Posted by bdashkiwsky on 11/17/2022 11:48:00 PM (view original):
Cimmy and Doogan were 1-2 on the Smith all time wins board the entire time I was in the world (5+ real life years). Well before discovering what the withdraw redshirt did. Not sure if they've ever met up in the championship before but it was cool to see conclude this dramatic season (and most world mates complain about it). They should be missed

Maybe you mean gone. They should be gone.

And if you're arguing that they were brilliant coaches who didn't need to cheat, well, you've got it at least half right.

So, just to see what there is to see, I came out of long Smit retirement to take over St Joes.

Trying to look through recruits to see what I can see. May be that recruiting actions have all been wiped out.

Will say more about anything interesting I find after recruiting cycle 2 is complete.

And it will be interesting playing with a few great players who remain and whoever I can scrounge up now to fill the roster......46 seasons of retirement.....I hear there is a kid who may or may not play named Jimmy who could be a difference maker here at Hickory

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/18/2022 3:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/17/2022 5:28:00 PM (view original):
Such a fitting end to the season! While some will view this as further evidence of cheating (my conference mates have taken this stance), zero meaningful recruits were ever informed of their redshirt status. The HD gods were clearly smiling down on the railroaded coaches. What a performance from St. Joe's - The Hawk will never die!

Some’m like that.

I’d say probably 90%+ view this is more evidence so to speak. It definitely doesn’t help the other direction (Although a case could be made it means nothing). But I’m curious how you would know if the redshirt thing was or was not a factor? 1) so these coaches all used this. But 4 seasons prior to getting caught, all 4 of them stopped and never did it again, only to be caught later for something they ‘used to do’ a long time ago? That’s hard to believe. 2) Even saying that “zero meaningful recruits were ever informed….” tells me that you’re still not grasping the ripple effect this has, or the magnitude of the impact it has. It’s not ONLY about “redshirt trick used on this player, player signed”. Each time it was used it created a situation where other coaches see a scenario, and react in a manner because of it. And the coaches competing against that coach makes different moves, and so on. 3) meaningful or not, the difference between a title contender and a team that misses the NT could be just an average 500-600 ovr type of player. Just to hold bench minutes when needed. Or that one last minute signing with 35 green PER that turns into a bench stud or Star. Or anything. This is a game of inches whether people see it that way or not. 4) how do you actually know what’s what? Did both coaches in the finals tell you they remember every step of recruiting for the past 4 seasons? (That could be possible, I remember way too many things in HD than I probably should. But on a side comment, if the answer is YES and those coaches did remember every step of recruiting for the last 4 seasons, then that tells me that coach is fully competent enough to know how big of an advantage this thing was. So now we’re full circle back at square one again)

I’m plenty cool with the fact they/he won out. There is some comedy to it, no doubt! I keep going back to the Barry Bonds thing. And you sound like the guy that says “well, steroids didn’t help his hand eye coordination. And he still had to swing the bat with timing and angle. Not just strength”. And I sound like the guy that says “it doesn’t matter, he wasn’t hitting 73 homers without it, only WITH the cheating” (funny thing is tho, when it comes to Bonds I am in the group that defends him, ironically).

I’m turning into gill more and more every day with these posts. I need a vacation! But as far as responding to your comment, I’m cool with that sim title! And my questions/comments are sincere. Not being a butthead. Just curious your view on some of that gibberish I wrote above.

Agree with this 100%

i agree with dogg too, except about the one 600 player being the difference between making NT and NC contender, that is over stating it. but 100% agree that this kind of action has a significant direct impact with significant ripples as well. if you recruit in high d1, it is pretty clear how much the early cycles matter, which is to say a ton. any advantage in those cycles is pretty big. i don't think its remotely debatable, at least among those who are actually in the know about d1 recruits, whether using this gimmick 100 times in a calendar year could have a rather substantial impact on the quality of teams.

that said, these two sim teams going to the title game might be the single greatest thing to happen in HD history. was it doogan's team who won or one of the other guys?

Posted by metsmax on 11/18/2022 6:23:00 AM (view original):
So, just to see what there is to see, I came out of long Smit retirement to take over St Joes.

Trying to look through recruits to see what I can see. May be that recruiting actions have all been wiped out.

Will say more about anything interesting I find after recruiting cycle 2 is complete.

I don’t think you’ll see anything tho. Weren’t they busted before recruiting started? I can’t remember. Also, I know this may be too much to ask, but I was hopeful no one even applied for those jobs! But I didn’t expect it to actually play out that way.

And Gil, what I meant about the 600 ovr player potentially being the difference on a title team, I just meant there’s teams out there that have 7 or 8 studs and no depth. And that one extra depth chart player just might get them over an edge. I didn’t mean as if a player like that would push a team into a higher tier because of talent. Or let’s say in the case of a press team, signing a 12th man with 90 ATH/DEF/ST with 50 SPD and 20 everything else, as a freshman. That player can easily be free. And could help keep a press team fresh

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/18/2022 2:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 11/18/2022 6:23:00 AM (view original):
So, just to see what there is to see, I came out of long Smit retirement to take over St Joes.

Trying to look through recruits to see what I can see. May be that recruiting actions have all been wiped out.

Will say more about anything interesting I find after recruiting cycle 2 is complete.

I don’t think you’ll see anything tho. Weren’t they busted before recruiting started? I can’t remember. Also, I know this may be too much to ask, but I was hopeful no one even applied for those jobs! But I didn’t expect it to actually play out that way.

And Gil, what I meant about the 600 ovr player potentially being the difference on a title team, I just meant there’s teams out there that have 7 or 8 studs and no depth. And that one extra depth chart player just might get them over an edge. I didn’t mean as if a player like that would push a team into a higher tier because of talent. Or let’s say in the case of a press team, signing a 12th man with 90 ATH/DEF/ST with 50 SPD and 20 everything else, as a freshman. That player can easily be free. And could help keep a press team fresh

i got you, i just had to qualify my 100% support for the rest of the comment, because even the most extreme of those scenarios isn't going to split NC contender from missing the NT. can it be important, sure. but we are in full agreement about the general impact of the redshirt thing, direct and ripples both, i believe.

putting some St Joe actual recruiting info in its own thread

https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=535534&page=1#postBox

Posted by almersk on 11/17/2022 5:28:00 PM (view original):
Such a fitting end to the season! While some will view this as further evidence of cheating (my conference mates have taken this stance), zero meaningful recruits were ever informed of their redshirt status. The HD gods were clearly smiling down on the railroaded coaches. What a performance from St. Joe's - The Hawk will never die!

the statement zero meaningful recruits ... appears to be incorrect based on the one season of one team we can see,

hi

SIM AI coaches the Mississippi team that was left without its banned coach - and gets National COY

Posted by fd343ny on 12/2/2022 6:08:00 AM (view original):
SIM AI coaches the Mississippi team that was left without its banned coach - and gets National COY

I was thinking about this and I think it might just be a quirk in how NCOY is calculated because I suppose this is technically SIM AI's first season with the team and somewhere I read that the coaching awards are about improvement relative to the coach's season before.

Just to drum up some drama, I propose that at least one of us cheats every few months. Who's going first?

Posted by mlitney on 12/2/2022 10:10:00 AM (view original):
Just to drum up some drama, I propose that at least one of us cheats every few months. Who's going first?

Well we can't just confess to cheating, that wouldn't be any fun!

Need to gather a list of suspects and conduct a whodunnit investigation.

Posted by bpielcmc on 12/2/2022 6:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 12/2/2022 6:08:00 AM (view original):
SIM AI coaches the Mississippi team that was left without its banned coach - and gets National COY

I was thinking about this and I think it might just be a quirk in how NCOY is calculated because I suppose this is technically SIM AI's first season with the team and somewhere I read that the coaching awards are about improvement relative to the coach's season before.

not sure if it's improvement from season before. Here are my last two seasons in Naismith, where I won NCOY this season for D2

https://ibb.co/9Nv7gz8