yea i'm very supportive of the idea of a floating baseline prestige that is based on the school's prior, let's say, 30 seasons?

in general, i prefer policy changes that encourage more parity and competitiveness, especially given how opening the floodgates to D1 has made things more challenging for mid-majors relative to high-majors. i'm not 100% sure how this change would affect the extent of competitiveness, but i think on average it would increase competitiveness if executed correctly and, more importantly, make for more interesting dynamicism in the game.

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 1:58:00 PM (view original):
I made this argument over a decade ago...so I guess I'll make it one more time just for fun.

Hoops Dynasty is not a simulator. Hoops Dymasty is a fantasy game. Given that, let's say that the original intent of HD was to be a fusion between the two...any team CAN win a title (most definitely not real life) but the blue bloods have a much easier road to perpetual greatness (very much real life.)

The problem with this is we are now 100 "years" into this supposed simulation/fantasy union. If we went back in real time to the landscape of college athletics around the world wars, it would look nothing like it does today. Even real life evolves.

Hoops Dynasty must have some mechanism to allow for a school to raise itself...permanently...to the ranks of the blue bloods so that this fantasy/dynasty hybrid does not look like a total farse locked in to an arbitrary snapshot in time. I don't care how it is done...floating prestige, coach prestige, etc. but to forever relegate a school because the basketball Gods in 2000 declared, in Solomon-like fashion, that Coppin State (or whoever) will always struggle and that Providence (or whoever) will always be good, forever and ever amen, is asinine.

Call it Hoops Simulator if that is the programming goal. OK, thanks for letting me vent.

I’d be good with this too. Anything with adjustments I’m ok with. But for those that want to just eliminate baseline entirely, I don’t understand. If you want no baseline, as texashick mentioned, play D2 and D3. They are fun games as well. And if the argument against that becomes “well we want to play with teams we have heard of”, those are the teams that you’re trying to push down basically.

One question I wanna ask you all, no one really brings it up much besides me. Is it not somewhat obvious to you guys that the game needs to copycat “real life hoops” somewhat for it to stay successful long term? I mean how many of you think HD would succeed for 20 years if the power 6 teams weren’t the best teams on a consistent basis? I’m curious

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/5/2022 3:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 1:58:00 PM (view original):
I made this argument over a decade ago...so I guess I'll make it one more time just for fun.

Hoops Dynasty is not a simulator. Hoops Dymasty is a fantasy game. Given that, let's say that the original intent of HD was to be a fusion between the two...any team CAN win a title (most definitely not real life) but the blue bloods have a much easier road to perpetual greatness (very much real life.)

The problem with this is we are now 100 "years" into this supposed simulation/fantasy union. If we went back in real time to the landscape of college athletics around the world wars, it would look nothing like it does today. Even real life evolves.

Hoops Dynasty must have some mechanism to allow for a school to raise itself...permanently...to the ranks of the blue bloods so that this fantasy/dynasty hybrid does not look like a total farse locked in to an arbitrary snapshot in time. I don't care how it is done...floating prestige, coach prestige, etc. but to forever relegate a school because the basketball Gods in 2000 declared, in Solomon-like fashion, that Coppin State (or whoever) will always struggle and that Providence (or whoever) will always be good, forever and ever amen, is asinine.

Call it Hoops Simulator if that is the programming goal. OK, thanks for letting me vent.

I’d be good with this too. Anything with adjustments I’m ok with. But for those that want to just eliminate baseline entirely, I don’t understand. If you want no baseline, as texashick mentioned, play D2 and D3. They are fun games as well. And if the argument against that becomes “well we want to play with teams we have heard of”, those are the teams that you’re trying to push down basically.

One question I wanna ask you all, no one really brings it up much besides me. Is it not somewhat obvious to you guys that the game needs to copycat “real life hoops” somewhat for it to stay successful long term? I mean how many of you think HD would succeed for 20 years if the power 6 teams weren’t the best teams on a consistent basis? I’m curious

I'll probably be in a minority here.

The kind of person that is drawn to HD (or really WIS in general) is not the casual fan who would demand that the Kentuckys and UCLAs of the real world be the Kentuckys and UCLAs in this game. I have no stats to back me up but I think we are all educated, majority being highly educated and that our alma maters come from all over the map. So, while we can find enjoyment in a real life mirror environment, we could also find a similar enjoyment coaching our own low prestige alma maters...or local schools where we now live, etc.

For the casual fan who dreams of coaching North Carolina, usually those type of schools have been monopolized by senior coaches for a very long time and don't often come available. Many probably give up and quit before they ever reach their goal.

Therefore, I don't think the current marketing strategy (baseline prestige mirroring a snapshot of real life) has been a successful one and I would not say that HD has "succeeded" over the past 20 years. It has more accruately survived as a legacy product riding on the coattails of the true WIS moneymaker...which is probably simleague baseball.

With 70+% vacancy in DI (or whatever it is,) why not try a different approach? Make it something that can appeal to both the casual fan and to those of us who wouldn't think the end of the world has occurred if a genius coach at a school like Vermont turns them into the next blue blood, with an appropriate baseline prestige to back up the claim?

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 5:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/5/2022 3:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 1:58:00 PM (view original):
I made this argument over a decade ago...so I guess I'll make it one more time just for fun.

Hoops Dynasty is not a simulator. Hoops Dymasty is a fantasy game. Given that, let's say that the original intent of HD was to be a fusion between the two...any team CAN win a title (most definitely not real life) but the blue bloods have a much easier road to perpetual greatness (very much real life.)

The problem with this is we are now 100 "years" into this supposed simulation/fantasy union. If we went back in real time to the landscape of college athletics around the world wars, it would look nothing like it does today. Even real life evolves.

Hoops Dynasty must have some mechanism to allow for a school to raise itself...permanently...to the ranks of the blue bloods so that this fantasy/dynasty hybrid does not look like a total farse locked in to an arbitrary snapshot in time. I don't care how it is done...floating prestige, coach prestige, etc. but to forever relegate a school because the basketball Gods in 2000 declared, in Solomon-like fashion, that Coppin State (or whoever) will always struggle and that Providence (or whoever) will always be good, forever and ever amen, is asinine.

Call it Hoops Simulator if that is the programming goal. OK, thanks for letting me vent.

I’d be good with this too. Anything with adjustments I’m ok with. But for those that want to just eliminate baseline entirely, I don’t understand. If you want no baseline, as texashick mentioned, play D2 and D3. They are fun games as well. And if the argument against that becomes “well we want to play with teams we have heard of”, those are the teams that you’re trying to push down basically.

One question I wanna ask you all, no one really brings it up much besides me. Is it not somewhat obvious to you guys that the game needs to copycat “real life hoops” somewhat for it to stay successful long term? I mean how many of you think HD would succeed for 20 years if the power 6 teams weren’t the best teams on a consistent basis? I’m curious

I'll probably be in a minority here.

The kind of person that is drawn to HD (or really WIS in general) is not the casual fan who would demand that the Kentuckys and UCLAs of the real world be the Kentuckys and UCLAs in this game. I have no stats to back me up but I think we are all educated, majority being highly educated and that our alma maters come from all over the map. So, while we can find enjoyment in a real life mirror environment, we could also find a similar enjoyment coaching our own low prestige alma maters...or local schools where we now live, etc.

For the casual fan who dreams of coaching North Carolina, usually those type of schools have been monopolized by senior coaches for a very long time and don't often come available. Many probably give up and quit before they ever reach their goal.

Therefore, I don't think the current marketing strategy (baseline prestige mirroring a snapshot of real life) has been a successful one and I would not say that HD has "succeeded" over the past 20 years. It has more accruately survived as a legacy product riding on the coattails of the true WIS moneymaker...which is probably simleague baseball.

With 70+% vacancy in DI (or whatever it is,) why not try a different approach? Make it something that can appeal to both the casual fan and to those of us who wouldn't think the end of the world has occurred if a genius coach at a school like Vermont turns them into the next blue blood, with an appropriate baseline prestige to back up the claim?

Really?

fair enough. I’m open to this discussion. I have no alma mater. Never went to college. I’m a basketball lover. Not a spreadsheet lover. Couldn’t figure out a spreadsheet if my life was on the line. I’m sure you can all tell. I always mention, “I hoop”. I don’t try to trick the engine in to something it shouldn’t be doing. I’m a regular joe. And I’m the coolest guy you know. I’m down to earth. You mentioned minority. I’m in the minority in many ways. Some I mentioned above, some I’m not going to mention, and some you can make an educated guess on based on everything you know about Top.

But I’m also damn good at this game. Love the game, love the community. And there’s a lot more of me out there than you may realize.

With all that in mind, half the time I debate a topic, I know the type of person I’m debating with. Guys that aren’t like me for the most part. But I’ve also gotten a lot of support over the years. You may be right in that some coaches here may not care about baseline or anything else. And simply see this game as an numbers on a page. That’s cool, I get it.

I didn’t realize D1 is 70% vacant. I do know there’s a sweet spot. Too many, and guys like me cry about losing rolls. Not enough, and you end up with killer D2 teams. But 70% vacant seems poor.

If I’m wrong about baseline or keeping the game similar to real life as possible, I’ll eat that. I’m just really surprised to hear that if no one cares about that. (Only heard from you so far. So the jury still out. I DO appreciate the response tho)

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/5/2022 3:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 1:58:00 PM (view original):
I made this argument over a decade ago...so I guess I'll make it one more time just for fun.

Hoops Dynasty is not a simulator. Hoops Dymasty is a fantasy game. Given that, let's say that the original intent of HD was to be a fusion between the two...any team CAN win a title (most definitely not real life) but the blue bloods have a much easier road to perpetual greatness (very much real life.)

The problem with this is we are now 100 "years" into this supposed simulation/fantasy union. If we went back in real time to the landscape of college athletics around the world wars, it would look nothing like it does today. Even real life evolves.

Hoops Dynasty must have some mechanism to allow for a school to raise itself...permanently...to the ranks of the blue bloods so that this fantasy/dynasty hybrid does not look like a total farse locked in to an arbitrary snapshot in time. I don't care how it is done...floating prestige, coach prestige, etc. but to forever relegate a school because the basketball Gods in 2000 declared, in Solomon-like fashion, that Coppin State (or whoever) will always struggle and that Providence (or whoever) will always be good, forever and ever amen, is asinine.

Call it Hoops Simulator if that is the programming goal. OK, thanks for letting me vent.

I’d be good with this too. Anything with adjustments I’m ok with. But for those that want to just eliminate baseline entirely, I don’t understand. If you want no baseline, as texashick mentioned, play D2 and D3. They are fun games as well. And if the argument against that becomes “well we want to play with teams we have heard of”, those are the teams that you’re trying to push down basically.

One question I wanna ask you all, no one really brings it up much besides me. Is it not somewhat obvious to you guys that the game needs to copycat “real life hoops” somewhat for it to stay successful long term? I mean how many of you think HD would succeed for 20 years if the power 6 teams weren’t the best teams on a consistent basis? I’m curious

The folks who need HD to look like real life aren’t going to get past the fact that the Big 12 exists, or that the PAC 12 is called the PAC 10 (even though all conferences obviously have to have 12 teams in he current format) to care much about whether there is a baseline prestige tether, or how it functions.

Gil and chap and the rest in tark’s MEAC aren’t turning users off. If anything, they’re encouraging folks to what’s possible in this game. Floating baseline instead of a hard baseline that gets a regular update isn’t going to move the needle on that in the wrong direction at all.

Posted by shoe3 on 11/5/2022 5:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/5/2022 3:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 1:58:00 PM (view original):
I made this argument over a decade ago...so I guess I'll make it one more time just for fun.

Hoops Dynasty is not a simulator. Hoops Dymasty is a fantasy game. Given that, let's say that the original intent of HD was to be a fusion between the two...any team CAN win a title (most definitely not real life) but the blue bloods have a much easier road to perpetual greatness (very much real life.)

The problem with this is we are now 100 "years" into this supposed simulation/fantasy union. If we went back in real time to the landscape of college athletics around the world wars, it would look nothing like it does today. Even real life evolves.

Hoops Dynasty must have some mechanism to allow for a school to raise itself...permanently...to the ranks of the blue bloods so that this fantasy/dynasty hybrid does not look like a total farse locked in to an arbitrary snapshot in time. I don't care how it is done...floating prestige, coach prestige, etc. but to forever relegate a school because the basketball Gods in 2000 declared, in Solomon-like fashion, that Coppin State (or whoever) will always struggle and that Providence (or whoever) will always be good, forever and ever amen, is asinine.

Call it Hoops Simulator if that is the programming goal. OK, thanks for letting me vent.

I’d be good with this too. Anything with adjustments I’m ok with. But for those that want to just eliminate baseline entirely, I don’t understand. If you want no baseline, as texashick mentioned, play D2 and D3. They are fun games as well. And if the argument against that becomes “well we want to play with teams we have heard of”, those are the teams that you’re trying to push down basically.

One question I wanna ask you all, no one really brings it up much besides me. Is it not somewhat obvious to you guys that the game needs to copycat “real life hoops” somewhat for it to stay successful long term? I mean how many of you think HD would succeed for 20 years if the power 6 teams weren’t the best teams on a consistent basis? I’m curious

The folks who need HD to look like real life aren’t going to get past the fact that the Big 12 exists, or that the PAC 12 is called the PAC 10 (even though all conferences obviously have to have 12 teams in he current format) to care much about whether there is a baseline prestige tether, or how it functions.

Gil and chap and the rest in tark’s MEAC aren’t turning users off. If anything, they’re encouraging folks to what’s possible in this game. Floating baseline instead of a hard baseline that gets a regular update isn’t going to move the needle on that in the wrong direction at all.

That’s fair. But I agree with all this. What is done in that MEAC is great for the game. And I’m glad it’s a part of it. I just think if what the MEAC in that world is doing, was expanded to basically everywhere, and it wasn’t a challenge, the game may not benefit as much from what is being accomplished there. It would just be business as usual. If you get my drift

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/5/2022 5:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 5:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/5/2022 3:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 1:58:00 PM (view original):
I made this argument over a decade ago...so I guess I'll make it one more time just for fun.

Hoops Dynasty is not a simulator. Hoops Dymasty is a fantasy game. Given that, let's say that the original intent of HD was to be a fusion between the two...any team CAN win a title (most definitely not real life) but the blue bloods have a much easier road to perpetual greatness (very much real life.)

The problem with this is we are now 100 "years" into this supposed simulation/fantasy union. If we went back in real time to the landscape of college athletics around the world wars, it would look nothing like it does today. Even real life evolves.

Hoops Dynasty must have some mechanism to allow for a school to raise itself...permanently...to the ranks of the blue bloods so that this fantasy/dynasty hybrid does not look like a total farse locked in to an arbitrary snapshot in time. I don't care how it is done...floating prestige, coach prestige, etc. but to forever relegate a school because the basketball Gods in 2000 declared, in Solomon-like fashion, that Coppin State (or whoever) will always struggle and that Providence (or whoever) will always be good, forever and ever amen, is asinine.

Call it Hoops Simulator if that is the programming goal. OK, thanks for letting me vent.

I’d be good with this too. Anything with adjustments I’m ok with. But for those that want to just eliminate baseline entirely, I don’t understand. If you want no baseline, as texashick mentioned, play D2 and D3. They are fun games as well. And if the argument against that becomes “well we want to play with teams we have heard of”, those are the teams that you’re trying to push down basically.

One question I wanna ask you all, no one really brings it up much besides me. Is it not somewhat obvious to you guys that the game needs to copycat “real life hoops” somewhat for it to stay successful long term? I mean how many of you think HD would succeed for 20 years if the power 6 teams weren’t the best teams on a consistent basis? I’m curious

I'll probably be in a minority here.

The kind of person that is drawn to HD (or really WIS in general) is not the casual fan who would demand that the Kentuckys and UCLAs of the real world be the Kentuckys and UCLAs in this game. I have no stats to back me up but I think we are all educated, majority being highly educated and that our alma maters come from all over the map. So, while we can find enjoyment in a real life mirror environment, we could also find a similar enjoyment coaching our own low prestige alma maters...or local schools where we now live, etc.

For the casual fan who dreams of coaching North Carolina, usually those type of schools have been monopolized by senior coaches for a very long time and don't often come available. Many probably give up and quit before they ever reach their goal.

Therefore, I don't think the current marketing strategy (baseline prestige mirroring a snapshot of real life) has been a successful one and I would not say that HD has "succeeded" over the past 20 years. It has more accruately survived as a legacy product riding on the coattails of the true WIS moneymaker...which is probably simleague baseball.

With 70+% vacancy in DI (or whatever it is,) why not try a different approach? Make it something that can appeal to both the casual fan and to those of us who wouldn't think the end of the world has occurred if a genius coach at a school like Vermont turns them into the next blue blood, with an appropriate baseline prestige to back up the claim?

Really?

fair enough. I’m open to this discussion. I have no alma mater. Never went to college. I’m a basketball lover. Not a spreadsheet lover. Couldn’t figure out a spreadsheet if my life was on the line. I’m sure you can all tell. I always mention, “I hoop”. I don’t try to trick the engine in to something it shouldn’t be doing. I’m a regular joe. And I’m the coolest guy you know. I’m down to earth. You mentioned minority. I’m in the minority in many ways. Some I mentioned above, some I’m not going to mention, and some you can make an educated guess on based on everything you know about Top.

But I’m also damn good at this game. Love the game, love the community. And there’s a lot more of me out there than you may realize.

With all that in mind, half the time I debate a topic, I know the type of person I’m debating with. Guys that aren’t like me for the most part. But I’ve also gotten a lot of support over the years. You may be right in that some coaches here may not care about baseline or anything else. And simply see this game as an numbers on a page. That’s cool, I get it.

I didn’t realize D1 is 70% vacant. I do know there’s a sweet spot. Too many, and guys like me cry about losing rolls. Not enough, and you end up with killer D2 teams. But 70% vacant seems poor.

If I’m wrong about baseline or keeping the game similar to real life as possible, I’ll eat that. I’m just really surprised to hear that if no one cares about that. (Only heard from you so far. So the jury still out. I DO appreciate the response tho)

Well, I used one poor word choice and it came back to bite me...sigh.

How about we substitute the word "educated" for "intelligent." You are clearly a keen intellect even if you have no degree hanging on your wall. Your ability to hold high-level conversation and to make a cogent argument (to say nothing of your skill in this game) proves you are anything but a regular joe.

70% was for argument's sake but the DI vacancy is high.

Finally, please forgive my ignorance. I did not understand the reference to Top, other than it is a part of your user name...so I can't make any educated guess whatsoever as to what Top represents. Perhaps you have discussed your real life here on the forums to others but I don't regularly engage on the forums anymore, which I do miss. I think your ethnicity came up years back in some other thread. I just don't care about superficial human differences like skin tone or hair color or accent and the like. That kind of stuff is nothing but a wedge issue to keep people apart. I grew up incredibly poor...no AC (in south Florida), no hot water, the water that was supplied was lead poisioned, no working shower, no hope and no future. It was a housing project and poverty didn't discriminate there, so black/white/hispanic, etc. it didn't a matter a damn because we all were damned. Most of the kids I grew up with are either dead or in prison. I got incredibly lucky and got out on a scholarship but my older brother and sister didn't.

So, you see, most of the guys that I debate with on here aren't like me for the most part as well. That's at least one thing we have in common...

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 8:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/5/2022 5:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 5:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/5/2022 3:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/5/2022 1:58:00 PM (view original):
I made this argument over a decade ago...so I guess I'll make it one more time just for fun.

Hoops Dynasty is not a simulator. Hoops Dymasty is a fantasy game. Given that, let's say that the original intent of HD was to be a fusion between the two...any team CAN win a title (most definitely not real life) but the blue bloods have a much easier road to perpetual greatness (very much real life.)

The problem with this is we are now 100 "years" into this supposed simulation/fantasy union. If we went back in real time to the landscape of college athletics around the world wars, it would look nothing like it does today. Even real life evolves.

Hoops Dynasty must have some mechanism to allow for a school to raise itself...permanently...to the ranks of the blue bloods so that this fantasy/dynasty hybrid does not look like a total farse locked in to an arbitrary snapshot in time. I don't care how it is done...floating prestige, coach prestige, etc. but to forever relegate a school because the basketball Gods in 2000 declared, in Solomon-like fashion, that Coppin State (or whoever) will always struggle and that Providence (or whoever) will always be good, forever and ever amen, is asinine.

Call it Hoops Simulator if that is the programming goal. OK, thanks for letting me vent.

I’d be good with this too. Anything with adjustments I’m ok with. But for those that want to just eliminate baseline entirely, I don’t understand. If you want no baseline, as texashick mentioned, play D2 and D3. They are fun games as well. And if the argument against that becomes “well we want to play with teams we have heard of”, those are the teams that you’re trying to push down basically.

One question I wanna ask you all, no one really brings it up much besides me. Is it not somewhat obvious to you guys that the game needs to copycat “real life hoops” somewhat for it to stay successful long term? I mean how many of you think HD would succeed for 20 years if the power 6 teams weren’t the best teams on a consistent basis? I’m curious

I'll probably be in a minority here.

The kind of person that is drawn to HD (or really WIS in general) is not the casual fan who would demand that the Kentuckys and UCLAs of the real world be the Kentuckys and UCLAs in this game. I have no stats to back me up but I think we are all educated, majority being highly educated and that our alma maters come from all over the map. So, while we can find enjoyment in a real life mirror environment, we could also find a similar enjoyment coaching our own low prestige alma maters...or local schools where we now live, etc.

For the casual fan who dreams of coaching North Carolina, usually those type of schools have been monopolized by senior coaches for a very long time and don't often come available. Many probably give up and quit before they ever reach their goal.

Therefore, I don't think the current marketing strategy (baseline prestige mirroring a snapshot of real life) has been a successful one and I would not say that HD has "succeeded" over the past 20 years. It has more accruately survived as a legacy product riding on the coattails of the true WIS moneymaker...which is probably simleague baseball.

With 70+% vacancy in DI (or whatever it is,) why not try a different approach? Make it something that can appeal to both the casual fan and to those of us who wouldn't think the end of the world has occurred if a genius coach at a school like Vermont turns them into the next blue blood, with an appropriate baseline prestige to back up the claim?

Really?

fair enough. I’m open to this discussion. I have no alma mater. Never went to college. I’m a basketball lover. Not a spreadsheet lover. Couldn’t figure out a spreadsheet if my life was on the line. I’m sure you can all tell. I always mention, “I hoop”. I don’t try to trick the engine in to something it shouldn’t be doing. I’m a regular joe. And I’m the coolest guy you know. I’m down to earth. You mentioned minority. I’m in the minority in many ways. Some I mentioned above, some I’m not going to mention, and some you can make an educated guess on based on everything you know about Top.

But I’m also damn good at this game. Love the game, love the community. And there’s a lot more of me out there than you may realize.

With all that in mind, half the time I debate a topic, I know the type of person I’m debating with. Guys that aren’t like me for the most part. But I’ve also gotten a lot of support over the years. You may be right in that some coaches here may not care about baseline or anything else. And simply see this game as an numbers on a page. That’s cool, I get it.

I didn’t realize D1 is 70% vacant. I do know there’s a sweet spot. Too many, and guys like me cry about losing rolls. Not enough, and you end up with killer D2 teams. But 70% vacant seems poor.

If I’m wrong about baseline or keeping the game similar to real life as possible, I’ll eat that. I’m just really surprised to hear that if no one cares about that. (Only heard from you so far. So the jury still out. I DO appreciate the response tho)

Well, I used one poor word choice and it came back to bite me...sigh.

How about we substitute the word "educated" for "intelligent." You are clearly a keen intellect even if you have no degree hanging on your wall. Your ability to hold high-level conversation and to make a cogent argument (to say nothing of your skill in this game) proves you are anything but a regular joe.

70% was for argument's sake but the DI vacancy is high.

Finally, please forgive my ignorance. I did not understand the reference to Top, other than it is a part of your user name...so I can't make any educated guess whatsoever as to what Top represents. Perhaps you have discussed your real life here on the forums to others but I don't regularly engage on the forums anymore, which I do miss. I think your ethnicity came up years back in some other thread. I just don't care about superficial human differences like skin tone or hair color or accent and the like. That kind of stuff is nothing but a wedge issue to keep people apart. I grew up incredibly poor...no AC (in south Florida), no hot water, the water that was supplied was lead poisioned, no working shower, no hope and no future. It was a housing project and poverty didn't discriminate there, so black/white/hispanic, etc. it didn't a matter a damn because we all were damned. Most of the kids I grew up with are either dead or in prison. I got incredibly lucky and got out on a scholarship but my older brother and sister didn't.

So, you see, most of the guys that I debate with on here aren't like me for the most part as well. That's at least one thing we have in common...

I’m glad you responded to the first one. No worries! Hope to hear from more people as well.

I don't have a strong connection to seeing the big schools having to be at the top. Not sure how many people out there find that really important like TopDogg, but I'd be curious to know too. I only play D3, so I am doing what was suggested above. But I would like the idea of taking over a big D1 program at some point. And I can still like that without having the baseline prestige in there--if the team I want sucks, I'll work on building them back up. Sounds cool to me.

When I look at the signup page, new players have no idea what the D1 landscape looks like when they go through that process and select their D3 team. And then they're at D3 for at least a season or maybe a lot more, so I would assume they're mostly focused on how their D3 team is doing, not D1 dynamics. Or they quickly jump to D1 and struggle a whole bunch with a small D1 school with low prestige. And at that point, I gotta figure they know whether they find the game fun (or are struggling like many new users do, I know I did at first too). So I think a combination of a coach's early success, their connection with the community, and their interest in learning the strategy & details of the game are the most influential factors in whether they keep playing (none of which is related to which teams in D1 are the most successful).

My appeal is sticking with a program long term and bringing it success over the long term. I don't like the idea of a team having inherent success because of its name... but if the baseline prestige was a 20-40 season rolling period like I've heard some suggest, I would be more onboard with it, and I wouldn't be super opposed to even blending that with a more modernized baseline prestige for each of the schools. But the current version of baseline prestige isn't my cup of tea.

I don’t mean that I care about it on a personal level. It is my preference for sure. But I mean as a business model.

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/6/2022 7:52:00 AM (view original):
I don’t mean that I care about it on a personal level. It is my preference for sure. But I mean as a business model.

Cool, understood. And from what I said above regarding my perspective on the new user experience, I don’t find the current version of baseline prestige needing to be a key priority in the business model.

I kind of like the baseline prestige and would be open to some minor tinkers to the fluctuating prestige around it. However, I do think it's fairly realistic. Think of the real life 00-08 range of Bucknell, they had a decade of just around .500-.550 mediocrity then got to 20 wins for three years, snuck in some upsets, made it to round 2, got ranked one time in there. Since then it's been some lean years of putridity and some nice 20+ win seasons. In other words that three year window didn't catapult them into excellence, it marginally improved their program for the next decade. D baseline prestige seems about right historically but maybe a stretch could get them to C- or sustained stretch to C flat.

String together 5+ 18-23 win seasons, at least 3-4 Conf Ch or CT Ch in that window, I'd like to see that team in the sim get a chance to have some sustained prestige to stay competitive in recruiting. Then again in real life I am not sure how many times a top recruit would sign with a program like Bucknell over a Big 10 or Big 12 school.

So I guess I wouldn't mind either 1) a tinkering with the baseline prestige or 2) perhaps its more a tinkering with the way preferences in recruits interplay with prestige so that school's with lower prestige can have a shot based on preferences more than they do now.

Posted by WarLeagle on 11/6/2022 12:43:00 PM (view original):
I kind of like the baseline prestige and would be open to some minor tinkers to the fluctuating prestige around it. However, I do think it's fairly realistic. Think of the real life 00-08 range of Bucknell, they had a decade of just around .500-.550 mediocrity then got to 20 wins for three years, snuck in some upsets, made it to round 2, got ranked one time in there. Since then it's been some lean years of putridity and some nice 20+ win seasons. In other words that three year window didn't catapult them into excellence, it marginally improved their program for the next decade. D baseline prestige seems about right historically but maybe a stretch could get them to C- or sustained stretch to C flat.

String together 5+ 18-23 win seasons, at least 3-4 Conf Ch or CT Ch in that window, I'd like to see that team in the sim get a chance to have some sustained prestige to stay competitive in recruiting. Then again in real life I am not sure how many times a top recruit would sign with a program like Bucknell over a Big 10 or Big 12 school.

So I guess I wouldn't mind either 1) a tinkering with the baseline prestige or 2) perhaps its more a tinkering with the way preferences in recruits interplay with prestige so that school's with lower prestige can have a shot based on preferences more than they do now.

Now I'm going to beat a dead horse...but we are not in total diagreement.

100 years ago, UCLA basketball sucked. They couldn't get out of their own way through the late 1940s. Then some dude named John Wooden came along...

Bucknell in real life might stink now but what will their team be like in 2100? Nobody knows. As the programming stands currently, we are in HD season 100+ but the prestige is rigidly locked into season 1. It does not allow for a real life John Wooden to come along and permanently raise mediocrity to greatness.

That needs to change.

Posted by gomiami1972 on 11/6/2022 1:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by WarLeagle on 11/6/2022 12:43:00 PM (view original):
I kind of like the baseline prestige and would be open to some minor tinkers to the fluctuating prestige around it. However, I do think it's fairly realistic. Think of the real life 00-08 range of Bucknell, they had a decade of just around .500-.550 mediocrity then got to 20 wins for three years, snuck in some upsets, made it to round 2, got ranked one time in there. Since then it's been some lean years of putridity and some nice 20+ win seasons. In other words that three year window didn't catapult them into excellence, it marginally improved their program for the next decade. D baseline prestige seems about right historically but maybe a stretch could get them to C- or sustained stretch to C flat.

String together 5+ 18-23 win seasons, at least 3-4 Conf Ch or CT Ch in that window, I'd like to see that team in the sim get a chance to have some sustained prestige to stay competitive in recruiting. Then again in real life I am not sure how many times a top recruit would sign with a program like Bucknell over a Big 10 or Big 12 school.

So I guess I wouldn't mind either 1) a tinkering with the baseline prestige or 2) perhaps its more a tinkering with the way preferences in recruits interplay with prestige so that school's with lower prestige can have a shot based on preferences more than they do now.

Now I'm going to beat a dead horse...but we are not in total diagreement.

100 years ago, UCLA basketball sucked. They couldn't get out of their own way through the late 1940s. Then some dude named John Wooden came along...

Bucknell in real life might stink now but what will their team be like in 2100? Nobody knows. As the programming stands currently, we are in HD season 100+ but the prestige is rigidly locked into season 1. It does not allow for a real life John Wooden to come along and permanently raise mediocrity to greatness.

That needs to change.

Yes, and also, the thing Bucknell wants to do IRL is move into a more prestigious conference, where they are playing more prestigious opponents on a regular basis. Better exposure, better prestige (as long as they don’t suck there of course). That’s why being able to move teams around would also be ideal.

But even if that’s not possible, lifting the hard cap ceiling of baseline prestige would make building a program like that more palatable for more folks. One issue with a place like the MEAC and building other small conferences is that it is expensive for coaches who don’t have a pile of credits. Those conferences don’t have 5-6 guaranteed NT spots. In many years, it will only be 1 until the teams are mature - and even in the mighty MEAC, there are going to be years when they only get a couple in, most likely. So it’s not as much about reducing the challenge for me - it’s always going to be a challenge building a program in a place like the MEAC, especially with the great coaches there; it’s about accessibility.

One thing that needs to be defined, is “prestige”. We mentioned Bucknell. There’s VCU, George Washington, Butler, Wichita St, a few others. All those teams turned in some historic runs somewhat. And for a while we’re the talk of the town. Since then, no one has heard from them.

HD seasons are a lot faster. And again, I know it’s a game. But those schools deserved an A prestige for a minute. But no more than 60 seconds. Because to me, prestige is about the long haul. Not what you’ve done over the past 4-6 seasons. To ME, prestige doesn’t even really need to change much itself.

What I’d prefer to see is something along the lines of what WarLeagle said. Some sort of way to incorporate preferences more, and they’d be more specific somehow to fit the game. I hate to say this out loud, but maybe make prestige a much smaller factor in recruiting, for gaming purposes and only have it as a factor AFTER the effort score is calculated, and prestige can then tilt the odds (for example, leaving it out of the entire effort score, so two team’s that put exact equal effort would be at 50/50 and THEN prestige would factor in. So an A would tilt the odds to 60/40 in favor of a C. I know some will say that’s how it is now. But it’s not really. Prestige is a factor from the minute we put AP on a player. So one team appears to be in the lead. But if you eliminate prestige as a factor until the roll happens, a C team can keep up or even lead early on against an A team. Maybe it turns out the same, I don’t know. But there’s a way to adjust it correctly I’m sure).

maybe some type of way to give a boost during the CURRENT season of recruiting to a team playing above their expected prestige, and a decrease to teams playing below their expected prestige level, outside of the prestige rating itself.

maybe I’m just spinning in circles. I don’t know. But there’s a way to do everything better than it is now.