Dunkonyou's proposal is much closer to where this should be. It's a huge problem long term for the game if coaches are de-incentivized from taking on big 6 rebuilds because they only have 4 seasons, whereas big 6 programs that have been sim ai for a while are often TERRIBLE and need quite a bit of time to make progress.

A total train wreck can take 7-8 seasons to make the NT.
1-2 seasons just to balance the roster or cut dead weight etc.
Then 4 seasons just to get your 1st recruits to be seniors. Then remember, those are guys you could only recruit as a C/C+ prestige school.
So another 2-3 seasons to get the prestige up to where you can actually get guys that can make the NT.

What Admin needs to understand is a Tier 1 school with a C+ prestige is no better than a Metro Conference school with a C+ prestige. It takes time and work to get them back where they are supposed to be.

Posted by plague on 5/28/2021 10:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rds_lsu on 5/27/2021 10:21:00 PM (view original):
So are we going to end up with SIM coached Elite teams after all the qualified coaches get fired and there are no qualified replacements? Seems like a good business model...

This just doesn't seem like a desirable outcome. How many coaches will just leave the game after getting randomly fired? I'm not opposed to firings but they should be reserved for the outliers and abandoned ships.

I just made this comment in my conference standings. Its not that I think the new rules are bad, I just like looking at the history of my team and I really have no desire to start over at another school.

With these rules I can't picture ever taking on a rebuild. These rules might be realistic, but in real life as a head coach you are getting a salary and finding a coach for any program would not be a problem. However are you as a coach willing to pay for 4 seasons if you are very likely to get fired after those 4 seasons? No way would I take on a tier 1 school if that school was in full rebuild mode.

Back in the prehistoric days of HD the argument of what was more like real life and what actually made for a fun game came up a lot. While increased firings would certainly be more like real life, I don't believe they would make for an improved user experience. I fully support firings but am of the opinion that they should be relatively rare outside of abandoned ship situations. Are the coaches at the Top 50 schools in each world really that stagnant? Are users leaving the game b/c they can't get a shot to coach Duke? Is that number higher than the natural attrition at the Top schools? If there is really a high demand for users to get a chance at top schools then maybe open up a new world. If there isn't actually enough demand for a new world then WIS should seriously consider the impacts of running off some of the current supply of coaches.

I would have been fired from Syracuse rather quickly (7 seasons) — I went on to lead cbg’s 5, 10, and 20 year dynasty lists and win 3 titles in the next 20 years. Your first years taking over most schools will be rocky, it’s how this game works.

I understand where adlorenz is coming from and I am certainly a proponent of more firings, but these requirements are too high.

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 11:42:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/28/2021 11:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 10:55:00 AM (view original):
Sorry Benis--didn't mean for you to spend more time on this. I do appreciate the effort you put in that shows that the proposal they put out is way over the top as to what they are trying to accomplish. I think adlorenz really needed to see the stats you put out. And on a side note--my three ex-wives call me much worse than that lol. I just hope they re-consider the harshness of what they just laid out.

Hahaha no worries man, I like your idea.

I'm just the kind of person when I get something in my head, I can't let it go until I answer it. Curious nature of mine.

Also, I was pretty high last night when I did this so might wanna double check my work

In Allen world there would have been 5 total coaches fired from the list of 71 going back currently from this season that is two days from being done.
This is using my proposal of 5 seasons instead of the 4 for the achievement parameters set out by adlorenz. Also giving a coach two seasons to get settled before the firing clock starts up in his 3rd season--so 7 seasons for new coaches to achieve the performance parameters.

Tier 1: Kentucky
Tier 2: Tennessee, Purdue, NC State.
Tier 3: Vanderbilt

I do like this better as well. Having a longer window at first is crucial.

Posted by mullycj on 5/29/2021 12:01:00 PM (view original):
A total train wreck can take 7-8 seasons to make the NT.
1-2 seasons just to balance the roster or cut dead weight etc.
Then 4 seasons just to get your 1st recruits to be seniors. Then remember, those are guys you could only recruit as a C/C+ prestige school.
So another 2-3 seasons to get the prestige up to where you can actually get guys that can make the NT.

What Admin needs to understand is a Tier 1 school with a C+ prestige is no better than a Metro Conference school with a C+ prestige. It takes time and work to get them back where they are supposed to be.

It can often be harder to get to the solid B level if it’s a true doormat tier 1 program, because of how difficult your conference opponents are.

Posted by tkimble on 5/29/2021 9:01:00 PM (view original):
I would have been fired from Syracuse rather quickly (7 seasons) — I went on to lead cbg’s 5, 10, and 20 year dynasty lists and win 3 titles in the next 20 years. Your first years taking over most schools will be rocky, it’s how this game works.

I understand where adlorenz is coming from and I am certainly a proponent of more firings, but these requirements are too high.

Jim Boeheim would have been fired at Syracuse in 2008. Just 5 years after his 2003 championship.

Bumping so Adam can read this when he gets back from his Memorial weekend holiday.

wow.

wow again.

I'm not sure which assumption is worse:

the assumption that they did not run these numbers

or the assumption that they did run these numbers and they're ok with them.

wow.

I take it your data analysis is based on what the coaches accomplished back when they took over the school and not on current results? From a purely testing point of view the data from when they started would have the flaw of not accounting for losses of games and recruits to coaches that would have been fired before that season. I understand there is no perfect way to calculate what a rebuild would look like. What about where we are currently though?

What would the data look like for each tier in one day worlds if it started 4 months ago and we ended the four season cycle for the worlds with Smith's finishing in two days. Who would be fired, on the hot seat, and safe across the one day worlds?

More of an curiosity than anything and unfortunately to busy do the data myself.

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 6/4/2021 10:53:00 PM (view original):
I take it your data analysis is based on what the coaches accomplished back when they took over the school and not on current results? From a purely testing point of view the data from when they started would have the flaw of not accounting for losses of games and recruits to coaches that would have been fired before that season. I understand there is no perfect way to calculate what a rebuild would look like. What about where we are currently though?

What would the data look like for each tier in one day worlds if it started 4 months ago and we ended the four season cycle for the worlds with Smith's finishing in two days. Who would be fired, on the hot seat, and safe across the one day worlds?

More of an curiosity than anything and unfortunately to busy do the data myself.

Benis went back to when a coach was first hired. I just did the current situation. I talked to Adam and they are looking at data and they are still working on what the final plan will look like. They had already planned on a grace period. When they put out the announcement that there was going to be a firing process coming late in this year--they didn't put out all of the details they were working on. I was much relieved after talking to him. I certainly appreciate that they are trying to improve the game. The communication could have been better on this subject but overall the communication is much, much better than the last regime and the effort they are putting into these games is light years ahead of the past regime.

Posted by dunkonyou on 6/5/2021 6:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 6/4/2021 10:53:00 PM (view original):
I take it your data analysis is based on what the coaches accomplished back when they took over the school and not on current results? From a purely testing point of view the data from when they started would have the flaw of not accounting for losses of games and recruits to coaches that would have been fired before that season. I understand there is no perfect way to calculate what a rebuild would look like. What about where we are currently though?

What would the data look like for each tier in one day worlds if it started 4 months ago and we ended the four season cycle for the worlds with Smith's finishing in two days. Who would be fired, on the hot seat, and safe across the one day worlds?

More of an curiosity than anything and unfortunately to busy do the data myself.

Benis went back to when a coach was first hired. I just did the current situation. I talked to Adam and they are looking at data and they are still working on what the final plan will look like. They had already planned on a grace period. When they put out the announcement that there was going to be a firing process coming late in this year--they didn't put out all of the details they were working on. I was much relieved after talking to him. I certainly appreciate that they are trying to improve the game. The communication could have been better on this subject but overall the communication is much, much better than the last regime and the effort they are putting into these games is light years ahead of the past regime.

Figured that was the data used. Agree that communication is better. Has anyone done the data on what firings would look like based off each world/teams current situation?

Interested in knowing how it will actually play out since many are long term at those jobs. I would estimate the truth of a rebuild would be somewhere between Benis's data and the data from the last four seasons of current coaches in thoae positions. Benis's being the floor and last four seasons being ceiling. Impossible to know perfectly but a mean, median, and mode could be drawn as an idea. Sorry not a math or algorithm guy but recall some math principles from back in school. Where are my amazing math brains that can

1) get this ceiling and floor data for one day worlds 2) calculate a mean, mode, median for each school in the tiers

Made up examples. To meet criteria across the one day worlds UCLA has a mean of 1.4 seasona median of 2 and a mode of 2. While Oregon has a mean of 2.3, median 3 and mode 2.

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 6/5/2021 3:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dunkonyou on 6/5/2021 6:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 6/4/2021 10:53:00 PM (view original):
I take it your data analysis is based on what the coaches accomplished back when they took over the school and not on current results? From a purely testing point of view the data from when they started would have the flaw of not accounting for losses of games and recruits to coaches that would have been fired before that season. I understand there is no perfect way to calculate what a rebuild would look like. What about where we are currently though?

What would the data look like for each tier in one day worlds if it started 4 months ago and we ended the four season cycle for the worlds with Smith's finishing in two days. Who would be fired, on the hot seat, and safe across the one day worlds?

More of an curiosity than anything and unfortunately to busy do the data myself.

Benis went back to when a coach was first hired. I just did the current situation. I talked to Adam and they are looking at data and they are still working on what the final plan will look like. They had already planned on a grace period. When they put out the announcement that there was going to be a firing process coming late in this year--they didn't put out all of the details they were working on. I was much relieved after talking to him. I certainly appreciate that they are trying to improve the game. The communication could have been better on this subject but overall the communication is much, much better than the last regime and the effort they are putting into these games is light years ahead of the past regime.

Figured that was the data used. Agree that communication is better. Has anyone done the data on what firings would look like based off each world/teams current situation?

Interested in knowing how it will actually play out since many are long term at those jobs. I would estimate the truth of a rebuild would be somewhere between Benis's data and the data from the last four seasons of current coaches in thoae positions. Benis's being the floor and last four seasons being ceiling. Impossible to know perfectly but a mean, median, and mode could be drawn as an idea. Sorry not a math or algorithm guy but recall some math principles from back in school. Where are my amazing math brains that can

1) get this ceiling and floor data for one day worlds 2) calculate a mean, mode, median for each school in the tiers

Made up examples. To meet criteria across the one day worlds UCLA has a mean of 1.4 seasona median of 2 and a mode of 2. While Oregon has a mean of 2.3, median 3 and mode 2.

That would be tough to do right now because we don't know what the final parameters will be.

Maybe it’s best everyone chill and breathe and wait for more information.

Adam and his team have granted us several months before any criteria for firing goes into effect at all. He’s also listening to feedback and paying attention. Do you think he’s going to roll out a plan that completely ignores rebuilds of top programs? Give him a little more credit than a disregard for common sense.