Posted by wylie715 on 4/28/2021 12:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 4/28/2021 11:36:00 AM (view original):
IF it's a Jewish State then I've gotta conclude other "belief" structures are "minorities", no? I admit I'm ignorant as to the verbiage of the Israeli Constitution but I do know OURS and ours has specific language to try and prohibit a "National" religion. Thus, legally, we are NOT a Christian Nation. We've eliminated that argument from our system legally......... no more fights over WHO is Christian and who ain't. (Ask any Mormon!).

Do they have legal Constitutional protections for the Hare Krishna(s) (or whoever) in Israel?
And IF they do, it's NOT a Jewish State.

well, it does say "in God we trust" on our money. Seems like a weird thing to put on your money if you are a non-religious nation.

...yes, which is why it should be removed

Posted by dino27 on 4/28/2021 12:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/28/2021 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bruceleefan on 4/28/2021 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Seems absurd to have to even mention this in this discussion but based on many responses it definitely is warranted.

"Jewish" is both a religion AND an ethnicity.
Sammy Davis Jr. was Jewish but not Jewish.

The persecution of the Jews comes from those who are opposed to the ethnicity and not the religion.

Yes they are intimately linked, but they are also two entirely differently things.

True, actually. I have probably been conflating the two too much in this conversation. To be clear, I am ethnically Jewish, not religiously Jewish. My great grandmother escaped the Holocaust by fleeing Hungary.

But then the idea of it being a "Jewish state" is even worse because you're talking about preserving an ethnic majority, which is the dictionary definition of an ethnostate.

Omg. You are not part of the Jewish people.
you are not Jewish if you accept Jesus as God.
you only have Jewish ancestry.
if you have Jewish ancestry and are atheist but don’t accept false gods but consider your a part of the Jewish people and consider Israel your eternal homeland even with some disagreements then you are Jewish.
you - my friend are not Jewish even if you eat a bagel once in a while.
you have abandoned the Jewish people.
and you don’t even want to say what you believe.
I thought you were Lutheran.

I'm glad that you're the ruler of who gets to be Jewish and who doesn't. You can tell my family members who died in the Holocaust that their lineage has nothing to do with their ethnicity.

The left does not like Israel (at least, increasingly, many on the left...cough Squad cough) because Israel is a successful, well-run country in a region with very few such countries. The left, for psychological reasons, always has to identify with the underdog and so, naturally, supports Palestine who they view as the victim and castigate Israel as the aggressor. The actual facts of the matter, for those interested in investigating from a historical perspective, tell a very different story.

Any Israel-hating lefty (aka closeted anti-semite) would much rather live in Israel than Palestine if given the choice (even if they do not know that yet).

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 4/28/2021 1:58:00 PM (view original):
The left does not like Israel (at least, increasingly, many on the left...cough Squad cough) because Israel is a successful, well-run country in a region with very few such countries. The left, for psychological reasons, always has to identify with the underdog and so, naturally, supports Palestine who they view as the victim and castigate Israel as the aggressor. The actual facts of the matter, for those interested in investigating from a historical perspective, tell a very different story.

Any Israel-hating lefty (aka closeted anti-semite) would much rather live in Israel than Palestine if given the choice (even if they do not know that yet).

I agree.

Posted by tangplay on 4/28/2021 1:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dino27 on 4/28/2021 12:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/28/2021 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bruceleefan on 4/28/2021 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Seems absurd to have to even mention this in this discussion but based on many responses it definitely is warranted.

"Jewish" is both a religion AND an ethnicity.
Sammy Davis Jr. was Jewish but not Jewish.

The persecution of the Jews comes from those who are opposed to the ethnicity and not the religion.

Yes they are intimately linked, but they are also two entirely differently things.

True, actually. I have probably been conflating the two too much in this conversation. To be clear, I am ethnically Jewish, not religiously Jewish. My great grandmother escaped the Holocaust by fleeing Hungary.

But then the idea of it being a "Jewish state" is even worse because you're talking about preserving an ethnic majority, which is the dictionary definition of an ethnostate.

Omg. You are not part of the Jewish people.
you are not Jewish if you accept Jesus as God.
you only have Jewish ancestry.
if you have Jewish ancestry and are atheist but don’t accept false gods but consider your a part of the Jewish people and consider Israel your eternal homeland even with some disagreements then you are Jewish.
you - my friend are not Jewish even if you eat a bagel once in a while.
you have abandoned the Jewish people.
and you don’t even want to say what you believe.
I thought you were Lutheran.

I'm glad that you're the ruler of who gets to be Jewish and who doesn't. You can tell my family members who died in the Holocaust that their lineage has nothing to do with their ethnicity.

I don’t know anything about them.
I know about you.
you were born as a Mennonite and you are Mennonite
which is absolutely fine.
but you are not Jewish by Jewish rules and standards which I know.
if you want to be Jewish then convert and become a self hating Jew.

Do you know the difference between apartheid and self imposed exile.
the Palestinians have a state but the world won’t recognize them as a true country until they accept borders and Israel and stop making war and create a competent government but they are too brain damaged to do anything.
they have warring factions that hate each other
no mandate and refuse to stop demanding that millions of people be allowed to March into Israel proper and become citizens.

im sorry but boo hoo Palestinians.

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 4/28/2021 1:58:00 PM (view original):
The left does not like Israel (at least, increasingly, many on the left...cough Squad cough) because Israel is a successful, well-run country in a region with very few such countries. The left, for psychological reasons, always has to identify with the underdog and so, naturally, supports Palestine who they view as the victim and castigate Israel as the aggressor. The actual facts of the matter, for those interested in investigating from a historical perspective, tell a very different story.

Any Israel-hating lefty (aka closeted anti-semite) would much rather live in Israel than Palestine if given the choice (even if they do not know that yet).

Yes, good understanding of my arguments, Neocon. The only reason anyone would have a problem with Israel is because they are successful. And also because I'm a self-hating anti-semite.

Yes, I would rather live in Israel. That's not contradictory to anything else I've said.

Posted by dino27 on 4/28/2021 2:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/28/2021 1:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dino27 on 4/28/2021 12:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/28/2021 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bruceleefan on 4/28/2021 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Seems absurd to have to even mention this in this discussion but based on many responses it definitely is warranted.

"Jewish" is both a religion AND an ethnicity.
Sammy Davis Jr. was Jewish but not Jewish.

The persecution of the Jews comes from those who are opposed to the ethnicity and not the religion.

Yes they are intimately linked, but they are also two entirely differently things.

True, actually. I have probably been conflating the two too much in this conversation. To be clear, I am ethnically Jewish, not religiously Jewish. My great grandmother escaped the Holocaust by fleeing Hungary.

But then the idea of it being a "Jewish state" is even worse because you're talking about preserving an ethnic majority, which is the dictionary definition of an ethnostate.

Omg. You are not part of the Jewish people.
you are not Jewish if you accept Jesus as God.
you only have Jewish ancestry.
if you have Jewish ancestry and are atheist but don’t accept false gods but consider your a part of the Jewish people and consider Israel your eternal homeland even with some disagreements then you are Jewish.
you - my friend are not Jewish even if you eat a bagel once in a while.
you have abandoned the Jewish people.
and you don’t even want to say what you believe.
I thought you were Lutheran.

I'm glad that you're the ruler of who gets to be Jewish and who doesn't. You can tell my family members who died in the Holocaust that their lineage has nothing to do with their ethnicity.

I don’t know anything about them.
I know about you.
you were born as a Mennonite and you are Mennonite
which is absolutely fine.
but you are not Jewish by Jewish rules and standards which I know.
if you want to be Jewish then convert and become a self hating Jew.

So Jewish ethnicity is completely irrelevant?

You just agreed with a post arguing that ethnicity is more relevant to this discussion, but now you've completely backed off of that point?

Posted by dino27 on 4/28/2021 3:28:00 PM (view original):
Do you know the difference between apartheid and self imposed exile.
the Palestinians have a state but the world won’t recognize them as a true country until they accept borders and Israel and stop making war and create a competent government but they are too brain damaged to do anything.
they have warring factions that hate each other
no mandate and refuse to stop demanding that millions of people be allowed to March into Israel proper and become citizens.

im sorry but boo hoo Palestinians.

You're just pro-ethnostate. Why not become a white nationalist? You could use all the same arguments.

Somehow that doesn’t sound like it tethers intelligent thought the way that when I said that about you it sure did.
you are a fraud and a fink and a poser and you can’t figure out if you are a boy or a girl.

Posted by dino27 on 4/28/2021 12:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 4/28/2021 12:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dino27 on 4/28/2021 12:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/28/2021 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bruceleefan on 4/28/2021 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Seems absurd to have to even mention this in this discussion but based on many responses it definitely is warranted.

"Jewish" is both a religion AND an ethnicity.
Sammy Davis Jr. was Jewish but not Jewish.

The persecution of the Jews comes from those who are opposed to the ethnicity and not the religion.

Yes they are intimately linked, but they are also two entirely differently things.

True, actually. I have probably been conflating the two too much in this conversation. To be clear, I am ethnically Jewish, not religiously Jewish. My great grandmother escaped the Holocaust by fleeing Hungary.

But then the idea of it being a "Jewish state" is even worse because you're talking about preserving an ethnic majority, which is the dictionary definition of an ethnostate.

Omg. You are not part of the Jewish people.
you are not Jewish if you accept Jesus as God.
you only have Jewish ancestry.
if you have Jewish ancestry and are atheist but don’t accept false gods but consider your a part of the Jewish people and consider Israel your eternal homeland even with some disagreements then you are Jewish.
you - my friend are not Jewish even if you eat a bagel once in a while.
you have abandoned the Jewish people.
and you don’t even want to say what you believe.
I thought you were Lutheran.

Dino, I don't think you (or anyone else) have the right to tell tang what he is or isn't. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but how one identifies oneself is his/her/their business.

He has every right to be deluded but he is not Jewish by Jewish law or by prevailing Jewish standards.
he can call himself green.
if he thinks it that is his business .
he can call himself Jewish and I can call myself Korean but I’m not Korean.

well, by Jewish law, my kids are not Jewish because their mother isn't. They still refer to themselves as Jewish. Are they fake Jews too. In my opinion, tang has just as much right to call himself Jewish as someone like cccp, who admits he does not practice the religion, but says he is Jewish by culture. So, did you have a problem with that guy ( I don't remember his username) who wished to be identified as they/them instead of him. By your argument, you would tell him he has a *****, therefore he is a him.
Personally, I don't really care what tang calls himself, or what you call him. I just don't think you, or I (or anyone) should be telling someone what they are or aren't.
Also, if you want to identify as Korean, go for it. I have no idea what you look like, but I'm guessing anyone could look at you and know that you are not Korean by birth.

I just spent about an hour researching the Mennonite church. I am shocked. I had no idea there was such a schism. I see the LCM, which is the majority of the church and the ones I know and grew up with, has left the MCC over homosexuality and politics.

ANY time you spend time researching some Religion/Belief structure...........you find bickering, schisms, disagreements leading to arguments, leading to violence with splits amongst the group of believers about as common as "cousins" amongst Mormons.

It seems inherent. Believe strongly in something and conclude everybody else is worshiping the devil.

It's called FEAR!

THAT REMINDS ME . . .