Posted by dontburnearl on 11/2/2021 8:07:00 PM (view original):
I've thought about the defensive update issue, and want to express my view here. I imagine that most people disagree with me and I know there are some personal relationships amongst more seasoned players (I am a relatively new player), but I think what Ben did here was obviously cheating - it's a shame, because he won last year, and is good enough in this platform obviously not needing to cheat. I just don't think that it is a coincidence that the person who had the most information about these changes benefited the most, specifically on Russell. I mean, he literally admitted it in his statement when he said it impacted his selection ), although he tried to soften the language. It's cheating plain and simple; my intention isn't get to into a back & forth with anyone, but to express a view that I have, and perhaps others have. Ultimately it's just a game, but just very disappointing that information was withheld from the group and used like this.

I'm a few pages behind on this because I've been trying to focus on not holding up the draft. I don't think you can say cheating for a guy whose ADP for 5 drafts was 46 and was taken very near that. I was in the draft where I was unclear on when the new players would be made available and that felt like more of an advantage than this. I think the lesson learned here is there has been quite a bit of discussion about changes and they should be made public about what they are and when they may be coming and then owners can choose to decide if they want to draft guys higher if the changes implement prior to the start of the seaon

Posted by jcred5 on 11/8/2021 8:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dontburnearl on 11/2/2021 8:07:00 PM (view original):
I've thought about the defensive update issue, and want to express my view here. I imagine that most people disagree with me and I know there are some personal relationships amongst more seasoned players (I am a relatively new player), but I think what Ben did here was obviously cheating - it's a shame, because he won last year, and is good enough in this platform obviously not needing to cheat. I just don't think that it is a coincidence that the person who had the most information about these changes benefited the most, specifically on Russell. I mean, he literally admitted it in his statement when he said it impacted his selection ), although he tried to soften the language. It's cheating plain and simple; my intention isn't get to into a back & forth with anyone, but to express a view that I have, and perhaps others have. Ultimately it's just a game, but just very disappointing that information was withheld from the group and used like this.

I'm a few pages behind on this because I've been trying to focus on not holding up the draft. I don't think you can say cheating for a guy whose ADP for 5 drafts was 46 and was taken very near that. I was in the draft where I was unclear on when the new players would be made available and that felt like more of an advantage than this. I think the lesson learned here is there has been quite a bit of discussion about changes and they should be made public about what they are and when they may be coming and then owners can choose to decide if they want to draft guys higher if the changes implement prior to the start of the seaon

I think people are being distracted by the ADP in trying to sort out what happened, because, IMO, the opposite is true. If Russell was drafted earlier by someone with some inside knowledge, at least Russell would have been drafted near his true value - but getting a player with such a big change in their numbers, at the same ADP he normally goes, shows the impact of Ben's cheating. I know that's a loaded word, but as Ben admitted, he used knowledge no one else had to impact his selection of Bill Russell - and that gave him an unfair advantage, which is the literal definition of that word.

Posted by dontburnearl on 11/8/2021 11:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jcred5 on 11/8/2021 8:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dontburnearl on 11/2/2021 8:07:00 PM (view original):
I've thought about the defensive update issue, and want to express my view here. I imagine that most people disagree with me and I know there are some personal relationships amongst more seasoned players (I am a relatively new player), but I think what Ben did here was obviously cheating - it's a shame, because he won last year, and is good enough in this platform obviously not needing to cheat. I just don't think that it is a coincidence that the person who had the most information about these changes benefited the most, specifically on Russell. I mean, he literally admitted it in his statement when he said it impacted his selection ), although he tried to soften the language. It's cheating plain and simple; my intention isn't get to into a back & forth with anyone, but to express a view that I have, and perhaps others have. Ultimately it's just a game, but just very disappointing that information was withheld from the group and used like this.

I'm a few pages behind on this because I've been trying to focus on not holding up the draft. I don't think you can say cheating for a guy whose ADP for 5 drafts was 46 and was taken very near that. I was in the draft where I was unclear on when the new players would be made available and that felt like more of an advantage than this. I think the lesson learned here is there has been quite a bit of discussion about changes and they should be made public about what they are and when they may be coming and then owners can choose to decide if they want to draft guys higher if the changes implement prior to the start of the seaon

I think people are being distracted by the ADP in trying to sort out what happened, because, IMO, the opposite is true. If Russell was drafted earlier by someone with some inside knowledge, at least Russell would have been drafted near his true value - but getting a player with such a big change in their numbers, at the same ADP he normally goes, shows the impact of Ben's cheating. I know that's a loaded word, but as Ben admitted, he used knowledge no one else had to impact his selection of Bill Russell - and that gave him an unfair advantage, which is the literal definition of that word.

Bill Russell was the highest player on my board regardless of defensive updates. I was under the impression that changes would most likely not happen until after savage started.

You really need to stop with the cheating talk. You are wrong.

Posted by benhoidal on 11/8/2021 11:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dontburnearl on 11/8/2021 11:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jcred5 on 11/8/2021 8:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dontburnearl on 11/2/2021 8:07:00 PM (view original):
I've thought about the defensive update issue, and want to express my view here. I imagine that most people disagree with me and I know there are some personal relationships amongst more seasoned players (I am a relatively new player), but I think what Ben did here was obviously cheating - it's a shame, because he won last year, and is good enough in this platform obviously not needing to cheat. I just don't think that it is a coincidence that the person who had the most information about these changes benefited the most, specifically on Russell. I mean, he literally admitted it in his statement when he said it impacted his selection ), although he tried to soften the language. It's cheating plain and simple; my intention isn't get to into a back & forth with anyone, but to express a view that I have, and perhaps others have. Ultimately it's just a game, but just very disappointing that information was withheld from the group and used like this.

I'm a few pages behind on this because I've been trying to focus on not holding up the draft. I don't think you can say cheating for a guy whose ADP for 5 drafts was 46 and was taken very near that. I was in the draft where I was unclear on when the new players would be made available and that felt like more of an advantage than this. I think the lesson learned here is there has been quite a bit of discussion about changes and they should be made public about what they are and when they may be coming and then owners can choose to decide if they want to draft guys higher if the changes implement prior to the start of the seaon

I think people are being distracted by the ADP in trying to sort out what happened, because, IMO, the opposite is true. If Russell was drafted earlier by someone with some inside knowledge, at least Russell would have been drafted near his true value - but getting a player with such a big change in their numbers, at the same ADP he normally goes, shows the impact of Ben's cheating. I know that's a loaded word, but as Ben admitted, he used knowledge no one else had to impact his selection of Bill Russell - and that gave him an unfair advantage, which is the literal definition of that word.

Bill Russell was the highest player on my board regardless of defensive updates. I was under the impression that changes would most likely not happen until after savage started.

You really need to stop with the cheating talk. You are wrong.

You had insider knowledge of these changes, you knew there was a reasonable chance it would be implemented in time for this league, you admitted it influenced your decision to draft him - maybe just admitting you made a mistake, apologize for it, and learn from this instead of doubling down you did nothing wrong. It's just a game so it's not a big deal in real life, but it is not helping your cause pretending you did nothing wrong.

Most of that is untrue.

I did not think there was a reasonable chance it would be implemented in time for this league as discussed earlier.

I did not admit it influenced my decision to draft him. I don’t think it did. As I have said, he was the top player on my board. What I said was it “might” have influenced my decision. What I meant by that is that it is impossible to say who I would have picked without the knowledge I had but that I believe I would have picked Russell anyways.

Again, I along with about ten others in this draft knew a change was coming. The time table was very uncertain and it did not seem likely at all it would affect this draft. A little before my selection I was told that November 16th was the target date t that it would probably be later. It was clear that the draft will finish before November 16th so I did not think the changes would be happening.

I believe that taking my top rated player is acting within reason and is what everyone else would have done.

You are distorting what actually happened.

Posted by benhoidal on 11/8/2021 12:07:00 PM (view original):
Most of that is untrue.

I did not think there was a reasonable chance it would be implemented in time for this league as discussed earlier.

I did not admit it influenced my decision to draft him. I don’t think it did. As I have said, he was the top player on my board. What I said was it “might” have influenced my decision. What I meant by that is that it is impossible to say who I would have picked without the knowledge I had but that I believe I would have picked Russell anyways.

Again, I along with about ten others in this draft knew a change was coming. The time table was very uncertain and it did not seem likely at all it would affect this draft. A little before my selection I was told that November 16th was the target date t that it would probably be later. It was clear that the draft will finish before November 16th so I did not think the changes would be happening.

I believe that taking my top rated player is acting within reason and is what everyone else would have done.

You are distorting what actually happened.

When someone says it "might" have influenced the pick....and you went ahead and picked him anyway - that is confirmation that it did impact it.

You also said you were told that November 16th was the target date - that's really valuable knowledge to have since it's pretty likely that rosters in this league won't be locked by that date (or it will be awfully close). In your one statement, you actually said you were told right before you drafted him that the changes were ready. I mean, c'mon....

The way to have avoided this was to pick another player - it's too much of a coincidence that the one player with by far the biggest change was picked by you. I don't know you, I assume you are a good guy, but you took advantage of insider knowledge, and it paid off for you. Congrats.

We've shared our positions - there is a disagreement - I am going to try really really hard not to respond anymore, since it is a distraction that can't be changed. Good luck to you this season!

I took the best player on my board regardless of any possible updates. Anyone saying they would have acted differently is lying.

Very happy with Nerlens Noel in the 11th!

I have a team that besides Jokic (26 minutes 35 D) and Ray Allen (37 minutes 40 D) is 90+ defenders

Posted by jcred5 on 11/8/2021 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Very happy with Nerlens Noel in the 11th!

I have had him twice, super useful player.

DBE, for the sake of argument, since you’re a new owner, we all have PTSD from updates that have come way, way too late, or not at all. It’s fair to say he had some idea who would be impacted but he couldn’t be sure of when - WIS management is perpetually understaffed and while the current regime is a massive improvement, I have no reason to think that they have the resources or discipline to be ahead of schedule, let alone with the right priorities in order. Russell could have been taken in that exact spot by someone who had no idea the updates were coming, or before. As I always say, you can’t blame anyone but yourself if you passed on him. I still wouldn’t go near Russell with a ten foot pole. So while I think it’s fair to say there was some impropriety, you can’t really gauge Ben’s knowledge here without proof.

And Ben, by now you’ve gotta know that telling us that you knew November 16th was the target date doesn’t do you any favors. We could very well not be locked by then and you know it. Just say you had some advance knowledge but didn’t know exactly what would happen and everyone will believe you and chalk it up to WIS being unpredictable. You had enough time to be more certain about Russell because of what you knew, consciously or subconsciously - even if Russell would have gone in the range of your pick anyway. In other words, you didn’t have to know about the update to pick Russell there - but you did, and now you’re trying to convince us all that what you knew doesn’t matter. It mattered because someone might have taken him before you if they knew, and because you didn’t warn everyone what was coming so that the playing field would be level.

^ bds, yes I understand that I could have gotten out of this whole situation by lying, but instead I've been very open about what transpired. Sure, that means I'm under fire a little, but I'm used to that, and I prefer to tell the truth even when lying could get me out of trouble. I took the best player on my board which did not factor in any potential updates. I think it is reasonable to assume that every single other person here would have also taken the best player on their boards. The playing field was level, because the information I had didn't affect my pick.

“Doesn’t do you any favors” in the sense of culpability, not honesty. The information you had could have impacted someone ELSE’s pick.

If there is a ten foot Pole I say we should teach him a little English, teach him how to be a rim protector and rebounder on the defensive end, and teach him how to be a pick and roll man at the other end. If he has soft hands and can stay out of foul trouble I think we might have something.