A question that I haven't seen asked yet (unless I missed it):

If a coach gets fired from a tier "x" job, will there be a waiting period before he or she can apply to another job at that tier?

For instance, if you get fired from Duke, can you immediately apply for an opening at Kentucky because their coach also got fired?

If job applications look at 10 seasons of experience (didnt they once?) and if firing looks at 4 seasons, then a coach who goes to the final four twice but then cant get out of the second round over four seasons - would seem that one could be fired and then qualify for apx as good a job - even the same job????

It's been 20 years since MARYLAND has done anything. Why are they in the upper tier?

cause baseline prestige reflects the world in around 2002 when the game was initially designed

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 11:40:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 11:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 9:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 3:48:00 AM (view original):
Make it so that the firing clock does not start until the 3rd season when a coach takes a new job. Make the time frame 5 seasons instead of 4. Simple and uncomplicated.

I am going to look at the Wooden World in D1 in which I am currently playing with the rules I suggested above that new coaches when they are first hired at a school get 7 seasons to meet the firing standards and the others get 5 seasons: This is if the rules had been in place and the possible firings were after the last completed season.

Of the 11 schools in the highest tier: Only the coach at North Carolina would have been fired. UNC has not had a NT bid in the last 9 seasons. Enough said.

Of the 18 schools in the second tier: 4 coaches would have been fired: Tennessee--15 seasons there for that coach with 0 NT appearances. Virginia--last 13 seasons only 2 NT bids and lost in 1st round both times. Boston College: the coach has been there for 7 seasons with only 1 NT bid (first season) and lost that first round game. Stanford--the closest of all the above to meeting the criteria. The last 5 seasons had 3 NT bids but never advanced to second round. Had 3 2nd round appearances in the 3 seasons preceding the last 5 but hey--you have to draw the line somewhere.

Of the 42 schools in the third tier: 2 coaches would have been fired. Oklahoma St. and Mississippi St.

So under my proposal which is more lenient than what adlorenz put out---7 coaches would have been fired and most of those would have been well deserved. I saw in a separate post that Benis checked a few worlds under the proposal that adlorenz put out that many more coaches would be fired under
that proposal which does not take account of how hard it is to take over a team in D1 and get results right away.

Should have been 8 out of 71. I missed UConn in Tier 1 in Wooden. Working on Allen world right now.

In Allen world there would have been 5 total coaches fired from the list of 71 going back currently from this season that is two days from being done.
This is using my proposal of 5 seasons instead of the 4 for the achievement parameters set out by adlorenz. Also giving a coach two seasons to get settled before the firing clock starts up in his 3rd season--so 7 seasons for new coaches to achieve the performance parameters.

Tier 1: Kentucky
Tier 2: Tennessee, Purdue, NC State.
Tier 3: Vanderbilt

yeah this is much better. the real disaster is a lack of a grace period for new coaches

So I know everyone seems to be against there being any kind of randomizer in it. But consider the very likely situation where a coach knows for sure he/she will be fired at the end of a season if they don't make the S16 that season, and by the time recruiting rolls around, they know the chances of reaching the S16 are zilch. Is there any incentive at all for that coach to recruit, knowing they will be fired? Wouldn't it be better that the worse they have been, the more likely the firing (but still an chance they don't get fired), and a coach who has made the 2nd round, 2nd round, 2nd round, and now has a losing record due to EEs etc. still has maybe a 50-50, or even 40-60 chance of being fired, to have some incentive to keep trying to win and keep recruiting for the team? Just a thought.

go for it adlorenz ! let's see what happens..we've got 5 mos to adjust

Posted by skinndogg on 5/28/2021 2:24:00 PM (view original):
It's been 20 years since MARYLAND has done anything. Why are they in the upper tier?

Exactly, lots of discussion about the firing process, little to no discussion of the questionable rankings.

**IF THIS HAPPENS**

In a 50 year sample size starting in 2022.....Teams like UNCW and UNCG will have more titles than teams like Duke and UNC

Let that sink in...

There aren't a ton of people willing to pay money to win a title with the Seahawks rather than the Blue Devils. This simply won't improve upon human user numbers, which is what the goal should be.

Posted by mattstarks on 5/28/2021 10:18:00 PM (view original):
**IF THIS HAPPENS**

In a 50 year sample size starting in 2022.....Teams like UNCW and UNCG will have more titles than teams like Duke and UNC

Let that sink in...

There aren't a ton of people willing to pay money to win a title with the Seahawks rather than the Blue Devils. This simply won't improve upon human user numbers, which is what the goal should be.

what makes you say this, matt?

I agree about 1/3 of the tier 1 programs will get really run-down, but the other 2/3 should be as strong as ever

Having never won a National championship and never having made a Sweet Sixteen in Division 1, but having been fired many many many years ago, I only have one question.

After being fired do you have to go down to Division 2 or 3 or can you still be hired in Division 1 but just not at a school in one of the top 3 tiers?

Posted by cubcub113 on 5/28/2021 10:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mattstarks on 5/28/2021 10:18:00 PM (view original):
**IF THIS HAPPENS**

In a 50 year sample size starting in 2022.....Teams like UNCW and UNCG will have more titles than teams like Duke and UNC

Let that sink in...

There aren't a ton of people willing to pay money to win a title with the Seahawks rather than the Blue Devils. This simply won't improve upon human user numbers, which is what the goal should be.

what makes you say this, matt?

I agree about 1/3 of the tier 1 programs will get really run-down, but the other 2/3 should be as strong as ever

I think that once a top tier program is made available due to a firing, it won't be as appealing for another coach to apply because there is a chance they could be fired in four seasons. If that continues to happen over time, the top coaches would be more inclined to build "super conferences" in mid major conferences to keep it fun and competitive. Once that happened, it would essentially reverse the appeal of big six conferences compared to mid majors. Would a coach rather coach at UNC in a conference with less that 50% humans (in which said humans would likely be coaching the lower tier programs) or be in a conference like the MEAC in Tark??

Granted, I think it would take a while for this to happen, but I think there would be a chance for that scenario to be very prevalent and I don't think that is what the game was originally intended to be.

Posted by cubcub113 on 5/28/2021 10:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mattstarks on 5/28/2021 10:18:00 PM (view original):
**IF THIS HAPPENS**

In a 50 year sample size starting in 2022.....Teams like UNCW and UNCG will have more titles than teams like Duke and UNC

Let that sink in...

There aren't a ton of people willing to pay money to win a title with the Seahawks rather than the Blue Devils. This simply won't improve upon human user numbers, which is what the goal should be.

what makes you say this, matt?

I agree about 1/3 of the tier 1 programs will get really run-down, but the other 2/3 should be as strong as ever

I think that once a top tier program is made available due to a firing, it won't be as appealing for another coach to apply because there is a chance they could be fired in four seasons. If that continues to happen over time, the top coaches would be more inclined to build "super conferences" in mid major conferences to keep it fun and competitive. Once that happened, it would essentially reverse the appeal of big six conferences compared to mid majors. Would a coach rather coach at UNC in a conference with less that 50% humans (in which said humans would likely be coaching the lower tier programs) or be in a conference like the MEAC in Tark??

Granted, I think it would take a while for this to happen, but I think there would be a chance for that scenario to be very prevalent and I don't think that is what the game was originally intended to be.

i'd much rather win a title at UNCW than Duke. #1 it's a more respectable program. but #2 the idea of the game isn't to seek the easiest path to glory, is it? top tier teams have such an advantage that these rules aren't going to hurt many coaches. why reward mediocrity? if you can't meet the needs to keep the elite job, move over and let the next guy try. in real life, the best coaches are at the best programs. shouldn't the best coaches here coach the best programs? or does everyone need a trophy that's the same size as the next guy's???

Posted by mattstarks on 5/28/2021 11:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 5/28/2021 10:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mattstarks on 5/28/2021 10:18:00 PM (view original):
**IF THIS HAPPENS**

In a 50 year sample size starting in 2022.....Teams like UNCW and UNCG will have more titles than teams like Duke and UNC

Let that sink in...

There aren't a ton of people willing to pay money to win a title with the Seahawks rather than the Blue Devils. This simply won't improve upon human user numbers, which is what the goal should be.

what makes you say this, matt?

I agree about 1/3 of the tier 1 programs will get really run-down, but the other 2/3 should be as strong as ever

I think that once a top tier program is made available due to a firing, it won't be as appealing for another coach to apply because there is a chance they could be fired in four seasons. If that continues to happen over time, the top coaches would be more inclined to build "super conferences" in mid major conferences to keep it fun and competitive. Once that happened, it would essentially reverse the appeal of big six conferences compared to mid majors. Would a coach rather coach at UNC in a conference with less that 50% humans (in which said humans would likely be coaching the lower tier programs) or be in a conference like the MEAC in Tark??

Granted, I think it would take a while for this to happen, but I think there would be a chance for that scenario to be very prevalent and I don't think that is what the game was originally intended to be.

I'd call this worst case scenario, but it's an interesting long-term consequence, for sure. I do think, in a much more immediate way, the tier 1 jobs will be Sim more often than not. With recruiting dice rolls largely based on luck, random NT upsets, and a small 4-year window, it will be tough for a lot of people to justify taking the risk; why leave an established and far less stressful tier 3 job for a tier 1 job?

Some will take on the challenge, I'm sure. But as time goes on, fewer and fewer people will elect to bang their head against the wall.