Posted by gigrant on 11/1/2022 8:28:00 PM (view original):
i was thinking trial by combat. but benis seems to know a lot about torture.

Hahah nice. Got a good chuckle.

Gil, I hope you know I'm totally kidding. Ive learned a lot from your long and rambling posts over the years. I always appreciate what you have to say, even if I dont always agree with it.

Thanks for this almersk. Wow that'a s lot of family in WIS. Just two things. 1.) I did notice that withdrawing redshirt gave some sort of credit. I would see this in change of levels of where you were at in the recruit's mind, very low to low, for example. I always did this after unlocking though. So it's hard for me to critique them for doing this with unlocking. They should have publicized it to everyone is the problem I think is everyone's point. 2.) Your point about doing inform of redshirt and having bad and unfixable effects on recruits is well taken. That's why I don't play around with it more. BUT, it's important to note that ALL internationals will take the redshirt, even the A ones. It just doesn't happen much because of the competition for them.

Posted by RiddleFace on 11/1/2022 6:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mlitney on 11/1/2022 6:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by RiddleFace on 11/1/2022 6:08:00 PM (view original):
So now that we know the method that was being used to unlock scholarships, what exactly is the rule violation?

Cheating

All owners must play by the rules and requirements set forth by each game on our site. If an owner discovers a loophole, a way to cheat, or any other method of giving himself an unfair advantage, WhatIfSports reserves the right to take the necessary steps to correct the issue at any time without prior notification. Refunds or roster changes will not be given to any owner in this situation.

There you go buddy. Imagine reading the rules.

The coaches gave themselves an advantage, but what makes it an "unfair advantage"?

Imagine being this guy. Just disagreeing to disagree.

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 8:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cal_bears on 11/1/2022 8:02:00 PM (view original):
Could someone say briefly what the loophole actually was? This is a lot to read through. It was a hack? What exactly was done to get more ap for the coach?

For some context, this is from the Hawaii coach's brother's son:

"robinhood410 is my dad. He is one of the people caught up in this ridiculous ordeal. He has taught me a lot of things, including a true love for HD, and, more importantly, he has taught me honestly and integrity not just through his words but by his deeds. He is not a cheater. Neither are Doogan or Cimmy426 (who are my uncles) nor BDash - a good friend of theirs. I don't know this swenske guy or anyone else that was banned (maybe they're terrible people who cheat at everything, I dunno), but I do know those guys, and they were absolutely NOT doing anything that they thought was, in ANY WAY, against the rules or against any fair play.

I have been following this forum since they got banned, and a lot of people have jumped to some wild conclusions. This whole "scheme" as people have so eloquently labeled it, was as simple as this - if you inform a recruit that he will be redshirted and then, in a later cycle, if you inform him that he will NOT be redshirted, you gain some "recruiting credit." My uncle (cimmy426) discovered this, by accident, one day when he changed his mind about redshirting a guy, informed him of no redshirt and noticed that he had improved his status with the recruit just by that action. My uncle (who is also a highly respected HBD commissioner who has ferreted out cheaters himself) thought that it might be a glitch, so he immediately reported it to Customer Service. And, NOT ONLY did CS not tell him that it was against the rules, but they CONFIRMED that it provided recruiting benefits.

So, they figured that it was part of the game, which makes sense to me, too. I mean wouldn't a recruit want to hear that he was definitely NOT going to be redshirted? Of course he would! So, it makes sense that you would gain some recruiting credit by telling a kid "hey, i will NOT redshirt you." And, what also makes sense, is that it wasn't all that much credit - maybe equal to about 30-40 APs, which seems like a lot when used a ton in the first day (to benis's original point), but it wasn't swinging any individual battles by more than a percentage point or two. That said, the point about the perception of effort is a good one. So, for that, I am glad that it is coming to light. Because if people know about it (and, these guys had no reason to think that people did not know about it), then maybe that "perception advantage" wouldn't be an advantage. That's a fair point and reason to change the system, but still shows that they did nothing wrong.

Also, and this is another key point, there are downsides to it. One, you can't "lay claim" to a recruit because it takes multiple cycles to play out (inform of redshirt then inform of no redshirt then use APs). But, that's minor. The major downside is that sometimes, if the recruit was at a level of quality that would never accept a redshirt from your team, he would get very mad at the "inform of redshirt" and no amount of recruiting effort (including "inform of no redshirt") would make him consider you at all. Everything would be 0% even with like a thousand APs or whatever.. Nothing. So, this "trick" or "hack" as you guys call it, or "viable recruiting gamble" as these guys thought of it, was just that - a gamble. It was of absolutely no use in D2. And that is why (before you all ask) I have never used it - not because I, in any way, thought it was cheating (I would never cheat...my dad taught me that) - I have never used it because I have never played in D1 and, in D2, I usually try to recruit D1 guys (another thing my dad taught me) and D1 guys would never accept a redshirt at D2, so this "hack" would have backfired on me. So, these guys looked at it as a viable, legal, open recruiting gamble at D1 that was available to anyone but had to be used strategically. My dad and these guys never used it on their top targets or on anyone they didn't want to risk losing. They only used it for fallback options and rotation pieces and stuff. You all weren't "robbed of championships" because of it, I promise. Also, they never did it in D2. So, for those that want to tear them all down and say that their success was simply due to some ridiculous cheating conspiracy, take a step back and look at their D2 resumes and their resumes before they stumbled upon this thing. They are very good at this game and have tried to teach me the best they could. They do not collude. They do not cheat. They play the game fairly, and they play the game well. Many of you should know that after all the years you've played with them.

So, to me the bottom line is that this became a runaway train that has just run over a couple of really good users and, more importantly, a couple of really good people. It's fine. They all have full lives without Whatifsports, but they have been, from what I can tell, highly respected members of this online community for 18 years...EIGHTEEN YEARS!!! And, now they are getting railroaded out of here for something that they did not even know was wrong AND for something that they brought to the attention of Customer Service when they first discovered it.

I am proud of my dad and my uncles. They handle their lives with integrity and honesty and took this injustice a lot better than I would have. I just really hope you all read this post with objectivity and open minds because they didn't do anything wrong.

Respectfully,
JC14"

that long post should be ignored by JC14 should be ignored. it's like asking me about my wife's cooking - you ain't gonna get the truth in print.

Posted by cal_bears on 11/1/2022 8:57:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for this almersk. Wow that'a s lot of family in WIS. Just two things. 1.) I did notice that withdrawing redshirt gave some sort of credit. I would see this in change of levels of where you were at in the recruit's mind, very low to low, for example. I always did this after unlocking though. So it's hard for me to critique them for doing this with unlocking. They should have publicized it to everyone is the problem I think is everyone's point. 2.) Your point about doing inform of redshirt and having bad and unfixable effects on recruits is well taken. That's why I don't play around with it more. BUT, it's important to note that ALL internationals will take the redshirt, even the A ones. It just doesn't happen much because of the competition for them.

Keep in mind almersk was so transparent that he didn't even put his real name. To me that entire writing screamed scam job and cover-up.

It would be hilarious if JC was just blowing smoke and making all this up.

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 8:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gigrant on 11/1/2022 8:28:00 PM (view original):
i was thinking trial by combat. but benis seems to know a lot about torture.

Hahah nice. Got a good chuckle.

Gil, I hope you know I'm totally kidding. Ive learned a lot from your long and rambling posts over the years. I always appreciate what you have to say, even if I dont always agree with it.

Same. Gil is alright. I just see some of the posts and think, “my lord does anybody even remember the point of the response?” by the time they get to the end of it!

i got no beef with Gil. Just fun to argue with. I’m not a “proper” type of guy. I’m rough around the edges. I like to sit around the table and play cards, shoot dice and smoke and drink. You know, fun stuff. Bullshittin. Releasing steam. Partying. With Gil and shoe I just feel like I’m voluntarily at a science fair or like I’m on a conference call with all the big shots at work. I try to keep HD as a game personally. To each their own!

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 8:25:00 PM (view original):
Honestly, everyone calling for a life time ban needs to calm down. Stop being ridiculous. I propose the following:

1st Offense - Ten "thank you sir may I have another" spankings from the coach of their choosing.

2nd Offense - Must read Gil's 1,700 page Auto-biography. Twice.

3rd Offense - Must listen to a podcast every night for a month starring me, Poopshoe and MikeT where we only discuss the random nature of Early Entries

Cheat at your own risk fellas.

I would listen to episode one of that podcast, not gonna lie.

Posted by cal_bears on 11/1/2022 8:34:00 PM (view original):
Yes, I agree favre, that's why I think it's silly Hawaii did this. I think it's really easy to recruit at Hawaii. Always have four open schollies and 17000 to spend and 100 ap. You can focus on two internationals and dump 5000 on two guys and open two of them on the first cycle, or close to it. Then coaches are going to back off because they know that Hawaii has to get the top internationals to be competitive and will focus resources on a couple guys. Others know he can likely go to 10000 on the top target, and no one wants to compete with that. And with focus on 2 each season, others don't know which of the targets will be the main focus. Then if there are top recruits in HI as there are every few seasons, that's gravy and basically free.
So it's dumb and unnecessary to cheat in Hawaii in my view.

Hawaii is not easy at all if your goal is to compete for Sweet 16 and beyond. Hawaii is relatively easy to become a consistent PIT/early exit NT team using the strategy you laid out above. If you exclude the cheat seasons, there is exactly one title in literally thousands of HD seasons.

Now, back to regularly scheduled programming.

Posted by favre3xmvp on 11/1/2022 7:31:00 PM (view original):
D1 Hawaii in Allen: https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/CoachProfile/Default.aspx?uid=426856&wid=6
D1 St. Joseph’s in Smith: https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/CoachProfile/Default.aspx?uid=426856&wid=4

I think you can throw in D1 Texas in Naismith too.

Since I’m in D2 Puerto Rico, I primarily recruit off the island and international. I always thought it was weird that quite a few of the top guys I would look at in these areas I’d always see swenske on them as well. Since I can set my sights quite high some times (looking at 3* and 2* players as a D2), I figured he just was looking at similar types of players and was spreading out his APs to have fall back options. Unfortunately, because he was Texas and had much better prestige (and recruiting budget), I’d back off and go in another direction. Irritates me to know I could of had a shot at some of these guys if I had kept a closer eye on them.

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 8:25:00 PM (view original):
Honestly, everyone calling for a life time ban needs to calm down. Stop being ridiculous. I propose the following:

1st Offense - Ten "thank you sir may I have another" spankings from the coach of their choosing.

2nd Offense - Must read Gil's 1,700 page Auto-biography. Twice.

3rd Offense - Must listen to a podcast every night for a month starring me, Poopshoe and MikeT where we only discuss the random nature of Early Entries

Cheat at your own risk fellas.

The islands are sacred. Don't make fun of my religion.

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 11/1/2022 9:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cal_bears on 11/1/2022 8:57:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for this almersk. Wow that'a s lot of family in WIS. Just two things. 1.) I did notice that withdrawing redshirt gave some sort of credit. I would see this in change of levels of where you were at in the recruit's mind, very low to low, for example. I always did this after unlocking though. So it's hard for me to critique them for doing this with unlocking. They should have publicized it to everyone is the problem I think is everyone's point. 2.) Your point about doing inform of redshirt and having bad and unfixable effects on recruits is well taken. That's why I don't play around with it more. BUT, it's important to note that ALL internationals will take the redshirt, even the A ones. It just doesn't happen much because of the competition for them.

Keep in mind almersk was so transparent that he didn't even put his real name. To me that entire writing screamed scam job and cover-up.

Dude, what? My name is Alex Mersky (almersk) and I have no idea what you're talking about. What "writing" are you talking about and what "scam job and cover-up" are you referring to?

Posted by digitalv on 11/1/2022 9:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by favre3xmvp on 11/1/2022 7:31:00 PM (view original):
D1 Hawaii in Allen: https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/CoachProfile/Default.aspx?uid=426856&wid=6
D1 St. Joseph’s in Smith: https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/CoachProfile/Default.aspx?uid=426856&wid=4

I think you can throw in D1 Texas in Naismith too.

Since I’m in D2 Puerto Rico, I primarily recruit off the island and international. I always thought it was weird that quite a few of the top guys I would look at in these areas I’d always see swenske on them as well. Since I can set my sights quite high some times (looking at 3* and 2* players as a D2), I figured he just was looking at similar types of players and was spreading out his APs to have fall back options. Unfortunately, because he was Texas and had much better prestige (and recruiting budget), I’d back off and go in another direction. Irritates me to know I could of had a shot at some of these guys if I had kept a closer eye on them.

I will say tho, as a D1 if I see D2 anybody leading on a 3* or 2* recruit, I’m coming for him. If I see Texas leading on him I just keep going. But if there’s a D2 leading in any elite recruit, I’ll be there to rip your heart out. Just saying!

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 9:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 11/1/2022 9:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cal_bears on 11/1/2022 8:57:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for this almersk. Wow that'a s lot of family in WIS. Just two things. 1.) I did notice that withdrawing redshirt gave some sort of credit. I would see this in change of levels of where you were at in the recruit's mind, very low to low, for example. I always did this after unlocking though. So it's hard for me to critique them for doing this with unlocking. They should have publicized it to everyone is the problem I think is everyone's point. 2.) Your point about doing inform of redshirt and having bad and unfixable effects on recruits is well taken. That's why I don't play around with it more. BUT, it's important to note that ALL internationals will take the redshirt, even the A ones. It just doesn't happen much because of the competition for them.

Keep in mind almersk was so transparent that he didn't even put his real name. To me that entire writing screamed scam job and cover-up.

Dude, what? My name is Alex Mersky (almersk) and I have no idea what you're talking about. What "writing" are you talking about and what "scam job and cover-up" are you referring to?

Wait. You think I'm not who I say I am? Why am I not surprised with all the conspiracy theory type thinking. Yikes.

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/1/2022 9:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by digitalv on 11/1/2022 9:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by favre3xmvp on 11/1/2022 7:31:00 PM (view original):
D1 Hawaii in Allen: https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/CoachProfile/Default.aspx?uid=426856&wid=6
D1 St. Joseph’s in Smith: https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/CoachProfile/Default.aspx?uid=426856&wid=4

I think you can throw in D1 Texas in Naismith too.

Since I’m in D2 Puerto Rico, I primarily recruit off the island and international. I always thought it was weird that quite a few of the top guys I would look at in these areas I’d always see swenske on them as well. Since I can set my sights quite high some times (looking at 3* and 2* players as a D2), I figured he just was looking at similar types of players and was spreading out his APs to have fall back options. Unfortunately, because he was Texas and had much better prestige (and recruiting budget), I’d back off and go in another direction. Irritates me to know I could of had a shot at some of these guys if I had kept a closer eye on them.

I will say tho, as a D1 if I see D2 anybody leading on a 3* or 2* recruit, I’m coming for him. If I see Texas leading on him I just keep going. But if there’s a D2 leading in any elite recruit, I’ll be there to rip your heart out. Just saying!

which is VERY understandable. I should never be able to pull kids like these (yet I’ve got a 2* on my PR team right now lol), so I don’t get upset if a D1 comes in to take them.