It's been fun but it's time... Topic

I'm kind of torn here, because (at least based on the information Majique has shared) a couple of these seem like complaining because a coach is better at the game, or just bugs, but there's a couple that do feel like exploits that shouldn't be in the game.

#1 to me just sounds like superior coaching, at least from the information provided. I've long said GD is a math game dressed up in football pads, and the quicker you can come to terms with the fact the gameplanning/roster decisions that give you the most in game success will not always follow football logic, the quicker you will be able to compete. This is true with any game that doesn't have "stick skill" involved. The "skill" in sim games is figuring out how to manipulate the engine to give yourself as many/more successful probable outcomes in any given situation. "mastering the ones and zeros of the digital game" is literally where the skill gap in a sim game lies.

While, I agree sometimes possessions tend to feel scripted, there's many of times where based of the first handful of plays on the Wiscast I know my opponent is very likely going to score, and I'm just waiting to see if it's 3 or 7. I think the most likely answer to this isn't my opponent is exploiting a loophole, but is because the possession is "scripted". Again, this is a math game, we all want to view it as "real" football and imagine our little pixelated playmakers running around on the field when we watch the cast, but in reality it's nothing more than a series of dice rolls that GD then turns into a description of a football game. Rather than believing some coaches have found some "secret exploit" it's way more likely the algorithm has done its dice rolls and then sets up what it feel to be a "compelling" play by play after, and since we've all watched hundreds of casts by now we've picked up on the patterns/idiosyncrasies that GD uses, particularly the ones that make less sense, to the point where we're pretty good at predicting the outcome of a play in any given scenario.

I'm aware of no "secret formula" or loophole to exploit the algorithm into giving me succes no matter who has the ball, however I have found ways to better understand the "zeros and ones" to give myself more favorable probable outcomes. Many of these make little football sense, my offense is nowhere near realistic, but it's no loophole I've been able to exploit, it's just what I've found has worked based on lots of trial and error (and getting my butt handed to me by a few very good coaches which forced me to get better and/or shamelessly steal what they were using to beat me).

I could be wrong, and maybe Majique just doesn't have all the information here, and that's why it comes across as more "skill" than "exploit" but I just see #1 as complaining about people being better at the game.

#2 is whatever, it's obviously not realistic but been in the game forever, and is relatively common knowledge. Pay any sort of attention to your roster and you'll figure this out quickly, plus there's plenty of threads on the forums discussing it. Get everyone on your roster 30% PT, you should've been doing that prior, but if not I'm glad it's in the open now.

#4 seems like a bug more than a loophole, and while it'd be nice for it to be fixed, it's a hyper specific situation that provides a very small benefit. More nuisance than issue

#3 and #5 are definitely problems that I'm glad have been brought to light and need addressing. As someone else mentioned GD is a talent acquisition game primarily and these aren't better "understanding the algorithm" like #1 seems, they're simply exploits to give yourself an advantage in acquiring talent. While #5 to me is the bigger issue because it can be used across all levels of play, #3 is a big problem for those playing at the D2 and D3 levels.

Being able to gain advantages but avoid penalties for certain recruiting actions, or getting the benefit of an actions without having to pay for it needs to be removed from the game.
7/7/2023 2:02 PM
there are other sims out there that are free and have devs that actually are trying to create a legit product. DM me
7/8/2023 4:30 AM
I think BenKallenbac nailed it on #1. At least in the way it has been described, this sounds like good coaching. This is a sim engine. If you want to win at this game, its not about ramping up your football knowledge, its about ramping up your knowledge of how the sim works.

I am relatively new to this game, (been playing 3 real life years) but I like to think that Ive had a good amount of success. I can say that everything I know about this game is from the time I put in to learning it. I have spent hours reading through older posts on message boards where great coaches have provided tips and tricks. I have asked a ton of questions of other successful coaches. And then I experimented my *** off. For some time, I had multiple teams and I would have each team run a different type of offense and then have each offense run a different type of play on each down slightly changing the variables (pass distance, distribution %, etc) and then monitoring the results in the play by play to figure out what worked and why. For the most part, Im now pretty much on autopilot now that Ive found a good formula but it took me a long time to figure it out.

IMO, the absolute #1 key to this game is understanding the coverage formula. If you can figure out who will cover who in certain scenarios and understand how that changes when another variable is introduced (blitzing, putting men on the line, sending a receiver to a different depth or changing the pass distribution), you are going to then know how to dictate matchups. If a coach knows how to do this better than another coach, good for them. If not, you can either put in the effort to figure it out or dont.

Unless this "loophole" works 100% of the time regardless of player skill and other variables, then I think it's short sighted. Some coaches just have your number. I consider myself a good coach, and some coaches have had or still do have my number. That said, there is no coach that Ive never beaten. Any time a coach seems to have my number, it re-energizes me to go in and figure out why, do some more experimentation in matchups with that coach to figure out how to stop them. I can say with 100% certainty that I dont cheat or use any weird loopholes. And if I can defeat, or at least compete with every other great coach in the game, I dont understand how #1 can be considered cheating. B/c it hasnt worked against me or if it did, I figured out how to stop it.

If we are defining "loophole" as something that isnt realistic or like real football, we are only hurting ourselves. We know this isnt real football, and its very difficult to make any SIM engine seem like real football, but I think GD does a pretty decent job of it, especially considering how old the code is. Every year, EA sports spends millions to upgrade their Madden game with state of the art technology and every year there are stupid and unrealistic things that the fans ***** about.

Unless we have some more specific details or evidence of its success, I struggle with how this can be called a loophole
7/8/2023 10:53 AM
Posted by realist9900 on 7/6/2023 3:56:00 PM (view original):
#1 and #5 are a very big deal.

#1 isn't coaches understanding the game at an Elite level. That's laughable. More like pressing the X button 3x fast while holding the joystick forward at the same time to get a special ability. In the PlayStation world, that's known as a cheat code.

#5 is a massive advantage.

This would explain some of the baffling things I've seen that didn't make sense.
#5 makes me think back and scratch my head on some baffling recruiting also. Some recruiting head scratchers has a lot to do with why I am down to only one team now. At one time I would generally have 5 or more.
7/8/2023 5:47 PM (edited)
Posted by S_Cottrell23 on 7/8/2023 10:53:00 AM (view original):
I think BenKallenbac nailed it on #1. At least in the way it has been described, this sounds like good coaching. This is a sim engine. If you want to win at this game, its not about ramping up your football knowledge, its about ramping up your knowledge of how the sim works.

I am relatively new to this game, (been playing 3 real life years) but I like to think that Ive had a good amount of success. I can say that everything I know about this game is from the time I put in to learning it. I have spent hours reading through older posts on message boards where great coaches have provided tips and tricks. I have asked a ton of questions of other successful coaches. And then I experimented my *** off. For some time, I had multiple teams and I would have each team run a different type of offense and then have each offense run a different type of play on each down slightly changing the variables (pass distance, distribution %, etc) and then monitoring the results in the play by play to figure out what worked and why. For the most part, Im now pretty much on autopilot now that Ive found a good formula but it took me a long time to figure it out.

IMO, the absolute #1 key to this game is understanding the coverage formula. If you can figure out who will cover who in certain scenarios and understand how that changes when another variable is introduced (blitzing, putting men on the line, sending a receiver to a different depth or changing the pass distribution), you are going to then know how to dictate matchups. If a coach knows how to do this better than another coach, good for them. If not, you can either put in the effort to figure it out or dont.

Unless this "loophole" works 100% of the time regardless of player skill and other variables, then I think it's short sighted. Some coaches just have your number. I consider myself a good coach, and some coaches have had or still do have my number. That said, there is no coach that Ive never beaten. Any time a coach seems to have my number, it re-energizes me to go in and figure out why, do some more experimentation in matchups with that coach to figure out how to stop them. I can say with 100% certainty that I dont cheat or use any weird loopholes. And if I can defeat, or at least compete with every other great coach in the game, I dont understand how #1 can be considered cheating. B/c it hasnt worked against me or if it did, I figured out how to stop it.

If we are defining "loophole" as something that isnt realistic or like real football, we are only hurting ourselves. We know this isnt real football, and its very difficult to make any SIM engine seem like real football, but I think GD does a pretty decent job of it, especially considering how old the code is. Every year, EA sports spends millions to upgrade their Madden game with state of the art technology and every year there are stupid and unrealistic things that the fans ***** about.

Unless we have some more specific details or evidence of its success, I struggle with how this can be called a loophole
I fully believe you on what you are saying about putting a ton of time into figuring things out and understanding the nuances of the SIM engine. Kudos as most are not willing to do that...for various reasons.

Question: Once you got to the point of just "on autopilot" and know you just have a better formula than 99% of coaches...is that fun? I feel like it would be for an initial period and then it would be come zero gratification. It's an earned huge advantage, but it's nothing you're actively doing.

Is it only fun when you are going up against the 1 or 2 other coaches in the world that have similar insight?

Just curious
7/8/2023 12:20 PM
This game is not just about talent acquisition.

Yes, it's important, but I know from experience, there are coaches who have consistently less talent than I do, who consistently beat me. Clearly they are better at specific aspects of the game than I. Whether it's through loopholes, or through gained insight, is for me to wonder I guess. LOL
7/8/2023 1:01 PM
A lot of long responses from everyone except amdin.
If they can't fix the code then admiin should make a detailed video how to guide that goes over these "loopholes".
I know some will complain that they had to spend years learning this. But, if you look at all of the people who leave this game in the first five season, one thing that might help is if they can at least see how they can improve their teams.

Where is admin?
7/8/2023 1:23 PM
Posted by airraiddevil on 7/8/2023 12:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by S_Cottrell23 on 7/8/2023 10:53:00 AM (view original):
I think BenKallenbac nailed it on #1. At least in the way it has been described, this sounds like good coaching. This is a sim engine. If you want to win at this game, its not about ramping up your football knowledge, its about ramping up your knowledge of how the sim works.

I am relatively new to this game, (been playing 3 real life years) but I like to think that Ive had a good amount of success. I can say that everything I know about this game is from the time I put in to learning it. I have spent hours reading through older posts on message boards where great coaches have provided tips and tricks. I have asked a ton of questions of other successful coaches. And then I experimented my *** off. For some time, I had multiple teams and I would have each team run a different type of offense and then have each offense run a different type of play on each down slightly changing the variables (pass distance, distribution %, etc) and then monitoring the results in the play by play to figure out what worked and why. For the most part, Im now pretty much on autopilot now that Ive found a good formula but it took me a long time to figure it out.

IMO, the absolute #1 key to this game is understanding the coverage formula. If you can figure out who will cover who in certain scenarios and understand how that changes when another variable is introduced (blitzing, putting men on the line, sending a receiver to a different depth or changing the pass distribution), you are going to then know how to dictate matchups. If a coach knows how to do this better than another coach, good for them. If not, you can either put in the effort to figure it out or dont.

Unless this "loophole" works 100% of the time regardless of player skill and other variables, then I think it's short sighted. Some coaches just have your number. I consider myself a good coach, and some coaches have had or still do have my number. That said, there is no coach that Ive never beaten. Any time a coach seems to have my number, it re-energizes me to go in and figure out why, do some more experimentation in matchups with that coach to figure out how to stop them. I can say with 100% certainty that I dont cheat or use any weird loopholes. And if I can defeat, or at least compete with every other great coach in the game, I dont understand how #1 can be considered cheating. B/c it hasnt worked against me or if it did, I figured out how to stop it.

If we are defining "loophole" as something that isnt realistic or like real football, we are only hurting ourselves. We know this isnt real football, and its very difficult to make any SIM engine seem like real football, but I think GD does a pretty decent job of it, especially considering how old the code is. Every year, EA sports spends millions to upgrade their Madden game with state of the art technology and every year there are stupid and unrealistic things that the fans ***** about.

Unless we have some more specific details or evidence of its success, I struggle with how this can be called a loophole
I fully believe you on what you are saying about putting a ton of time into figuring things out and understanding the nuances of the SIM engine. Kudos as most are not willing to do that...for various reasons.

Question: Once you got to the point of just "on autopilot" and know you just have a better formula than 99% of coaches...is that fun? I feel like it would be for an initial period and then it would be come zero gratification. It's an earned huge advantage, but it's nothing you're actively doing.

Is it only fun when you are going up against the 1 or 2 other coaches in the world that have similar insight?

Just curious
Yes it’s definitely still fun, and I do still learn things just not as much as I used to. And it’s definitely more than 1-2 coaches that give me trouble. I’d say usually in the 2nd round of the playoffs or definitely the 3rd round it starts to get interesting. Especially in D1, b/c D1 has the biggest population of really good coaches so I enjoy D1 the most At the moment
7/8/2023 2:30 PM
SC is probably the best gameplanner I have ever seen in creating favorable matchups and doing more with less. I've never felt like he's cheating because he can scheme explosives sometimes. He is just really damn good at this game.

We have several of those guys in the BEAST, It makes it a hell of a lot of fun playing those coaches. Learn the game and then seek out the best competition possible. You'll realize you don't know as much as you think you do when you do, and you will have to make additional tweaks along the way to hang with them.
7/8/2023 10:14 PM
I guess my confusion with 'matchups' is how I understood the game works. I have coached for many years. The goal is to find the weak link, say a CB, and isolate him vs your best receiver. Pretty basic stuff that works when the defense plays man.

I thought in GD everything was zone. All offensive line ratings combined vs defensive line ratings combined. DBs play zone and their ratings were combined vs receiver ratings. etc etc So the pbp results when listing a players name doesn't mean that player actually made the play since it was a team effort at the point of attack.

I have asked for clarification on this since I started playing the game.
7/9/2023 1:13 PM
Posted by realist9900 on 7/9/2023 1:13:00 PM (view original):
I guess my confusion with 'matchups' is how I understood the game works. I have coached for many years. The goal is to find the weak link, say a CB, and isolate him vs your best receiver. Pretty basic stuff that works when the defense plays man.

I thought in GD everything was zone. All offensive line ratings combined vs defensive line ratings combined. DBs play zone and their ratings were combined vs receiver ratings. etc etc So the pbp results when listing a players name doesn't mean that player actually made the play since it was a team effort at the point of attack.

I have asked for clarification on this since I started playing the game.
Good question.

Zones apparently exist but we also know from the pbp that at some point individual defenders do get matched up with individual receiving targets.
7/9/2023 4:38 PM (edited)
Posted by narcotico on 7/9/2023 4:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by realist9900 on 7/9/2023 1:13:00 PM (view original):
I guess my confusion with 'matchups' is how I understood the game works. I have coached for many years. The goal is to find the weak link, say a CB, and isolate him vs your best receiver. Pretty basic stuff that works when the defense plays man.

I thought in GD everything was zone. All offensive line ratings combined vs defensive line ratings combined. DBs play zone and their ratings were combined vs receiver ratings. etc etc So the pbp results when listing a players name doesn't mean that player actually made the play since it was a team effort at the point of attack.

I have asked for clarification on this since I started playing the game.
Good question.

Zones apparently exist but we also know from the pbp that at some point individual defenders do get matched up with individual receiving targets.

Recognizing that all pass defenses are zone-based, how does the engine determine which receivers are in which DB's zone? Ultimately, is there a way for me to target or create a match up with individual defensive backs? (helgi - Hall of Famer - 3:14 PM)

Currently there is no way to put a DB on a specific receiver. The coverage is based on the zone and the defenders are chosen randomly if they are in the coverage zone.

7/9/2023 9:48 PM
one thing to keep in mind

i mean i always do

is the baseball sim. the results of a game are generated, the PBP is tacked on later

i do not know it to be true but i believe it to be



so my thinking, as much as i enjoy the all new Simcast!

is it's a pig purse

don read too much truth into the play-by-play
7/9/2023 10:04 PM
Posted by jhunterz on 7/9/2023 9:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by narcotico on 7/9/2023 4:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by realist9900 on 7/9/2023 1:13:00 PM (view original):
I guess my confusion with 'matchups' is how I understood the game works. I have coached for many years. The goal is to find the weak link, say a CB, and isolate him vs your best receiver. Pretty basic stuff that works when the defense plays man.

I thought in GD everything was zone. All offensive line ratings combined vs defensive line ratings combined. DBs play zone and their ratings were combined vs receiver ratings. etc etc So the pbp results when listing a players name doesn't mean that player actually made the play since it was a team effort at the point of attack.

I have asked for clarification on this since I started playing the game.
Good question.

Zones apparently exist but we also know from the pbp that at some point individual defenders do get matched up with individual receiving targets.

Recognizing that all pass defenses are zone-based, how does the engine determine which receivers are in which DB's zone? Ultimately, is there a way for me to target or create a match up with individual defensive backs? (helgi - Hall of Famer - 3:14 PM)

Currently there is no way to put a DB on a specific receiver. The coverage is based on the zone and the defenders are chosen randomly if they are in the coverage zone.

Yep, that was always my belief.
7/9/2023 10:22 PM
Posted by bagchucker3 on 7/9/2023 10:05:00 PM (view original):
one thing to keep in mind

i mean i always do

is the baseball sim. the results of a game are generated, the PBP is tacked on later

i do not know it to be true but i believe it to be



so my thinking, as much as i enjoy the all new Simcast!

is it's a pig purse

don read too much truth into the play-by-play
That was always my belief also
7/9/2023 10:23 PM
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