Posted by mrslam34 on 11/1/2022 6:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by RiddleFace on 11/1/2022 6:40:00 PM (view original):
From jc14's post: "The major downside is that sometimes, if the recruit was at a level of quality that would never accept a redshirt from your team, he would get very mad at the "inform of redshirt" and no amount of recruiting effort (including "inform of no redshirt") would make him consider you at all. Everything would be 0% even with like a thousand APs or whatever.. Nothing. So, this "trick" or "hack" as you guys call it, or "viable recruiting gamble" as these guys thought of it, was just that - a gamble. It was of absolutely no use in D2."

But if you use it on dozens of recruits without having to invest any AP then there is no longer any risk. It's not a gamble at that point.

Yeah exactly. You can do that on 200 recruits to start the session and then wait to see which ones are still available. Depending on the number of recruits, you could gain several hundred AP for free.

Posted by RiddleFace on 11/1/2022 6:40:00 PM (view original):
From jc14's post: "The major downside is that sometimes, if the recruit was at a level of quality that would never accept a redshirt from your team, he would get very mad at the "inform of redshirt" and no amount of recruiting effort (including "inform of no redshirt") would make him consider you at all. Everything would be 0% even with like a thousand APs or whatever.. Nothing. So, this "trick" or "hack" as you guys call it, or "viable recruiting gamble" as these guys thought of it, was just that - a gamble. It was of absolutely no use in D2."

Clearly the rewards outweighed the risks.

Let's go over how it probably went down. Knowing of this loophole, I with confidence could offer every 5-star D1 talent I like 0 or 1 AP and inform of the redshirt in the first cycle. I can then spread the rest of my AP on all the 4 or 3 star players I like and inform them of a redshirt knowing they are less likely to react adversely to it. By the second cycle, I know every 5 star player that did not react harshly to the redshirt and I can exploit with the loophole bonus when I remove the redshirt, and since I've got experience using this exploit I would know what the minimum AP needed to unlock them would be. So I move the AP I used in the first cycle on the 4 and 3 star targets to the 5 stars. Then I get the unredshirt bonus too with the 4 and 3 star players, and once again with experience, know the minimum AP to use on them to unlock them as well. And that, as I see it, is how Swenske unlocked TWO DOZEN players by the third cycle. Yeah, that's massively unfair.

We also need to remember that Swenske and the rest of the cheaters/loopholers knew who each other were, so they probably avoided each other as much as possible. That is another unfair advantage that we haven't brought up, or at least I haven't seen discussed much here.

Interesting turn here. This isn't as blatant as I initially imagined either, but still not fair play IMO. If you're doing something that you can be confident 99% of other coaches, including HD legends, are not remotely aware of, then you might be doing something sketchy.

If you stood for the integrity of the game, you'd make more noise about it. You wouldn't quietly continue to take advantage while having a significant advantage over 99%+ of the community.

On that note, this isn't quite the same as doubling your APs each cycle, but being able to get a head start on offering a recruit is huge, for reasons we all know. If a school offers within two cycles, you know they mean business and you might reconsider whether you want to engage in what's likely to be an expensive battle.

Posted by trail on 11/1/2022 6:56:00 PM (view original):
Interesting turn here. This isn't as blatant as I initially imagined either, but still not fair play IMO. If you're doing something that you can be confident 99% of other coaches, including HD legends, are not remotely aware of, then you might be doing something sketchy.

If you stood for the integrity of the game, you'd make more noise about it. You wouldn't quietly continue to take advantage while having a significant advantage over 99%+ of the community.

On that note, this isn't quite the same as doubling your APs each cycle, but being able to get a head start on offering a recruit is huge, for reasons we all know. If a school offers within two cycles, you know they mean business and you might reconsider whether you want to engage in what's likely to be an expensive battle.

Something is getting lost here. The only way Hawaii would be able to win 3 NCs in 20 seasons after as a program in all of HD (all 10 worlds) only winning 1 in over 1500 seasons means that a lot more was happening then just unlocking recruits unfairly. In the Big East Allen CC it was recently posted by lamphet

"I was involved in some recruiting every now and then with St Johns, but personally never spotted anything out of the ordinary…but recruiting against Hawaii the past several seasons has proven so fruitless that I intentionally avoided international guys this year until I saw that he wasn’t on them (and he was VH with a ship offered to both after the second cycle).

Unless everyone was just naturally avoiding due to them being VH so quickly? Hopefully we'll find out soon enough.

Posted by tmacfan12 on 11/1/2022 6:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by trail on 11/1/2022 6:56:00 PM (view original):
Interesting turn here. This isn't as blatant as I initially imagined either, but still not fair play IMO. If you're doing something that you can be confident 99% of other coaches, including HD legends, are not remotely aware of, then you might be doing something sketchy.

If you stood for the integrity of the game, you'd make more noise about it. You wouldn't quietly continue to take advantage while having a significant advantage over 99%+ of the community.

On that note, this isn't quite the same as doubling your APs each cycle, but being able to get a head start on offering a recruit is huge, for reasons we all know. If a school offers within two cycles, you know they mean business and you might reconsider whether you want to engage in what's likely to be an expensive battle.

Something is getting lost here. The only way Hawaii would be able to win 3 NCs in 20 seasons after as a program in all of HD (all 10 worlds) only winning 1 in over 1500 seasons means that a lot more was happening then just unlocking recruits unfairly. In the Big East Allen CC it was recently posted by lamphet

"I was involved in some recruiting every now and then with St Johns, but personally never spotted anything out of the ordinary…but recruiting against Hawaii the past several seasons has proven so fruitless that I intentionally avoided international guys this year until I saw that he wasn’t on them (and he was VH with a ship offered to both after the second cycle).

I can't keep up with the posts. Hawaii was involved? DI Hawaii?

D1 Hawaii in Allen: https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/CoachProfile/Default.aspx?uid=426856&wid=6
D1 St. Joseph’s in Smith: https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/CoachProfile/Default.aspx?uid=426856&wid=4

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/1/2022 7:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tmacfan12 on 11/1/2022 6:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by trail on 11/1/2022 6:56:00 PM (view original):
Interesting turn here. This isn't as blatant as I initially imagined either, but still not fair play IMO. If you're doing something that you can be confident 99% of other coaches, including HD legends, are not remotely aware of, then you might be doing something sketchy.

If you stood for the integrity of the game, you'd make more noise about it. You wouldn't quietly continue to take advantage while having a significant advantage over 99%+ of the community.

On that note, this isn't quite the same as doubling your APs each cycle, but being able to get a head start on offering a recruit is huge, for reasons we all know. If a school offers within two cycles, you know they mean business and you might reconsider whether you want to engage in what's likely to be an expensive battle.

Something is getting lost here. The only way Hawaii would be able to win 3 NCs in 20 seasons after as a program in all of HD (all 10 worlds) only winning 1 in over 1500 seasons means that a lot more was happening then just unlocking recruits unfairly. In the Big East Allen CC it was recently posted by lamphet

"I was involved in some recruiting every now and then with St Johns, but personally never spotted anything out of the ordinary…but recruiting against Hawaii the past several seasons has proven so fruitless that I intentionally avoided international guys this year until I saw that he wasn’t on them (and he was VH with a ship offered to both after the second cycle).

I can't keep up with the posts. Hawaii was involved? DI Hawaii?

Yes D1 Hawaii in Allen has won 3 NC in around the last 20 seasons.
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/History.aspx?tid=6930

Previously across all 10 worlds, before Cimmy had taken over, a single National Championship had been won by any Hawaii team. That was a 24 win NC team in Season 27 in Smith. Other than that, 0 titles until Cimmy recently made them a Dynasty.

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 11/1/2022 6:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by RiddleFace on 11/1/2022 6:40:00 PM (view original):
From jc14's post: "The major downside is that sometimes, if the recruit was at a level of quality that would never accept a redshirt from your team, he would get very mad at the "inform of redshirt" and no amount of recruiting effort (including "inform of no redshirt") would make him consider you at all. Everything would be 0% even with like a thousand APs or whatever.. Nothing. So, this "trick" or "hack" as you guys call it, or "viable recruiting gamble" as these guys thought of it, was just that - a gamble. It was of absolutely no use in D2."

Clearly the rewards outweighed the risks.

Let's go over how it probably went down. Knowing of this loophole, I with confidence could offer every 5-star D1 talent I like 0 or 1 AP and inform of the redshirt in the first cycle. I can then spread the rest of my AP on all the 4 or 3 star players I like and inform them of a redshirt knowing they are less likely to react adversely to it. By the second cycle, I know every 5 star player that did not react harshly to the redshirt and I can exploit with the loophole bonus when I remove the redshirt, and since I've got experience using this exploit I would know what the minimum AP needed to unlock them would be. So I move the AP I used in the first cycle on the 4 and 3 star targets to the 5 stars. Then I get the unredshirt bonus too with the 4 and 3 star players, and once again with experience, know the minimum AP to use on them to unlock them as well. And that, as I see it, is how Swenske unlocked TWO DOZEN players by the third cycle. Yeah, that's massively unfair.

We also need to remember that Swenske and the rest of the cheaters/loopholers knew who each other were, so they probably avoided each other as much as possible. That is another unfair advantage that we haven't brought up, or at least I haven't seen discussed much here.

Ok yeah when you lay it out like that it does feel pretty exploit-y haha.

Posted by npb7768 on 11/1/2022 6:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 6:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gigrant on 11/1/2022 5:43:00 PM (view original):
lifetime ban is impossible. they'd just start a new account. actually, i have to wonder if a few of the posts that seem to be silly in their rationale aren't them already posting in whatever secondary account they have....

cimmy426 must have really hurt you.

Almersk:
"...I happen to think there are plenty of mitigating factors here to deem a warning (and fix the glitch!) enough..."
.

The problem isn't canceling, or pitchforks... it would be lack of any accountability. They can break the rules, break the laws, play the victim, then get a warning. You support *zero* accountability.

They broke rules? Ok, that's probably true. They broke laws??? I think the authorities should be alerted! This sounds serious. Play the victim? When did that happen? Seriously, please provide examples - you can't because they couldn't even if they tried. It's really difficult to take you seriously when half the things you say in your response are both hyperbolic and easily refutable.

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 7:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 11/1/2022 6:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 6:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gigrant on 11/1/2022 5:43:00 PM (view original):
lifetime ban is impossible. they'd just start a new account. actually, i have to wonder if a few of the posts that seem to be silly in their rationale aren't them already posting in whatever secondary account they have....

cimmy426 must have really hurt you.

Almersk:
"...I happen to think there are plenty of mitigating factors here to deem a warning (and fix the glitch!) enough..."
.

The problem isn't canceling, or pitchforks... it would be lack of any accountability. They can break the rules, break the laws, play the victim, then get a warning. You support *zero* accountability.

They broke rules? Ok, that's probably true. They broke laws??? I think the authorities should be alerted! This sounds serious. Play the victim? When did that happen? Seriously, please provide examples - you can't because they couldn't even if they tried. It's really difficult to take you seriously when half the things you say in your response are both hyperbolic and easily refutable.

Furthermore, I support a warning and I also support some sensible punishment. I get it that they gained an advantage. Just have the punishment fit the crime (thought you'd like that one haha).

I’m not as concerned about Hawaii as others are. Sure it might smell funny. But a good coach could win anywhere.

THE most convincing thing, and nothing more, is that elite veteran coaches were doing this, knowing they knew something that others as a whole did not know about (including other elite coeches), they shared it amongst a small circle of themselves, and continued to do it. Bottom line.

I’m a good coach. Elite? That’s up for others to debate. But I have no problem sharing everything I do, with all coaches in HD. I like the competition. If I started to share something with coaches, and it smelled fishy, and they said to me “I’ve never heard of this”, my instincts would tell me to discuss it with many others. If it was foul, I’d feel that way. And I’d know better. There’s NOTHING about this entire scandal that is gray area. They knew they found something. They knew they were in an exclusive group that knew it and no others knew. And they knew it would be a problem if they went public With it. So they kept it to themselves and did it as long as they could. And here we are. A tainted conference, a tainted legacy as a group. What more needs to be said?

you can't call yourself topdoggg (3 friggin g's!!) and then be humble. revise your post!!!!

Could someone say briefly what the loophole actually was? This is a lot to read through. It was a hack? What exactly was done to get more ap for the coach?