left was similar to the reasons that I am contemplating leaving the above referenced World.

So, I really appreciate your advice and your reminder that it is okay to leave if I am disenjoying the behavior in the World.

On a side note, that team you built in Gleeman (Now Weaver) was really good for about ten seasons after you left. The new owner was a decent owner that didn't trade any of the talent that you acquired and was able to compete with the big boys for several seasons.

Posted by dyoungquist on 4/16/2021 9:30:00 PM (view original):
When you have a world full of quality owners who know how to build a franchise within the fair play guidelines you don't need extra rules. Most private world rules are nothing but limits on this, limits on that, can't do this, must do that, etc. Rules that take all the fun out of creatively building a team. There are private worlds with no rules (except the fair play guidelines) that have little drama or problems. I know cause I am commissioner of one of them.

+1

Posted by tlowster on 4/17/2021 11:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by brianplath on 4/17/2021 11:38:00 AM (view original):
Instead of framing it as "the right way", look at it as "what do I want to get out of this game?"

If winning is your first priority - find a cutthroat world. (Or be a dick and find a casual world with an inattentive commish that you can burn down with lopsided trades)

If having fun and learning the nuances of the game is your first priority, find a commish that understands that healthy worlds use trades for win/win situations, not as a tool to extract value from a disparity in owner skill levels.

That's a great point.

The first World I ever joined was Gleeman World. I think it was you that built an absolute power house there, but ended up leaving before enjoying the fruits of your labor. If I recall correctly, the reason you left was similar to the reasons that I am contemplating leaving the above referenced World.

So, I really appreciate your advice and your reminder that it is okay to leave if I am disenjoying the behavior in the World.

On a side note, that team you built in Gleeman (Now Weaver) was really good for about ten seasons after you left. The new owner was a decent owner that didn't trade any of the talent that you acquired and was able to compete with the big boys for several seasons.

Yeah, Gleeman's worlds were a perfect example. I left when I realized I couldn't out draft/IFA the fleece-a-newb strategy. Hopefully they're better now. It was a good learning experience though.

Don't let your sunk costs/time get in the way of having fun. It's easier finding a new league than trying to change one you're already in.

Posted by bjschumacher on 4/17/2021 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dyoungquist on 4/16/2021 9:30:00 PM (view original):
When you have a world full of quality owners who know how to build a franchise within the fair play guidelines you don't need extra rules. Most private world rules are nothing but limits on this, limits on that, can't do this, must do that, etc. Rules that take all the fun out of creatively building a team. There are private worlds with no rules (except the fair play guidelines) that have little drama or problems. I know cause I am commissioner of one of them.

+1

How do you get around the gray area in fair play guidelines? My guess would be to simply lay down the law as the commish. However, I am curious how you deal with trades that "clearly benefit one team"? I think the word "clearly" is what makes it such a tough call. If one owner continues to get the better end of every deal he is in, I have no issue with that, I just gotta tip my cap, but if one owner keeps fleecing new owners or inexperienced owners or even tenured owners that just aren't very good, I think there is a real issue there that needs to be addressed.

Posted by tlowster on 4/28/2021 3:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bjschumacher on 4/17/2021 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dyoungquist on 4/16/2021 9:30:00 PM (view original):
When you have a world full of quality owners who know how to build a franchise within the fair play guidelines you don't need extra rules. Most private world rules are nothing but limits on this, limits on that, can't do this, must do that, etc. Rules that take all the fun out of creatively building a team. There are private worlds with no rules (except the fair play guidelines) that have little drama or problems. I know cause I am commissioner of one of them.

+1

How do you get around the gray area in fair play guidelines? My guess would be to simply lay down the law as the commish. However, I am curious how you deal with trades that "clearly benefit one team"? I think the word "clearly" is what makes it such a tough call. If one owner continues to get the better end of every deal he is in, I have no issue with that, I just gotta tip my cap, but if one owner keeps fleecing new owners or inexperienced owners or even tenured owners that just aren't very good, I think there is a real issue there that needs to be addressed.

Rest of the league needs to wise up and make more competitive offers for the players that he is targeting. I know its hard to know specifically who an owner is targeting, but sometimes its just a matter of touching base with owners that are selling.

Too me its a market inefficiency, no different than walking into a league and realizing that hardly anyone drops money in the IFA market or in HS scouting.

Another aspect to consider is that some of these predatory owners invest highly in adv scouting, (at least the one in my league does). That made me think that philosophically its no different than trying to be mad at a guy that invest highly in a different form of scouting and naturally getting a good player as a result of it. The best way i have found to combat it, and admittedly its still only been about a season or two, is to create bidding wars for players that he might be targeting or at least threaten to be a willing bidder on those targets. That hopefully drives up the price far enough that its not viable for the predatory owner to pursue, or at least forces him to dole out real value in exchange for their prize.