No, you're not.

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 2:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/1/2022 2:29:00 PM (view original):
This was years ago. So I’m not intentional pitchforking. I’d like to think that put the thought in his mind that it’s not a good idea to do so. I’ve kept that under my hat for years. I never intended to even talk about it. But I wanted to explain why I was “weird”

I was new to the game and you threatened to report me. I thought that was weird. Yeah, I never did it again. If you can find someone who says I have, I'll rub your shoulders haha.

That’s fair. I was cool with that. I don’t believe I threatened to report you. I think I mentioned something along the lines of we shouldn’t be doing that and if people are we should report them. But I literally never told CS or anything. It was just a small thing, that could’ve became a big thing. That’s why I mentioned that you handled it well.

no shoulder rub needed. I never suspected anything after that from you. And that’s why you never heard a peep out of me again about it. All is good.

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/1/2022 2:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 2:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/1/2022 2:29:00 PM (view original):
This was years ago. So I’m not intentional pitchforking. I’d like to think that put the thought in his mind that it’s not a good idea to do so. I’ve kept that under my hat for years. I never intended to even talk about it. But I wanted to explain why I was “weird”

I was new to the game and you threatened to report me. I thought that was weird. Yeah, I never did it again. If you can find someone who says I have, I'll rub your shoulders haha.

That’s fair. I was cool with that. I don’t believe I threatened to report you. I think I mentioned something along the lines of we shouldn’t be doing that and if people are we should report them. But I literally never told CS or anything. It was just a small thing, that could’ve became a big thing. That’s why I mentioned that you handled it well.

no shoulder rub needed. I never suspected anything after that from you. And that’s why you never heard a peep out of me again about it. All is good.

Sounds good. I just think people should know the facts before pressuring CS to permanently ban coaches.

robinhood410 is my dad. He is one of the people caught up in this ridiculous ordeal. He has taught me a lot of things, including a true love for HD, and, more importantly, he has taught me honestly and integrity not just through his words but by his deeds. He is not a cheater. Neither are Doogan or Cimmy426 (who are my uncles) nor BDash - a good friend of theirs. I don't know this swenske guy or anyone else that was banned (maybe they're terrible people who cheat at everything, I dunno), but I do know those guys, and they were absolutely NOT doing anything that they thought was, in ANY WAY, against the rules or against any fair play.

I have been following this forum since they got banned, and a lot of people have jumped to some wild conclusions. This whole "scheme" as people have so eloquently labeled it, was as simple as this - if you inform a recruit that he will be redshirted and then, in a later cycle, if you inform him that he will NOT be redshirted, you gain some "recruiting credit." My uncle (cimmy426) discovered this, by accident, one day when he changed his mind about redshirting a guy, informed him of no redshirt and noticed that he had improved his status with the recruit just by that action. My uncle (who is also a highly respected HBD commissioner who has ferreted out cheaters himself) thought that it might be a glitch, so he immediately reported it to Customer Service. And, NOT ONLY did CS not tell him that it was against the rules, but they CONFIRMED that it provided recruiting benefits.

So, they figured that it was part of the game, which makes sense to me, too. I mean wouldn't a recruit want to hear that he was definitely NOT going to be redshirted? Of course he would! So, it makes sense that you would gain some recruiting credit by telling a kid "hey, i will NOT redshirt you." And, what also makes sense, is that it wasn't all that much credit - maybe equal to about 30-40 APs, which seems like a lot when used a ton in the first day (to benis's original point), but it wasn't swinging any individual battles by more than a percentage point or two. That said, the point about the perception of effort is a good one. So, for that, I am glad that it is coming to light. Because if people know about it (and, these guys had no reason to think that people did not know about it), then maybe that "perception advantage" wouldn't be an advantage. That's a fair point and reason to change the system, but still shows that they did nothing wrong.

Also, and this is another key point, there are downsides to it. One, you can't "lay claim" to a recruit because it takes multiple cycles to play out (inform of redshirt then inform of no redshirt then use APs). But, that's minor. The major downside is that sometimes, if the recruit was at a level of quality that would never accept a redshirt from your team, he would get very mad at the "inform of redshirt" and no amount of recruiting effort (including "inform of no redshirt") would make him consider you at all. Everything would be 0% even with like a thousand APs or whatever.. Nothing. So, this "trick" or "hack" as you guys call it, or "viable recruiting gamble" as these guys thought of it, was just that - a gamble. It was of absolutely no use in D2. And that is why (before you all ask) I have never used it - not because I, in any way, thought it was cheating (I would never cheat...my dad taught me that) - I have never used it because I have never played in D1 and, in D2, I usually try to recruit D1 guys (another thing my dad taught me) and D1 guys would never accept a redshirt at D2, so this "hack" would have backfired on me. So, these guys looked at it as a viable, legal, open recruiting gamble at D1 that was available to anyone but had to be used strategically. My dad and these guys never used it on their top targets or on anyone they didn't want to risk losing. They only used it for fallback options and rotation pieces and stuff. You all weren't "robbed of championships" because of it, I promise. Also, they never did it in D2. So, for those that want to tear them all down and say that their success was simply due to some ridiculous cheating conspiracy, take a step back and look at their D2 resumes and their resumes before they stumbled upon this thing. They are very good at this game and have tried to teach me the best they could. They do not collude. They do not cheat. They play the game fairly, and they play the game well. Many of you should know that after all the years you've played with them.

So, to me the bottom line is that this became a runaway train that has just run over a couple of really good users and, more importantly, a couple of really good people. It's fine. They all have full lives without Whatifsports, but they have been, from what I can tell, highly respected members of this online community for 18 years...EIGHTEEN YEARS!!! And, now they are getting railroaded out of here for something that they did not even know was wrong AND for something that they brought to the attention of Customer Service when they first discovered it.

I am proud of my dad and my uncles. They handle their lives with integrity and honesty and took this injustice a lot better than I would have. I just really hope you all read this post with objectivity and open minds because they didn't do anything wrong.

Respectfully,
JC14

Thank you for your comment JC14 and very well said. If that’s the big whopper, cool. But I think if someone decided to do that once or twice, cool. But it gets slimy when someone has 24 scholarships open on cycle 5.

As one user said in the discord, bending rules is one thing. Breaking them, stomping them into the ground, is another. (I’m only referring to Swenske at this point. I only know what YOU just mentioned regarding the others)

It’s super sad to me that almost the entire conference that I’ve rep’d as maybe THE best in the game, has now entered the steroid era of HD. Based off your list of names. It’s basically the whole conference of legends that I just mentioned, and also said I wasn’t pointing at them. Now they’re being pointed at unfortunately

(I wanna add that I love Barry Bonds and other steroid players. So I’m just seeing it for what it is. No porch forks. Just a crappy situation)

Cimmy426? Who has coached at Hawaii/Allen for a long time, and always cleans up in recruiting?
Huh can't imagine how a boost in AP's could benefit someone in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

I believe this redshirting/unredshirting cheat would also work for D2 or D3 players if applied by coaches of those same divisions. Right?

Posted by hypnotoad on 11/1/2022 3:02:00 PM (view original):
Cimmy426? Who has coached at Hawaii/Allen for a long time, and always cleans up in recruiting?
Huh can't imagine how a boost in AP's could benefit someone in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

cimmy426 has cleaned up in recruiting for a very long time in various stops. He's gotta be one of the best DII coaches ever...ever. Does he just jump from one "hack" to another? How? Like I said, it's tempting for all who have not had as much success to make themselves feel better about themselves here. It may feel good to claim that Tom Brady isn't that good unless he can release a little pressure from the ball - doesn't make it true.

Believe what you want, but my dad and my uncles never had 24 scholarships open in 5 cycles and, like I said, they reported it immediately and were not told it was against the rules, it was never fixed, and they were actually told that “yes, it provides benefit.” And, now they’re banned for life. Doesn’t seem fair to me

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 11/1/2022 3:14:00 PM (view original):
I believe this redshirting/unredshirting cheat would also work for D2 or D3 players if applied by coaches of those same divisions. Right?

I heard that it only works in DI.

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 3:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hypnotoad on 11/1/2022 3:02:00 PM (view original):
Cimmy426? Who has coached at Hawaii/Allen for a long time, and always cleans up in recruiting?
Huh can't imagine how a boost in AP's could benefit someone in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

cimmy426 has cleaned up in recruiting for a very long time in various stops. He's gotta be one of the best DII coaches ever...ever. Does he just jump from one "hack" to another? How? Like I said, it's tempting for all who have not had as much success to make themselves feel better about themselves here. It may feel good to claim that Tom Brady isn't that good unless he can release a little pressure from the ball - doesn't make it true.

Great way to defend the status quo - "The great guys are great even if they do choose to cheat".

I'm not a top Coach by any means, but I LOVE this game. 110%. Over a decade of paying out every month because I just CAN'T STOP playing. My teams are my HD families. To hear that this cheating (and it is, IMO) has been going on for this long is disheartening and disappointing. Ban them all...again, IMO. There's no reason to continue paying out every month if there's no consequences for people that break the rules.

D2 players informed of a redshirt by a D2 team, which I haven't done, has to be on par with D1 doing it with D1 players, right? And the same would go for D3 teams redshirting and unredshirting D3 recruits. And of course those D1 teams that dip into D2 for recruits could easily do it with D2 players. Right?

Posted by jc14 on 11/1/2022 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Believe what you want, but my dad and my uncles never had 24 scholarships open in 5 cycles and, like I said, they reported it immediately and were not told it was against the rules, it was never fixed, and they were actually told that “yes, it provides benefit.” And, now they’re banned for life. Doesn’t seem fair to me

Sincerely appreciate sharing what the glitch was.

Here's the problem with the response from CS - they don't play HD. They can't understand how things like this could be abused.

If you ask, "hey do I get credit for removing redshirt? " The answer is of course, yes.

They don't think through how someone could turn this into a hack by just doing that on 20+ recruits as part of the coach's "strategy" like Swenske did.

There is absolutely no way that what Swenske did could be perceived as fair or "part of the game".

As for the rest of your family, I have no idea what they did or how they used it. But let's be careful of using the "CS said it was OK" defense. I totally get your point though.

JC14, first, thank you for bringing to light the details of the vulnerability. Obviously, CS was not ready for that but this was inevitable and anyone who uses it now should be punished to a further extent than those who were caught before Benis shined light on abnormalities he was seeing.

Second, in conversations with other longtime HD coaches about this issue as it has unfolded, one of our biggest concerns, and some have voiced this here in the forum string: we rued the moment when well-respected, long-time members, are caught using this exploit. That moment has come. I have throughly enjoyed my rivalry with your dad. I can almost always count on him to boost my SOS through our annual home-and-home game.

Third, let’s consider: how this did cost other coaches? A scholarship offer on a player is a signal to the rest of the coaches: “I am willing to battle for this recruit.” Even if the exploit could backfire, as you said, they wouldn’t use it on a primary target. Of course they didn’t need to do that since there is no amount of posturing that will ward off all coaches from interest in a 5-star recruit. The power of this exploit is through staking a claim to countless back up options and being able to go all-in on a few blue chips. When you have back up options, you can risk it all on a couple big fish. That is a HUGE advantage.

Do I want to see lifetime bans for all users of the exploit? No. But I will continue to advocate for some form of punishment. I think anyone using this exploit had to know they were gaining a substantial advantage. This flies in the face of fair play.