Posted by benhoidal on 11/8/2021 12:20:00 PM (view original):
I took the best player on my board regardless of any possible updates. Anyone saying they would have acted differently is lying.

Ben, with all due respect, this is not helping.

I believe you when say you think you would have picked Russell anyway. I understand why you're upset about the use of the term "cheating," which is not the term I would use. But if you are upset about someone suggesting they think you cheated when you honestly don't think you did, the response to that is not to call other people liars when they say they would have done something differently (or they think you should have done something differently). You are essentially saying that the choice you made (to not say anything about the potential update, and to draft Russell when you knew it was possible - however likely - that he would get a boost) was the only possible or reasonable choice.

I am one of the ten or so people you're talking about who knew a chance to defensive ratings had been proposed and was supposed to happen at some point. Unlike you, I had no idea it was imminent and had not been communicated November 16 or any date as a proposed date for that change. If I had been told November 16 was the target date, I would have been concerned about the impact that such major changes could have on this league and would have been inclined to share that information, vague and uncertain as it may have been.

I don't think you intended to cheat. I believe you when you say the proposed changes did not affect your pick of Russell. But that isn't really the point. The difference between this situation and the draft where we didn't know if the new player seasons would be out is that everyone had the same info, was dealing with the same uncertainty, and got the same choice about how to factor that gamble into their team building. (For the record, I was opposed to us drafting with that ambiguity regarding the player pool, but was happy to go along with the commish's choice.) Here, you appear to have been the only one with the info that the projected date for new defensive ratings was November 16. You were the only one who got the make the choice about how to factor that information in (if at all). And it's not appropriate for you to essentially tell other people that they didn't deserve the right to make that choice for themselves.

I was told not to share as nothing was for certain. If someone can come up with a reasonable alternative to what I did I’d love to hear it. So far I’ve heard that I should have quit (laughable), that I should have drafted someone else (all three of the players I had in the top tier were effected. I’m not just going to not draft the top player on my board), or that I should have told everyone (not an option, sorry).

If you were the only one who knew that an update was coming that would help LeBron and no one else, you still would have drafted LeBron. So would have everyone else.

Drafting the best player on my board WAS the only reasonable choice.

This is honestly wild. People have been upset for a decade now about this stuff. Ben and a group of people do the work to get it done, and we get mad at them?

Ben isn’t helping because he is telling truth? This is Skip Bayless stuff.

To act like we haven’t dealt with this exact situation with regular seasons dropping before is so wild to me. Pretending we live in a world where deadlines are met on this website is a joke.

Don't tell me we can't walk and chew gum at the same time - this is directed at everyone, in general. With that I will patiently wait for my pick and try to avoid whatever happens here.

I can say pretty confidently, not everyone in here can walk and chew gum at same time.

Posted by jhsukow on 11/8/2021 6:06:00 PM (view original):
This is honestly wild. People have been upset for a decade now about this stuff. Ben and a group of people do the work to get it done, and we get mad at them?

Ben isn’t helping because he is telling truth? This is Skip Bayless stuff.

To act like we haven’t dealt with this exact situation with regular seasons dropping before is so wild to me. Pretending we live in a world where deadlines are met on this website is a joke.

No one said that Ben isn’t helping because he’s telling the truth. I said he isn’t helping by calling other people liars.

Nor is anyone mad about people getting the defensive change done. Everyone has expressed universal thanks for that long-needed change.

As I explained above, this is nothing like the year we drafted with uncertainty about player seasons, because everyone had the same information about that.

Posted by 24kpyrite on 11/8/2021 6:47:00 PM (view original):
I can say pretty confidently, not everyone in here can walk and chew gum at same time.

Hahaha - wasn't expecting that, but, well, OK!

We all had the same information about Grant Hull, but he went in the 5th round.

Posted by 24kpyrite on 11/8/2021 6:47:00 PM (view original):
I can say pretty confidently, not everyone in here can walk and chew gum at same time.

I am a prolifically horrible multi-tasker.

This would have been the perfect year for evals Ben, you could have ridiculed a bunch of 2nd round picks by saying, "I would have drafted Bill Russell".

Oh Ben is doing evals or I am flying to him to fight.

Posted by 24kpyrite on 11/8/2021 7:04:00 PM (view original):
This would have been the perfect year for evals Ben, you could have ridiculed a bunch of 2nd round picks by saying, "I would have drafted Bill Russell".

Evals will be coming, but haven’t started them yet. Still time to throw in a bunch of Bill Russell jokes!

Posted by 24kpyrite on 11/8/2021 7:03:00 PM (view original):
We all had the same information about Grant Hull, but he went in the 5th round.

lol

Posted by benhoidal on 11/8/2021 5:59:00 PM (view original):
I was told not to share as nothing was for certain. If someone can come up with a reasonable alternative to what I did I’d love to hear it. So far I’ve heard that I should have quit (laughable), that I should have drafted someone else (all three of the players I had in the top tier were effected. I’m not just going to not draft the top player on my board), or that I should have told everyone (not an option, sorry).

If you were the only one who knew that an update was coming that would help LeBron and no one else, you still would have drafted LeBron. So would have everyone else.

Drafting the best player on my board WAS the only reasonable choice.

I didn't realize you weren't told not to say anything. If you said that before, I missed it. I said all the way back on Page 6 that what should have been done is to provide the information to everyone. That is the only way to solve the information imbalance that was created when WIS provided the information to you. That was why I believed it was what should have been done. If you were instructed not to change the information, that changes the calculus, but it doesn't change the information imbalance that existed.

As for the Lebron hypothetical: it's not really a great comparison, because Lebron's draft value can't go higher than consensus #1 pick. You could give him 90% efg and he'd still be picked in the same spot. The whole point with Russell is that the D change will make his ADP higher than it was before, making the information about a possible change material to the league. But in any event, if I had unique information about Lebron's stats possibly changing during the draft, I would have shared it unless i was not allowed to do so, even though it would not have affected my pick or anyone else's.

And again - I completely understand, and appreciate, you explaining your actions to everyone. What I wish you would stop doing is, in addition to doing that, telling everyone else that you know what they would have done and that they are liars if they say they would have done anything differently than you. Everyone else is entitled to think and say that they would have done something different in the same situation. Just like you are the only one who knows what you were thinking when you picked Russell - and as I've said I believe your explanation - you don't know what other people would have done in the same situation. So please do those other people the courtesy of letting them have their own opinions without calling them liars.

BTW--who were the others in your top tier with Russell? Mutombo and ____? (I'm very glad you left Mutombo as I would have taken him over Russell anyway, and still would.)

It was Russell, Mutombo, and Chandler. With Howard’s low assists I felt the other two would put me in a hole.