Posted by Ccobb12 on 8/5/2021 10:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hockey1984 on 8/5/2021 9:39:00 PM (view original):
This is fantastic. Super excited for the app. Love that the admins listened about injuries and playoff boosts in HBD.

sim league hockey gets nothing (but doesn’t really deserve it).

Oops. Hockey is definitely on there it must have not survived the copy/paste from word. I will revise and add tomorrow. It will get a UI upgrade as well as some reworked engine logic. Maybe make it flexible for a future dynasty game ;)

Yes, Dynasty Hockey, Please! Remember hockey is played all over the world. So you could have a huge base to get new people to join WIS, to game.

Any chance the new baseball product will be set up so players like Shohei Ohtani, Bob Caruthers, Babe Ruth and many more who pitched and played in the field be able to do the same in the sim?
That would be a great addition in my opinion.

Cannot wait for a hockey dynasty game

Posted by taylorn on 8/7/2021 7:49:00 AM (view original):
There needs to be major refinement and nuance added to the Hoops Dynasty job stuff. If its the initial proposal, and no further thought, then I am out.

they made a major adjustment to the proposal a few weeks back
https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=528307

i think they did a pretty good job, but at a bare minimum, its much improved

Posted by szczubelek on 8/8/2021 7:58:00 AM (view original):
Any chance the new baseball product will be set up so players like Shohei Ohtani, Bob Caruthers, Babe Ruth and many more who pitched and played in the field be able to do the same in the sim?
That would be a great addition in my opinion.

This would be huge.

I have some thoughts from how the last attempt at this went under the current engine. Don’t know how the new engine would handle certain aspects, but I’d be happy to discuss how it worked from someone who beta tested this features last decade before it got scrapped.

Always miss those update posts. Best wishes to Adam, welcome aboard newbies!, and full steam ahead. Sincerely appreciate the transparency and the TTATO participation. It means a lot to put a face with news.

Now, since there are no dev chats, can we possibly learn which position in the depth chart is the fullback? Lol!

What are the plans with SIM Hockey?

Exciting stuff - thanks for keeping everyone in the loop!

Posted by chargingryno on 8/6/2021 6:22:00 PM (view original):
You may be right with that. I’m not familiar with the NBA sim at all, I’d ask though- are most leagues filled with teams running all the same cookies? Or are teams still diverse?

I know that was a big part of the baseball DP. Wasn’t necessarily requested, but there were plenty of complaints about all the cookie cutter teams and DP was the solution to that.

Open leagues have almost no diversity. Theme leagues have some depending on the theme. Progressives tend to be to the side.

but (again) dynamic pricing does not solve that issue, it's cosmetic - fix the actual problem (cap the assist boost)

Posted by copernicus on 8/6/2021 7:02:00 PM (view original):
the way I think of it is this - behind all the What If' window dressing what we are actually doing is running stat tables through a statistical simulation engine

I think what you mean by cookies equates to fielding whichever guys best express whatever the current most successful exploit of that engine might be

In the NBAsim right now the dominant model is 'assist % stacking' - cosmetically that looks like cloned Stocktons w Magic and Lebron downshifted into forwards and a Giannis or Jokic at center - what it really means though is you are fielding ca. 170 assist percentage points cumulative across your 5 positions (and effectively that is all that it means - I can get more or less the same results w 5 completely other guys)

what it does is drive FG% so high that none of the other player stats have the impact they are meant to &/or are valued at (this sports sim team-building stuff all ultimately winds up being an exercise in market economics just like in real life I guess) - the exploit undermines market value of all the other stats and so everyone has to draft the same way to compete

and so right now in the NBAsim world, everyone is upset about clones and Stocktons and clones of Stocktons etc but making Stockton more expensive doesn't address the real underlying issue which is that there should be a ceiling on stacked assist % - address that and we can all go back to having multiple different ways to win (at least until the next smart somebody comes along with the next exploit)

if all the stats were balanced and valued appropriate to their impact on outcomes and assuming any exploits were redressed consistently by admin we wouldn't need dynamic pricing

AND not only won't dynamic pricing address the underlying issues with cookies it will just F up the market valuation situation further and it will still require the kind of admin activism I have only ever seen promised and never seen produced

tl/dr? at least as far as the NBAsim is concerned just cap the assist % boost at 100% and we can move on to other things without the dynamic pricing, thanks anyway

Some good points here copernicus. I read all the posts and think I understand dynamic pricing when another post mentioned usage of players in high cap leagues driving up the price, therefore I understand the dynamic pricing means players chosen more often would cost more. Is there an advantage to to dynamic pricing? For example Bill Russell is one of the top 5 players in the history of the nba is except for maybe progressive leagues, guys like Clint Capela, Hassan Whiteside, Karl Anthony Towns, Andre Drummond - just to name a few - are usually taken before Russell. If his price was more affordable he could be chosen more often.

Another approach would be to use the 2pt%# (maybe the 3 as well) like I believe the baseball sim does to normalize to the league average. In 61-62 Bill Russell shot 45.7 and his 2pt# is 46.6 in wis. The league average was 42.6 putting Russell 7.2% higher than the league average.

The league average for FG% in the 20-21 season was 46.6% and 7.2% higher than that puts you just about at 50%. Those are extreme examples, but I think there would be more diversity in player usage if WIS adjusted shooting relative to the era.

Posted by copernicus on 8/9/2021 1:24:00 PM (view original):
but (again) dynamic pricing does not solve that issue, it's cosmetic - fix the actual problem (cap the assist boost)

Based on the note they said they are fixing the assist boost so I see them as separate things. Agree the cap boost is the most important thing for open leagues. My personal interest is in theme leagues were the assist problem isn't as big of a problem.

I haven't personally experienced the dynamic pricing so I can't say if i'd like it. But I do think player diversity selection could improve. Look at our old skool theme. How often is Bill Russell chosen if you take the Celtics? The answer is not enough. With sub 17 usage, mid 40% FG shooting and 9 seasons between 8-10 million people usually go with KG or Parish. I'd like to see something done to have guys like Russell, Baylor and others used more often. I wonder if dynamic pricing could add more strategy, I think the current version of the sim is "strategied out". Or maybe the answer isn't dynamic pricing, maybe it's better pricing or adjusting for history.

fix the assist boost and people wont be stacking Stocktons and there will be more variability - stats and not names/seasons should determine pricing - make high-efficiency, high usage, low TOs, 90 d rating combinations expensive and you will see less Lebrons per capita

Thanks for sharing this exciting news about WIS! Thanks for all of the work planning testing and putting into use all of the upcoming changes. We appreciate it.
As you make updates to the search features and develop the app, will there be any considerations made for screen reader accessibility? Overall the search features when team building work well. However there are some links in the GM's office that I need to use a work-around to access with my screen reading software.
I know all too well that planning for accessibility takes time. I am happy to help with this. When we strive for equity everyone can win.
Keep up the great work. We are cheering you on.