Posted by topdogggbm on 11/1/2022 9:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by digitalv on 11/1/2022 9:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by favre3xmvp on 11/1/2022 7:31:00 PM (view original):
D1 Hawaii in Allen: https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/CoachProfile/Default.aspx?uid=426856&wid=6
D1 St. Joseph’s in Smith: https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/CoachProfile/Default.aspx?uid=426856&wid=4

I think you can throw in D1 Texas in Naismith too.

Since I’m in D2 Puerto Rico, I primarily recruit off the island and international. I always thought it was weird that quite a few of the top guys I would look at in these areas I’d always see swenske on them as well. Since I can set my sights quite high some times (looking at 3* and 2* players as a D2), I figured he just was looking at similar types of players and was spreading out his APs to have fall back options. Unfortunately, because he was Texas and had much better prestige (and recruiting budget), I’d back off and go in another direction. Irritates me to know I could of had a shot at some of these guys if I had kept a closer eye on them.

I will say tho, as a D1 if I see D2 anybody leading on a 3* or 2* recruit, I’m coming for him. If I see Texas leading on him I just keep going. But if there’s a D2 leading in any elite recruit, I’ll be there to rip your heart out. Just saying!

Yup. I thought about posting something similar.

Posted by gigrant on 11/1/2022 9:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 8:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cal_bears on 11/1/2022 8:02:00 PM (view original):
Could someone say briefly what the loophole actually was? This is a lot to read through. It was a hack? What exactly was done to get more ap for the coach?

For some context, this is from the Hawaii coach's brother's son:

"robinhood410 is my dad. He is one of the people caught up in this ridiculous ordeal. He has taught me a lot of things, including a true love for HD, and, more importantly, he has taught me honestly and integrity not just through his words but by his deeds. He is not a cheater. Neither are Doogan or Cimmy426 (who are my uncles) nor BDash - a good friend of theirs. I don't know this swenske guy or anyone else that was banned (maybe they're terrible people who cheat at everything, I dunno), but I do know those guys, and they were absolutely NOT doing anything that they thought was, in ANY WAY, against the rules or against any fair play.

I have been following this forum since they got banned, and a lot of people have jumped to some wild conclusions. This whole "scheme" as people have so eloquently labeled it, was as simple as this - if you inform a recruit that he will be redshirted and then, in a later cycle, if you inform him that he will NOT be redshirted, you gain some "recruiting credit." My uncle (cimmy426) discovered this, by accident, one day when he changed his mind about redshirting a guy, informed him of no redshirt and noticed that he had improved his status with the recruit just by that action. My uncle (who is also a highly respected HBD commissioner who has ferreted out cheaters himself) thought that it might be a glitch, so he immediately reported it to Customer Service. And, NOT ONLY did CS not tell him that it was against the rules, but they CONFIRMED that it provided recruiting benefits.

So, they figured that it was part of the game, which makes sense to me, too. I mean wouldn't a recruit want to hear that he was definitely NOT going to be redshirted? Of course he would! So, it makes sense that you would gain some recruiting credit by telling a kid "hey, i will NOT redshirt you." And, what also makes sense, is that it wasn't all that much credit - maybe equal to about 30-40 APs, which seems like a lot when used a ton in the first day (to benis's original point), but it wasn't swinging any individual battles by more than a percentage point or two. That said, the point about the perception of effort is a good one. So, for that, I am glad that it is coming to light. Because if people know about it (and, these guys had no reason to think that people did not know about it), then maybe that "perception advantage" wouldn't be an advantage. That's a fair point and reason to change the system, but still shows that they did nothing wrong.

Also, and this is another key point, there are downsides to it. One, you can't "lay claim" to a recruit because it takes multiple cycles to play out (inform of redshirt then inform of no redshirt then use APs). But, that's minor. The major downside is that sometimes, if the recruit was at a level of quality that would never accept a redshirt from your team, he would get very mad at the "inform of redshirt" and no amount of recruiting effort (including "inform of no redshirt") would make him consider you at all. Everything would be 0% even with like a thousand APs or whatever.. Nothing. So, this "trick" or "hack" as you guys call it, or "viable recruiting gamble" as these guys thought of it, was just that - a gamble. It was of absolutely no use in D2. And that is why (before you all ask) I have never used it - not because I, in any way, thought it was cheating (I would never cheat...my dad taught me that) - I have never used it because I have never played in D1 and, in D2, I usually try to recruit D1 guys (another thing my dad taught me) and D1 guys would never accept a redshirt at D2, so this "hack" would have backfired on me. So, these guys looked at it as a viable, legal, open recruiting gamble at D1 that was available to anyone but had to be used strategically. My dad and these guys never used it on their top targets or on anyone they didn't want to risk losing. They only used it for fallback options and rotation pieces and stuff. You all weren't "robbed of championships" because of it, I promise. Also, they never did it in D2. So, for those that want to tear them all down and say that their success was simply due to some ridiculous cheating conspiracy, take a step back and look at their D2 resumes and their resumes before they stumbled upon this thing. They are very good at this game and have tried to teach me the best they could. They do not collude. They do not cheat. They play the game fairly, and they play the game well. Many of you should know that after all the years you've played with them.

So, to me the bottom line is that this became a runaway train that has just run over a couple of really good users and, more importantly, a couple of really good people. It's fine. They all have full lives without Whatifsports, but they have been, from what I can tell, highly respected members of this online community for 18 years...EIGHTEEN YEARS!!! And, now they are getting railroaded out of here for something that they did not even know was wrong AND for something that they brought to the attention of Customer Service when they first discovered it.

I am proud of my dad and my uncles. They handle their lives with integrity and honesty and took this injustice a lot better than I would have. I just really hope you all read this post with objectivity and open minds because they didn't do anything wrong.

Respectfully,
JC14"

that long post should be ignored by JC14 should be ignored. it's like asking me about my wife's cooking - you ain't gonna get the truth in print.

Right. Don't look over here. Don't allow another viewpoint because that person has an inherent bias. Do not allow actual critical thinking to play any part. It's so much easier for you to tell cal_bears to ignore their that family's viewpoint and to say it's null and void than it would be for you to explain, specifically, what you disagree with about jc14's post. Judge the post on the merits. Nothing mitigating there?

“CS implied it was part of the game.”

Hold on a moment. That doesn't say it is okay. Suggesting that they said it is okay, or even implied it is okay, is hearing what you want to hear, not what was said.

Besides that, my imagination is being stretched a bit too far. We’re being asked to believe that the original perp communicated with CS, and received some sort of tacit approval. They then shared the exploit with others, still with some sort of approval. Then the original perp or one of the other early users of this exploit got his family involved. All this time they never suspected that this huge advantage they had over every other player not associated with their little cabal wasn't legit. They continued using it even though they are so deeply principled and profoundly ethical. Sorry, that’s a fantasy. That’s an offer of oceanside real estate in Utah. Buyer beware.

Now their mouthpieces take to the forums, minimizing what happened, and want everyone to forgive and forget. The perps are the victims here. Bah. CS has no choice but to erase everything in the offending accounts if they want to retain any integrity in the Sportshub Games Network, which is a network of gambling websites, remember, and needs to be known for its absolute integrity. Half-measures, a slap on the wrist, simply cannot even be on the table.

One additional point: someone wrote, “It also makes me wonder how many additional credits were earned due to this. How many credits were taken away from other users over the years?” Good point. This potentially raises the issue of restitution by the offending parties, but I doubt that would be logistically possible.

geez.

it would seem like this glitch could be used to a pretty large advantage - almost like having an additional 2-3 (maybe more) scholorships worth of ap's each cycle. the redshirting can be done (and undone) if I'm reading it right on all players you aren't interested in (dozens of them who cares?), there is no risk, just the accumulation of ap credits for future recruiting on recruits you really do care about.

And it can be done the entire recruiting session, start to finish.

geez.

The glitch seems pretty serious to me.

the fix seems pretty simple though, code wise, just change the redshirt credit from 20 or 30 or whatever the number is to zero.

The punishment of those who abused it, not sure what I think of that - above my paygrade. I've long quit trying to influence the direction of this game, given up on that component of my participation. My hats off to all of those posting on these long 24 pages who are still contributing in that manner, I found it far too frustrating myself, again hats off to benis, and everyone else with their diverging pov's and opinions. I'm confident buried somewhere in there is a fair solution.

Posted by oldresorter on 11/1/2022 10:00:00 PM (view original):
geez.

it would seem like this glitch could be used to a pretty large advantage - almost like having an additional 2-3 (maybe more) scholorships worth of ap's each cycle. the redshirting can be done (and undone) if I'm reading it right on all players you aren't interested in (dozens of them who cares?), there is no risk, just the accumulation of ap credits for future recruiting on recruits you really do care about.

And it can be done the entire recruiting session, start to finish.

geez.

The glitch seems pretty serious to me.

the fix seems pretty simple though, code wise, just change the redshirt credit from 20 or 30 or whatever the number is to zero.

The punishment of those who abused it, not sure what I think of that - above my paygrade. I've long quit trying to influence the direction of this game, given up on that component of my participation. My hats off to all of those posting on these long 24 pages who are still contributing in that manner, I found it far too frustrating myself, again hats off to benis, and everyone else with their diverging pov's and opinions. I'm confident buried somewhere in there is a fair solution.

Unsurprisingly, very reasonable. I would just like to raise one more point: Had CS done their job correctly when the offender (NOT Swenske) brought it to CS' attention, they would all still have accounts.

He posted what CS told him right here https://imgur.com/a/gVBZj7f

They told him to message them if he ran across a similar situation, its right there

Posted by tmacfan12 on 11/1/2022 10:22:00 PM (view original):
He posted what CS told him right here https://imgur.com/a/gVBZj7f

They told him to message them if he ran across a similar situation, its right there

Looks like this was almost 3 years ago and the CS person said "If you run across a similar situation in the future, please let us know before recruiting ends and we can figure it out".

I think disregarding that request and knowing this loophole is pretty clear intent of cheating. Hard to defend him when he clearly knew what was going on neglected the CS request.

yep^^

This reminds me of 1000 post days back in the day.

Cimmy is doing an AMA on discord right now. • Discord | #hd-chat | HD

Posted by oldresorter on 11/1/2022 10:00:00 PM (view original):
geez.

it would seem like this glitch could be used to a pretty large advantage - almost like having an additional 2-3 (maybe more) scholorships worth of ap's each cycle. the redshirting can be done (and undone) if I'm reading it right on all players you aren't interested in (dozens of them who cares?), there is no risk, just the accumulation of ap credits for future recruiting on recruits you really do care about.

And it can be done the entire recruiting session, start to finish.

geez.

The glitch seems pretty serious to me.

the fix seems pretty simple though, code wise, just change the redshirt credit from 20 or 30 or whatever the number is to zero.

The punishment of those who abused it, not sure what I think of that - above my paygrade. I've long quit trying to influence the direction of this game, given up on that component of my participation. My hats off to all of those posting on these long 24 pages who are still contributing in that manner, I found it far too frustrating myself, again hats off to benis, and everyone else with their diverging pov's and opinions. I'm confident buried somewhere in there is a fair solution.

I'm not sure that this is the case re: being able to repeat this effort cycle after cycle, based on cimmy's explanation on the discord at least.

First off, I want to say to CS, I sympathize with you. This forum was sent to me a couple days ago and I’ve been attempting to keep up, but I was waiting to listen as much as I could before I spoke up. This is a whole bunch of outrage over non-cheating imo.

So, inform of non-redshirt being a positive would have to be assumed to be common knowledge, no? When you remove a redshirt, it’s literally called inform of non-redshirt, not non inform of redshirt. Meaning: *you will not be redshirted* if you read the actions in your recruit history page. I guess they’re going to change that wording and remove that action? I have only used it a couple times because I almost always want to leave open the door for a redshirt unless I’m in a battle. And if I were in a battle, I would want to get the promises on as soon as possible anyway. I also assumed that promised minutes would be much more beneficial than this (apparently risque) inform of non-redshirt would be as far as a recruiting action. So that button was assumed to be useless to me.

Now, let’s get to the next part. I was never smart enough to put 2 and 2 together and realize I could use this as a recruiting strategy in itself with no AP or other actions attached. I have to say I wish I had tried though, I carelessly didn’t experiment with this button unless I already had AP on. I think that deep down everyone still mad feels the same way, and they’re mad they didn’t think of it sooner.

It appears most of the outrage was early on, before it was uncovered what the “cheating” was. These Guys got banned for a good recruiting strategy, how silly.

I will say shout out to CS for at least showing a pulse with this, and that again I sympathize with you because you’re being put into a difficult conundrum, with angry people on both sides. I am not angry. I am just amused. And a little angry at myself for not even realizing I could have a positive impact early on recruits without even having to use up any AP.

Well, not anymore I guess. Do you guys want to know every single aspect of the game? Wouldn’t that make you God? What’s the fun in that? It would be like working as a developer for HD and still having your own team… Benis was getting bent so badly that he knew something fishy had to be going on, and I freaking admire the dedication for him to figure out what it was. Jokes aside, I mean this with all sincerity, there are some small good takeaways for me from this, for better or worse, there are so many people more heavily invested in this game than I previously realized. But it completely sucks *** that people got banned for no reason.

I hope this big mess somehow brings us all together closer as a community. I haven’t seen any kind of activity in HD like this… ever! Now CS, when you’re finished with this witch hunt (again, I sympathize with you, and I don’t blame you, an impossible situation), can we get these dudes back in, close the loophole, reinstate, move forward……..

And actually get a real issue fixed like how in the Iba world, the season starts several hours late every season? Pretty please?

Posted by wiredon65 on 11/1/2022 10:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tmacfan12 on 11/1/2022 10:22:00 PM (view original):
He posted what CS told him right here https://imgur.com/a/gVBZj7f

They told him to message them if he ran across a similar situation, its right there

Looks like this was almost 3 years ago and the CS person said "If you run across a similar situation in the future, please let us know before recruiting ends and we can figure it out".

I think disregarding that request and knowing this loophole is pretty clear intent of cheating. Hard to defend him when he clearly knew what was going on neglected the CS request.

Buncha ticky-tacky BS. Yeah, go out of their way TWICE trying to alert them? In this economy?

Posted by zemedlin on 11/2/2022 12:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wiredon65 on 11/1/2022 10:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tmacfan12 on 11/1/2022 10:22:00 PM (view original):
He posted what CS told him right here https://imgur.com/a/gVBZj7f

They told him to message them if he ran across a similar situation, its right there

Looks like this was almost 3 years ago and the CS person said "If you run across a similar situation in the future, please let us know before recruiting ends and we can figure it out".

I think disregarding that request and knowing this loophole is pretty clear intent of cheating. Hard to defend him when he clearly knew what was going on neglected the CS request.

Buncha ticky-tacky BS. Yeah, go out of their way TWICE trying to alert them? In this economy?

It’s about to get even worse if the Phillies win the world series.