ODL 86 Over/Unders Topic

yeah that's the (granted simplified) way I think of it - plus there are other considerations like if you do have some 90s which positions can they cover at 100% effectiveness? how precipitous is the drop-off in coverage of non-100 % effective positions? etc
11/3/2022 12:16 PM
Posted by steelers821 on 11/3/2022 11:39:00 AM (view original):
Maybe I’m thinking about this wrong but If you had a team full of players at 50 you’d probably be one of the worst defenses in the league. It may be net neutral in terms of impact but so many other teams will be so far above that.
That's true because all of us are very aware of drafting good defenders. So my defense might be on the lower end of the teams in this league, I haven't looked at all of them, but A Magic Bird has a bench full of weak defenders, and their starters are about where mine are. Woody Allen's starters are a bit weaker defenders than my team. Phasers has 4 killer defenders and Brent Barry starting.
11/3/2022 1:08 PM
Posted by savoybg on 11/3/2022 1:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by steelers821 on 11/3/2022 11:39:00 AM (view original):
Maybe I’m thinking about this wrong but If you had a team full of players at 50 you’d probably be one of the worst defenses in the league. It may be net neutral in terms of impact but so many other teams will be so far above that.
That's true because all of us are very aware of drafting good defenders. So my defense might be on the lower end of the teams in this league, I haven't looked at all of them, but A Magic Bird has a bench full of weak defenders, and their starters are about where mine are. Woody Allen's starters are a bit weaker defenders than my team. Phasers has 4 killer defenders and Brent Barry starting.
Was trying to squeeze in the 63 D Barry. The 50 will have to do. Thinking about trying a half court offense as a way of pressing the D advantage and offsetting my so-so efg%. Not sure how that would work.
11/3/2022 1:29 PM
Posted by savoybg on 11/2/2022 7:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by steelers821 on 11/2/2022 4:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by savoybg on 11/2/2022 3:59:00 PM (view original):
This is gonna be fun. Other than myself, the 3 ballots that have been posted all are going under 32.5 on my team, with 2 of the 3 having that pick as a Lock. Steelers and 24K both have me as a lock to win under 32.5 games. Can't wait to play those two!
Meh efg bad defense and 20.4k mins has me wondering how you’ll break 20 wins
You consider this to be BAD defense?

These are the guys in the rotation. The ONLY bad defenders are Young and Theus. Four of the 5 starters are 70-82.

Cowens - 70
Olajuwon - 80
Williams - 70
Outlaw - 82
Young - 34
West - 54
Smith - 59
Tinsley - 82
Theus - 41

The big assists totals I will have will raise the eFG to where I needs it to be. I should average 35+ assists per game. The turnovers are high though and I think my def rebounding is a bit low. We'll see.
I don’t know where you think your shooting percentage needs to be, but your passing will raise it by about 2%.
11/3/2022 1:46 PM
2% is a lot. That's 3-4 more points per game.
11/3/2022 3:10 PM
User Avg. Wins O/U Lock?
24kpyrite 43.4 O L
benhoidal 53.3 O L
bfhendricks 32.5 O
berkelon 43 O
chewy3344 49.7 U
copernicus 42.1 U
dakjd901 19 O
gerryred 40.8 U
jackedjamie 47.1 O
jethroeg 19.2 O
jhsukow 38.6 O
Midge 43.3 O
ncih 29.8 U
PBandJ 23 O
PirateSteve 38.5 U L
raggedclaws 44.4 O L
reeldeal01 50.4 U
riftonapple 54.5 U L
robusk 51 O
savoygb 32.5 U L
steelers821 37 O
thomcat 37.4 O
ty84moss 53 U
ysw128 41.6 U

More bulletin board material, savoygb. The fouls, turnovers, and light boards scared me off. Total usage looks good though and the passing should be nice.

jackedjamie's divison looks really tough. That's a meme, right?
11/3/2022 3:56 PM
User Avg. Wins O/U Lock?
24kpyrite 43.4 U
benhoidal 53.3 O L
bfhendricks 32.5 U
berkelon 43 U
chewy3344 49.7 U
copernicus 42.1 O
dakjd901 19 O L
gerryred 40.8 O
jackedjamie 47.1 O
jethroeg 19.2 U
jhsukow 38.6 U L
Midge 43.3 O L
ncih 29.8 U L
PBandJ 23 U
PirateSteve 38.5 O
raggedclaws 44.4 O L
reeldeal01 50.4 U
riftonapple 54.5 U
robusk 51 O
savoygb 32.5 U
steelers821 37 O
thomcat 37.4 U
ty84moss 53 U
ysw128 41.6 U
11/3/2022 7:37 PM
jackedjamie's divison looks really tough. That's a meme, right?
I put my draft list in order of avg wins!
11/4/2022 8:11 AM
Posted by jackedjamie on 11/4/2022 8:11:00 AM (view original):
jackedjamie's divison looks really tough. That's a meme, right?
I put my draft list in order of avg wins!
The fourth spot is usually awful in the division draft even if you set a perfect order.

I’d argue the top four in riftonapple’s division is so tough as to make it the most difficult division though.
11/4/2022 8:36 AM
User Avg. Wins O/U Lock?
24kpyrite 43.4 O
benhoidal 53.3 O X
berkelon 43 O
bfhendricks 32.5 O X
chewy3344 49.7 U
copernicus 42.1 O
dakjd901 19 O X
gerryred 40.8 O
jackedjamie 47.1 O
jethroeg 19.2 U
jhsukow 38.6 U
Midge 43.3 O
ncih 29.8 U X
PBandJ 23 U
PirateSteve 38.5 O
raggedclaws 44.4 O
reeldeal01 50.4 U
riftonapple 54.5 U X
robusk 51 O
savoygb 32.5 U X
steelers821 37 U
thomcat 37.4 U
ty84moss 53 U
ysw128 41.6 U
11/4/2022 10:20 AM
Posted by robusk on 11/4/2022 8:36:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jackedjamie on 11/4/2022 8:11:00 AM (view original):
jackedjamie's divison looks really tough. That's a meme, right?
I put my draft list in order of avg wins!
The fourth spot is usually awful in the division draft even if you set a perfect order.

I’d argue the top four in riftonapple’s division is so tough as to make it the most difficult division though.
On the surface, it seems that the division draft is potentially just another way for the rich to get richer. Why would we want the league standings to be so influenced by the ability of governors to correctly rank the teams? Why not just put them in order of avg wins in the past three seasons, and lay them out in a snake fashion, so as to try and get even divisions, or something like that? Not sure I understand the thinking behind the division draft process, other than to give another advantage to governors who win and spend extra time analyzing the whole league / understand the WIS engine better.

Isn't the goal to get the divisions even? I don't think that's what we have currently, at least to my untrained eye. But maybe that isn't the goal...Of course, maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't understand this aspect of the league, at least in terms of parity. I also realize that no system would be perfect, and maybe you've already tried 19 other ways of doing it, and this one is best. I'm probably missing something. That said, I love the league. Cheers.
11/4/2022 10:51 AM (edited)
why do you hate america?
11/4/2022 12:26 PM
Posted by savoybg on 11/2/2022 8:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by copernicus on 11/2/2022 8:04:00 PM (view original):
50 is statistically net neutral in terms of suppressing opp fg% - you got a couple of guys who might impact their match-ups and your aggregate is not great
Yes, so 250 is net neutral for the 5 guys on the court. I am at 336. My average defender in the starting lineup is 67.2. No way that's "bad" defense. It's not great, but it's certainly good.

I'd say 85+ is great, 70-84 is very good, and 60 to 69 is good.
Not exactly accurate.

Look at most players that are used in this and other premium leagues. The lowest defense rating you can find is a 4 and the lowest for a season over $3M is 14. In this league I would say the lowest you will find is around 35 for a player playing more than 10 MPG. That would bring the simple average to 67.5 [(35+100)/total data set]. This means in this league you need a defense around 67.5 to prevent overall mismatches. 337.5 is the baseline for net neutral not 250. The effective range of defenses can possibly fall between 28 and 500, but this is not realistic for this or any league.

Now to get nerdy...the average of the 5 players the will play the most minutes in this league per team is 364.0833 with a standard deviation of 44.04634. While your team falls within one STDEV you are on the back side of that, as am I. Any team in this league that has a defense between 320-408 will see a similar effect (not identical as those toward the bottom of the 320 figure will not do as well as those closer to 408) or a difference that is somewhat predictable. The team below and above will see marked differences.

Now to your team...and where I disagree with steelers. Your problem isn't defense. Your problem is picking the wrong seasons and that you will never use all of your defense. Cowens, Dream, West, Outlaw, and Tinsley all may as well be running out there with meat cleavers. Dream and Cowens will stay in foul trouble. Outlaw will too. You picked the wrong Olajuwon season for sure. Cowens is just the wrong player for this league...period. While 35% OReb is going to help with some second chance scoring, 78.1% DReb% (these percentages are for players with the most minutes) is not going to cut it in this league. You will be eaten alive on the defensive glass. Your team will definitely finish bottom quarter in rebounding and there is nothing your team is elite at. Too many minutes, too low efg%, too low CReb%, too many TO's, too many fouls and not enough stocks to off set the damage. You can outscore, you can't gain more possessions, and you can't not foul.

The first season of ODL is a tough place. You will learn and get better. I say all of this not to be mean, but just to help you understand the landscape. Those guys were grew up watching were great, but that isn't the sim. Player A29DC8 is Reggie Theus and those 10 MPG he plays will be brutal. You can't assume he will wake up and be Reggie Theus with his sweet stroke and have a great game. The sim doesn't think like that. "It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." Ok, maybe not quite that bad...but hopefully you get my point.
11/4/2022 12:49 PM
Posted by berkelon on 11/4/2022 10:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by robusk on 11/4/2022 8:36:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jackedjamie on 11/4/2022 8:11:00 AM (view original):
jackedjamie's divison looks really tough. That's a meme, right?
I put my draft list in order of avg wins!
The fourth spot is usually awful in the division draft even if you set a perfect order.

I’d argue the top four in riftonapple’s division is so tough as to make it the most difficult division though.
On the surface, it seems that the division draft is potentially just another way for the rich to get richer. Why would we want the league standings to be so influenced by the ability of governors to correctly rank the teams? Why not just put them in order of avg wins in the past three seasons, and lay them out in a snake fashion, so as to try and get even divisions, or something like that? Not sure I understand the thinking behind the division draft process, other than to give another advantage to governors who win and spend extra time analyzing the whole league / understand the WIS engine better.

Isn't the goal to get the divisions even? I don't think that's what we have currently, at least to my untrained eye. But maybe that isn't the goal...Of course, maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't understand this aspect of the league, at least in terms of parity. I also realize that no system would be perfect, and maybe you've already tried 19 other ways of doing it, and this one is best. I'm probably missing something. That said, I love the league. Cheers.
Personally, I love the discussion of this division understanding that there are five teams that are good and we all know who that 6th team that no one is really worried about is. As I have told my wife for almost 30 years...if you keep your expectations low enough, I will never disappoint you. LOL!
11/4/2022 1:16 PM (edited)
User Avg. Wins O/U Lock?
24kpyrite 43.4 O
benhoidal 53.3 O
bfhendricks 32.5 U
berkelon 43 O
chewy3344 49.7 U
copernicus 42.1 U
dakjd901 19 O
gerryred 40.8 O
jackedjamie 47.1 O X
jethroeg 19.2 U
jhsukow 38.6 O X
Midge 43.3 O
ncih 29.8 U X
PBandJ 23 O
PirateSteve 38.5 O
raggedclaws 44.4 O
reeldeal01 50.4 U
riftonapple 54.5 U X
robusk 51 O
savoygb 32.5 U X
steelers821 37 O
thomcat 37.4 O
ty84moss 53 U X
ysw128 41.6 O
11/4/2022 1:58 PM
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ODL 86 Over/Unders Topic

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