Professor...

I think they will add in the Negro League stats here, to be included in a forthcoming rewrite. Doubtful much gets added here until that time. I would love to have the great seasons of Satchel Paige available...

I don't think Tarek omitted Negro League stats because he was a racist. He probably didn't have comprehensive stats at his disposal at the time. I could be wrong...as to what's gone on here since is a matter of negligence, not because the powers at be were racist. Again, I could be mistaken.

And baseball organizations are searching for more game stats all the time.

Posted by dino27 on 6/21/2021 3:37:00 PM (view original):
And baseball organizations are searching for more game stats all the time.

If anything, this could be the best argument against adding these players too quickly. After all, there is virtually no change to the documented historical statistics of all the other players in the sim. As much as I'd love to see these players added ASAP and believe they absolutely belong, I feel as if the record is going to be in flux for a while as new research adds to the statistics currently available. And new games added with some of these limited seasons could alter the numbers quite a lot.

I totally support getting as many of these players into the sim as soon as feasible, but I'd also encourage some consideration of how changes in the record would impact things. I'm sure it's not Admin's goal to have to "fix" these players on a regular basis once they're added, and we have no real precedent for a change in the historical stats of players in the existing database, do we?

Why all this huff and puff about racism.
all of us in sim baseball yearn to have the negro league players finally added.
but now that we see the stats there are issues.

the issue is whether to use partial seasons or to prorate those partial seasons. For example - should a 45 inning season for Satchel Paige be used AS IS or should it be prorated like the 2020 season to 200 innings.

the problem is that the 2020 season is a goof.
and the negro league seasons at some point were often far less then 60 games. Some seasons were in the 30s.

Since it is all about the stats that is why we are discussing this.
and why the search for more games is important.
in the 1920s there seem to be more game stats available and records of 80-90 games so this could be prorated....and the more stats found the more accuracy.

the problem is for seasons with 30-40 games.
and pitchers for example that where the stars having started less then 10 games.

because white bob milacki '88 is recognized

he and his mighty 25

I agree with pretty much everything the Prof said, but also agree with Dino's comment:

Since it is all about the stats that is why we are discussing this.

no one here is arguing that they shouldn't be in, but rather in how they should be implemented as there are that I've discovered, multiple precedent for this.

Are players who reached the minimums (50pa/25ip) prorated to /162 (like all seasons pre-1961 and all shortened years like 1994)?

Are players who didn't reach the minimums prorated to/162 (like 2020 players)?

Will players just be added in as they are, with no prorating? Paige's 50ip will just be 50ip, Gibson's 145pa El just be 145pa..?

These are the questions we, and likely admin are asking.

Do I agree that Ruth had it easy not facing black pitchers? Yes. Do I think as a country we continue to white wash history and belittle the impact it played on black history? Yes. Do I agree that we've had a barrage of horribly unqualified white male presidents in this country, while the women and people of color continue to kick *** and prove their worth? Hell yes.

But that does not change the importance of the former part of this post.

Also, in regards to 2020. I have zero issues with what we got as a product. I'd rather have the crazy 2020 players than no 2020 players. Dynamic pricing when it returns will balance out any anomalies or standouts in use/performance and it'll be fine. For now I'm just glad to have these guys in the game, and I share a similar opinion on the negro league players, and pre-1887 players. Give us baseball, whether it was 30 games, 50 games, or 162 games. We already deal with .400 hitters in 1887 because walks counted as hits, o errors weren't counted, or there were no "boundaries" so balls would just roll forever, etc. Baseball is crazy. Bring it on.

Thank you for your posts above, Italyprof. Insightful and challenging.

Adding Negro League stats will be cool. I certainly support their inclusion here on WIS when they figure out a good way to implement them. But for anyone to say that WIS is racist for not including them before now is just silly.