The Random Box Score League - Page 2 - Theme League Classifieds

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Posted by Rattlers on 11/20/2023 6:11:00 PM (view original):
I'm in

Here you go, Rattlers. I see some nice prizes in here.

Detroit Tigers vs Boston Americans Box Score: September 23, 1903
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS190309231.shtml

Pittsburgh Pirates vs St. Louis Cardinals Box Score: April 26, 1915
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN191504260.shtml

New York Giants vs Chicago Cubs Box Score: June 11, 1954
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN195406110.shtml

Chicago Cubs vs Cincinnati Reds Box Score: April 27, 1965
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN196504270.shtml

Seattle Mariners vs Baltimore Orioles Box Score: July 10, 1983
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL198307100.shtml

Chicago Cubs vs Atlanta Braves Box Score: April 11, 2004
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ATL/ATL200404110.shtml

Washington Nationals vs St. Louis Cardinals Box Score: April 12, 2021
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN202104120.shtml

11/20/2023 6:40 PM

savoybg

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I made a few changes with my roster, and double checked that everybody was in the box score and that I have at least one player from each of the 14 teams in the 7 box scores. I was able to get rid of Mike Ttresh by instead taking Orval Grove from the 1944 White Sox.

Here are my players now:

1908 NAPS
Glenn Liebhardt

1908 TIGERS
Ed Summers

1944 WHITE SOX
Orval Grove

1944 YANKEES
Snuffy Stirnweiss
Johnny Lindell

1962 RED SOX
Eddie Bressoud

1962 ATHLETICS
Ed Charles

1983 ANGELS
Steve Brown

1983 BLUE JAYS
Lloyd Moseby
Buck Martinez

1993 CUBS
Rick Wilkins
Dwight Smith

1993 Padres
Pedro Martinez (lefty reliever)
Trevor Hoffman

2003 PHILLIES
Jim Thome
Jason Michaels
Vincente Padilla
Turk Wendell
Terry Adams
Tyler Houston

2003 Brewers
Bill Hall
Danny Kolb

2019 Diamondbacks
Ketel Marte
Zack Greinke

2019 PIRATES
Keone Kela

We will be playing in Miller Park, it was the home park for one of my box scores.

12/2/2023 10:38 PM (edited)

savoybg

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Okay guys, I have made it a 12 team league. I figure we'll be able to get started sooner, and if people like it we can expand to more teams next season. I'm gonna site mail the league numbers to the guys who are in already.

11/21/2023 2:00 PM

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savoybg

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Posted by big_dowg on 11/21/2023 2:51:00 PM (view original):
You only first posted this league roughly 48 hours ago.I would preach a little patience and see if we could at least get to 16 if not more.I'm certainly not in that big of a rush.

I'm not very patient.

I wanna start with the smaller league, plus I already set all my stuff with my team. If I switch the size of the league, all that stuff resets. Before I started playing this sim all the leagues I would run would be between 8 and 12 teams, using Diamond Mind. Once I had a 16 team league, but that was the biggest. Nobody ever thought of playing with 24 or more teams. Especially with those leagues being draft leagues and only one version of each player, based on their best 5 consecutive seasons.

I know around here people are used to 24, and there's also 16, but let's stay with 12 and get it started. I like the schedule better too, I assume that you play the 5 teams in your division 18 times and the 6 teams in the other division 12 times, like they did starting in 1969.

11/21/2023 3:07 PM (edited)

Taft

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I'll try it. Thanks.

11/21/2023 4:32 PM

savoybg

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Posted by Taft on 11/21/2023 4:32:00 PM (view original):
I'll try it. Thanks.

Taft, you're in!

Be right back with your 7 box scores.

Chicago Cubs vs Boston Braves Box Score: August 17, 1921
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BSN/BSN192108172.shtml

Philadelphia Phillies vs St. Louis Cardinals Box Score: September 6, 1933
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN193309061.shtml

Chicago Cubs vs Philadelphia Phillies Box Score: June 21, 1962
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/PHI/PHI196206210.shtml

Pittsburgh Pirates vs St. Louis Cardinals Box Score: August 3, 1982
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN198208030.shtml

Minnesota Twins vs Texas Rangers Box Score: September 6, 2001
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TEX/TEX200109060.shtml

Toronto Blue Jays vs New York Yankees Box Score: April 27, 2013
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA201304270.shtml

Toronto Blue Jays vs Boston Red Sox Box Score: April 20, 2022
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS202204200.shtml

11/21/2023 5:21 PM (edited)

gworear

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I was interested until I read 12 teams.

I'll wait until you get a little ... bigger.

11/21/2023 6:00 PM

savoybg

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Posted by gworear on 11/21/2023 6:00:00 PM (view original):
I was interested until I read 12 teams.

I'll wait until you get a little ... bigger.

What do you like better about more teams?

I did not like the 16 team league I just played in. First off, with 4 divisions of just 4 teams each and no wild card there's a very good chance that one of the 4 division winners will not be better than one or two of the second place teams in another division. So you will usually end up with one mediocre or worse division winner. Second, I did not like playing just 4 times against the opposite league, for 32 games. So you end up playing the vast majority of your games (130) against just 7 other teams.

I think 12 is better. Two divisions of 6 teams each so it's unlikely that you'll get a mediocre or worse division winner, although you could get a second place team in one division that's better than the other division winner. But that happened pretty often when the leagues went to 2 divisions of 6 teams each in 1969. Several times in the 70s and 80s in the AL there were 2 or 3 or even 4 teams in the AL East that were all better than the West winner. And then there was 1993, where the 104 win Braves and the 103 win Giants were both great. The Giants went home, and the Braves lost to the 97 win Phillies in the NLCS. The biggest joke was the 1997 Twins having the 5th most wins in the league, trailing 4 teams in the other division, AND having a negative run differential for the season, yet winning the World Series as they got the home field advantage in both the ALCS and the WS, in the days when that rotated back and forth every season rather than going to the team with the best record. I much prefer the 12 team schedule, where you must play 18 times against the other 5 teams in your division, and 12 times against the 6 teams in the other division.

I haven't played in a 30 team league yet, but I don't like the idea of unbalanced divisions, and I hear that the 30 team schedule has some teams only playing 2 games on certain days, which I also don't like.

As for the standard 24 team leagues, with 3 divisions of 4 each, you do get a wild card which helps prevent a great second place team from missing the playoffs, but I don't like that you only play twice each against the 12 teams in the opposite league, and the fact that it's a home and home 2 games is about as unrealistic that you can get. You also only play the teams in your division 2 more times each than you play the other 8 teams in your league, so the division doesn't mean much. I've only been playing the baseball game for like 6 or 8 months, and I've already had 2 second place teams that were better than another division winner in my league, but I missed the playoffs.

I think it's a little nuts to play just 42 of your 162 games in your division. Why have a division then?

I know now that MLB now plays just like 54 games in the division, but that's not as bad when there are 3 wild card teams.

I don't see what's better about having more teams. Enlighten me!

11/21/2023 6:26 PM (edited)

normy17

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I've never played in a 12 team league but willing to try it and see. My perception of the smaller leagues is that you run a risk of more teams being completely out of contention (1 in 6 make the playoffs, vs.1 in 3 in a 24 team league) by the all-star break and then those owners just stop paying attention to their team and the players go on fatigue spirals making games against them unsatisfying.

In Diamond Mind, I imagine you don't have that issue. Your leagues consist of dedicated owners who want to show up and play regardless. Here you can have a good pennant race but the team in the lead has their last six games against owners who long ago gave up on their teams, ruining the suspense. That can happen in large leagues too, but it seems like it happens less often.

11/21/2023 7:33 PM

savoybg

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Posted by normy17 on 11/21/2023 7:33:00 PM (view original):
I've never played in a 12 team league but willing to try it and see. My perception of the smaller leagues is that you run a risk of more teams being completely out of contention (1 in 6 make the playoffs, vs.1 in 3 in a 24 team league) by the all-star break and then those owners just stop paying attention to their team and the players go on fatigue spirals making games against them unsatisfying.

In Diamond Mind, I imagine you don't have that issue. Your leagues consist of dedicated owners who want to show up and play regardless. Here you can have a good pennant race but the team in the lead has their last six games against owners who long ago gave up on their teams, ruining the suspense. That can happen in large leagues too, but it seems like it happens less often.

Yes, there is no long term fatigue in Diamond Mind. Just for the prior 4 days for pitchers and the prior 10 days for catchers. I don't like the fatigue system here at all. I'd rather play with injuries, but you can't do it here because the fatigue system won't let you take a guy with 150 AB and play him for 10 straight games when the regular is on the injured list, which is what happens in real life. And it won't let you insert a starter with 60 innings into the rotation for 5 or 6 starts like what really happens in the major leagues. The fatigue system here pretty much makes you go only for 8 position players who can play almost every day rather than platooning. You can't really platoon because the right batter in the platoon with only like 200 real life plate appearances will get too fatigued if he plays more than 2 straight games. And forget about if you carry 2 catchers and the starter gets hurt. No way this sim will let the backup with 175 plate appearances become the regular catcher for like 10 days.

Short season guys don't exist in the Diamond Mind Leagues I run because I only use their All Time Greatest Players discs, where every player is programmed with a full season's stats based on the average of their 5 best consecutive seasons, adjusted for era. This sim does not adjust for era, which results in most players using deadball pitchers all the time, and live ball hitters. Every league I play in always has one or more teams with 1918 Coveleski, but nobody uses even the best 1930s pitchers. I've never even seen anyone use Lefty Grove.

If any era adjustments are made here, they are not shown in each player's real life stats. Maybe there are era adjustments here, but you don't know what they are.

You do have a point about owners who stop paying attention to their teams. That's another flaw in this sim. In Diamond Mind bad teams could run fine with the owner not doing anything, as there is no long term fatigue. And the way you set up the pitching you can list several guys for each position (start, long relief, setup, close, mop up) etc, and if the top guy is tired it won't bring him in. Here, unless you change his setting every game, it will continue to bring in the fatigued guys anyway.

Not to even mention that they somehow have no rating for OF throwing arms or pitcher's holding on runners here. Strat-O-Matic added OF throwing arm ratings over 50 years ago. What I do like is that you can make game to game changes here rather than only once in a while like in my DMB leagues, but if an owner stops running the team here that does suck.

11/21/2023 9:17 PM (edited)

gworear

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Savoy ... to answer your question simply: more teams = more playoff teams.

I'm still a rookie here (at least comparatively in terms of experience) so I confess, I've never participated in anything but a 24-team league. But the reason I've steered away from the 16 (didn't know there was a 30) is the fact there are only four total playoff teams, compared to 8 in a 24.

In a 12 ... obviously that numbers shrinks even more to two.

I share in your criticisms of the 24-team schedule, especially in relation to the number of games against division foes. (I don't really care about the interleague complaint.) However, if there's one thing I've learned in the WhatIF world, it's the fact there's some real sharks swimming in these waters who out of 100 seasons, would best me (and the vast majority of us) 80-90 times.

I know the names and when i see myself in a division with them, i take solace knowing no matter what, I can still get in to the playoffs as a wild card team.

My goal each season is to make the playoffs and see what happens. And as I see it, my chances of doing that are a lot better (twice as good in fact at 1 in 3 instead of 1 in 6) in a 24-team league compared to a 12.

It's a shame as I really like random leagues and am in a random box score league now with an $87M cap. It's a lot of fun to build a team like that, but I would be interested in comparing the building process with a $100M budget.

11/21/2023 8:52 PM

savoybg

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What if Sports should let the owner of the league say how many teams make the playoffs. Although I judge all of my teams by their run differential and their regular season record. If I can win the playoffs, great, but any short series in baseball is just a crap shoot. I'd rather have a great regular season with 100 plus wins and a +200 or more run differential than to wild card my way into the playoffs at 88-74 and get lucky and win the world series.

I consider the 162 game season as the real test of the team I put together. Anyone can get hot or go cold in a short playoff series.

PS - I just sent in a ticket to What If and asked if it was possible to change the number of playoff teams for this league and add 2 wild cards. Let's see what they say.

11/21/2023 9:13 PM (edited)

savoybg

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Posted by gworear on 11/21/2023 8:52:00 PM (view original):
Savoy ... to answer your question simply: more teams = more playoff teams.

I'm still a rookie here (at least comparatively in terms of experience) so I confess, I've never participated in anything but a 24-team league. But the reason I've steered away from the 16 (didn't know there was a 30) is the fact there are only four total playoff teams, compared to 8 in a 24.

In a 12 ... obviously that numbers shrinks even more to two.

I share in your criticisms of the 24-team schedule, especially in relation to the number of games against division foes. (I don't really care about the interleague complaint.) However, if there's one thing I've learned in the WhatIF world, it's the fact there's some real sharks swimming in these waters who out of 100 seasons, would best me (and the vast majority of us) 80-90 times.

I know the names and when i see myself in a division with them, i take solace knowing no matter what, I can still get in to the playoffs as a wild card team.

My goal each season is to make the playoffs and see what happens. And as I see it, my chances of doing that are a lot better (twice as good in fact at 1 in 3 instead of 1 in 6) in a 24-team league compared to a 12.

It's a shame as I really like random leagues and am in a random box score league now with an $87M cap. It's a lot of fun to build a team like that, but I would be interested in comparing the building process with a $100M budget.

I originally went with $85M here, but as I tried to build my team with the limited options you have with a random box score league, I realized that it's gonna be too tough at $85M, especially with my rules of having to take at least one player from all 14 teams in the box scores. So I stretched it out to $100M so guys will not have such a hard time just making a reasonable roster.

PS - My favorite part of any simulated team in baseball or basketball, is BY FAR putting the team together. Either through a draft, or just picking a roster under whatever the rules of that league are. Comparing 2 guys who are close to each other, weighing the salary of each vs. what they can and can't do on the field.

11/21/2023 9:21 PM (edited)

savoybg

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Rattlers has put his team into the league. I'm gonna verify his roster now.

11/21/2023 9:23 PM

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