Posted by ermocito on 12/5/2023 12:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by redcped on 12/5/2023 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Please remind Lenny to tell me which team I can dagger #2.

"will offer the 37 Phillies to dagger"

lennyistall, you made a pretty good decision letting me draw from the 37 Phils. Had you gone with the Giants or Braves, I might have daggered Melton or Spahn, your two best SP. Had it been the A's, for sure say goodbye to Billy Werber and force you to roster both of your expensive 3B who can't play anywhere else. That said, the Phillies present you with other concerns. For one, they have only 20 players and you have to roster 6 of them. Let's dig deeper.

Pitchers: They have 7 pitchers, every one of them awful, and 4 have over 200 innings of awful and 2 others have 140+ innings of awful. In my attempt to construct a workable roster from your teams, I'd only use the single cheap one as a mopup at most, and even then you're overpaying for that. So, no dagger for pitchers here. You have my blessing to use as many as you like!
Catchers: They have 3, including the one hitter they have under $1M. The problem is he has 99 PA and no other catcher available to you has more than 442 PA, so that makes a very low PA total there if you want to risk that. Otherwise, they have two catchers who could form a platoon but they are your two worst hitting catchers. So, no dagger here.
1st Base: Phils only have Dolph Camilli, a monster slugger at $6.7M. I'd try to roster him, since he's so much better than everyone else you've got and the only one over 485 PA too. Strong dagger candidate.
2nd Base: Phils have two guys here, both with D/D- ratings at 2B. Yikes. You can have them.
3rd Base: This is, as noted in your first daggering, a real problem for you. You've already lost 1 of the 4 players who qualify here. The Phils' Pinky Whitney is pretty good and reasonably priced, and if I dagger him you're forced to roster Eddie Mathews for $2M more. Not sure if that's really a punishment because he's still Eddie Mathews and you might use him anyway. But Whitney is a dagger option because he completely removes any choice for you here.
Shortstop: The Phils' Scharein is the worst hitter and fielder you've got here. You can have him.
Outfield: Fortunately for you, the Phils have a handful of serviceable OF here. None stand out tremendously. They all cost over $2M, so I can't really limit you too much by daggering anyone. And if you're forced to roster a few Phils here, that means spots for studs like Aaron, Ott, Moses, and Johnson aren't available. My guess is you might need to use as many as 3 Phillies out of this group, and I'm happy to see you do it.

So, when I look at all those options and realize you have to use 6 of these guys, I feel like the best choice is to get rid of the one you'd most want to use: Dolph Camilli. He's got the best OPS of any regular available to you. And if you lose him, you'll have to use a 1B platoon where the dominant half has an OPS# that's 300 points lower than Camilli's. I still think there's a very workable roster to be made here, but it won't have Camilli in the middle of the lineup. Good luck in your build!

Oakland Coliseum

Salary $79,969,476


1977 Dodgers (7)

OF Reggie Smith $5,958,677
OF Dusty Baker $4.136,233
1B Ed Goodson $200,020
2B Ted Martinez $849,405
SP Tommy John $5,363,064
SP Don Sutton $6,367,076
P Elias Sosa $2,360,340

1977 Oakland A's (6)

3B Wayne Gross $3,094,260
SS Rob Picciolo $1,376,635
OF Mitchell Paige $4,945,469
P Joe Coleman $2,881,793
P Dave Giusti $1,736,114
P Bob Lacey $3,103,662

1947 Cincinnati Reds (6)

3B Graddy Hatton $4,131,303
SS Eddie Miller $3,957,746
C Ray Mueller $1,519,586
OF Clyde Vollmer $622,021
SP Ewell Blackwell $8,536,452
P Elmer Riddle $200,245

1927 Cincinnati Reds (6)

C Bubba Hargrave $2,987,180
1B Wally Pipp $3,096,462
2B Hughie Critz $2,491,712
OF Bily Zitzmann $1,588,694
SP Dolf Luque $6,237,235
P Carl Mays $2,228,092

Painful salaries at 3B! Took a pitchers park to hopefully keep people close with my average offense and weak bullpen. Look forward to seeing what happens!

Posted by 3dayrotation on 12/5/2023 9:06:00 AM (view original):
jonstephen25

contemplated a couple of your outfielders... then really thought long and hard about mr. spahn. in the end i decided on

Barrett, Red

1947 Boston Braves

because he seems like a better bargain and as such a more useful building block for this league.

good luck.

Good dagger. I was definitely rostering him. He was my best reasonable option at pitcher....

mavioric12 can choose my 2nd dagger from the '47 Cubs

Testing. Can everyone see this post?

Posted by lennyistall on 12/5/2023 7:25:00 PM (view original):
Testing. Can everyone see this post?

I can

Posted by lennyistall on 12/5/2023 7:25:00 PM (view original):
Testing. Can everyone see this post?

who's there? just kidding. yes, we can see it though it took me a while to read your user name right. I kept looking at it as "Lenny, I Stall". Welcome Lenny.

My first received dagger, C Sherm Lollar, did limit my options but I didn't have him on my first attempt at a roster. The second dagger, OF Willard Brown, did mess up my plans a lot, though. Because I only had one other cheap OF backup option, I had to take Sam Bowens from the 67 Orioles there instead. I already had to take 5 Orioles pitchers due to the fact that they were basically all my good ones, plus backup SS Mark Belanger. So I had 6 spots locked up and was originally going to use 2B Davey Johnson as my last Oriole. But the addition of Bowens forced me to try to use $8M+ 2B Nellie Fox instead and figure out where to save $4M in the process. It was either Fox or platooning two lousy Browns, and I decided to overpay for that A-/A+ glove and 756 PA for reasons we might not ever truly understand.

My first instinct in building one of these teams is to see what the best pitching staff I can build looks like. I had 9 available pitchers with ERC# under 3, and I am using 8 of them. There was a big gap above them, from 2.92 to 3.51, so I had to get all the quality innings I could from the top group regardless of how they fit together. In this case, there are 5 Orioles all between $2.5M and $3.6M and from 95 to 134 innings. They'll include a couple top bullpen arms and a couple tandems ultimately, slotting behind White Sox SP Billy Pierce and Dick Donovan in the rotation. Chicago's Gerry Staley is another workhorse reliever in the mix with 111 innings. That's 1,157 good innings however I work them all into the mix. A 10-man staff makes tandems difficult, but I'll see how it plays out. I had to roster 186 really weak innings from Bob Muncrief (.299 OAV, 4.90 ERA), who's just going to have to pitch every 4th game or so and try not to suck too much. My hopes are pretty low for him.

The top of the order will have Fox (.321/.404/.415), 3B Harlond Clift (.296/.399/.529), OF/1B Beau Bell (.329/.377/.492), and OF Jeff Heath (.254/.363/.494). SS Vern Stephens (.283/.357/.415) and part-time 1B Earl Torgeson (.299/.408/.438) are the only other fairly reliable contributors. I'll have a C platoon from the 47 Browns that includes a .150 hitter in Les Moss, and their not-so-thrilling teammate Paul Lehner has to man CF most of the time.

Among those who couldn't find a way onto the roster are OF Frank Robinson (no room for any more O's), OF Minnie Minoso (sacrificed in the Fox maneuver), and CF who can hit in Larry Doby, Paul Blair or Sam West (ditto). It leaves me with a team slash of .274/.359/.414, which doesn't exactly strike a ton of fear. Also, not much speed to be found outside Lehner and a couple bench guys. The defense should be fairly strong, though, especially Fox and Clift in the infield.

Only two of my hitters top 15 HR, so I figure I might as well go with HR-negative Comiskey Park over my other option, Sportsman's Park.

Comiskey Park
Salary $79,955,411

1937 St. Louis Browns (6)
1B Jim Bottomley $445,029
2B Red Barkley $486,022
3B Harlond Clift $6,817,226
OF Beau Bell $5,371,508
OF Ethan Allen $2,479,228
P Tommy Thomas $299,344

1947 St. Louis Browns (6)
C Jake Early $2,101,659
C Les Moss $1,502,727
SS Vern Stephens $4,824,664
OF Jeff Heath $4,425,302
OF Paul Lehner $3,483,690
P Bob Muncrief $3,076,139

1957 Chicago White Sox (6)
1B Earl Torgeson $2,295,436
2B Nellie Fox $8,338,910
3B Fred Hatfield $405,906
P Billy Pierce $7,593,299
P Dick Donovan $6,065,663
P Gerry Staley $2,791,248

1967 Baltimore Orioles (7)
P Eddie Watt $3,594,239
P Moe Drabowsky $3,138,413
P Jim Hardin $3,310,962
P Gene Brabender $2,543,335
P Pete Richert $3,339,343
SS Mark Belanger $655,384
OF Sam Bowens $570,735

I have some updates from mavioric12:

Dagger 1 vs BeAllEndAll hits 1957 Dee Fondy & Wrigley Field.

jbar8888 dagger 2 needs to hit the 1927 Red Sox.

I think only the AL East has daggers remaining. Every other division can finalize rosters.
I've sent messages this evening to those who need to act in the AL East.
I will work on confirming a couple of rosters tomorrow morning from my office.
We are getting there!!

The final dagger to kentol from mavioric12 is Johnny Schmitz.
You can never have too many great ERA pitchers........... at least not after the dagger round.

Well, midnight, who gave you this garbage team??? The 1977 Toronto Blue Jays have nothing of value past Bob Bailor and he was already stabbed, bagged, and tossed off this trainwreck of a team. How do you hurt a team by removing a weak link? Maybe we can mess with your salary or force you to waste a roster spot on a sub-par player from the Yankees or Tigers, essentially wasting a roster spot. There’s gotta be an option…

Starting with pitching, the Blue Jays best is Pete Vukovich and 149 IP with a 3.80 ERC#. I would probably roster him as my one Blue Jay pitcher. And he can be replaced by LH Mike Willis to save a few bucks. Neither would be a key pitcher so hitting either would not be very impactful.
Moving on to hitters, the Blue Jays have strong armed Alan Ashby and he could be paired with your choice of Indian C’s to platoon with him. But you also have Freehan and Munson. I would think you’re planning on rostering one of them so hitting Ashby may not be the best option if you’re not planning on using him.

At 1B I would roster the Indians’ Vic Wertz and back him up with Eddie Mathews. Hitting the very unimpressive Doug Ault would be pointless. If only I could force you to draft him…

At 2B you have Willie Randolph of the Yankees and you can match him up with either Strickland or Lumpe. Or you could go with Bobby Avila from the Indians. He’s not a bad option for $3.2M and you can grab any of the 3 cheap back-up options you have. Hitting the platoon 2B form Toronto would be a waste.

Now 3B is interesting. The Blue Jays have Roy Howell, a .314/.386/.439 #slash with C+/C- defense and a $3M salary. He could platoon nicely with Larry Raines. Your other options at 3B are Graig Nettles whose $5.7M salary is more for his A/B+ range than it is for his 37 HR’s. I suppose you could use Don Wert but that would be a waste of a Tiger spot. There’s also a Rader/Raines platoon but they’re both RH hitters who offer only a little defense for cheap. Howell is a possibility but let’s keep looking.

Looking at SS I see you only have 4 options for your 2 roster spots. The Blue Jays offer Hector Torrez who is your cheapest option at $1.4M. I’m guessing you’ll go with Carrasquel at SS and although Torres would be an adequate back-up, Oyler is only $129K more. He is a Tiger though and you would waste a spot there. Another possibility.

Finally we get to the OF’s. You have so many options here. Without the Blue Jays you have Jackson, Rivers, White, Colavito, Maris, Woodling, Horton, Kaline, and Northrup. The Blue Jays throw in Fairly and Woods. Neither are standouts and can be easily replaced by any of the others. I can do no damage here.

Well, like I asked in the beginning. How do you hurt a team by removing a weak link. As we’ve just reviewed, this team truly has no one of value left. The best we can do is stab Roy Howell and nudge you towards a decision between $5M+ players.

Good luck!

Memorial Stadium

Total Salary = $79,981,857

1957 Baltimore Orioles (7)

1b Bob Boyd - $3,899,717
3b Billy Goodman - $1.937,364
P Connie Johnson - $7,059, 601
P Billy Loes - $4,371,314
P Billy O'Dell - $4,455,473
P Ken Lehman - $2,303,920
P Jerry Walker - $552,236

1977 NY Mets (6)

C John Stearns - $4,121,618
1b John Milner - $2,368,838
3b Lenny Randle - $5,347,361
OF Dave Henderson - $2,952,053
P Jerry Koosman - $6,008,106
P Tom Seaver - $2,747,304

1977 California Angels (6)

C Andy Etchebarren - $948,457
SS Mario Guerrero - $1,170,038
SS Bobby Grich - $1,454,515
P Frank Tanana - $7,067,137
P Dave LaRoche - $2,028,051
P Dyar Miller - $2,131,575

1947 Brooklyn Dodgers (6)

2b Eddie Stanky - $5,163,113
2b Eddie Miksis - $548,889
OF Dixie Walker - $4,347,659
OF Pete Reiser - $4,061,726
OF Gene Hermanski - $1,402,352
OF Arky Vaughan - $1,532,850

Too Much SS
1957 Yankees
Bauer, Hank	OF	$3,138,577
Berra, Yogi	C	$4,523,299
Collins, Joe	1B	$575,495
Terry, Ralph	P	$3,514,438
Maglie, Sal	P	$3,045,645
Byrne, Tommy	P	$1,620,765
1967 Reds
Rose, Pete	OF	$4,741,474
Simpson, Dick	OF	$260,964
Perez, Tony	3B	$4,144,465
Pavletich, Don	C	$1,558,082
Pappas, Milt	P	$4,704,986
Ellis, Sammy	P	$2,667,446
1977 Twins
Bostock, Lyman	OF	$6,926,685
Terrell, Jerry	3B	$834,619
Carew, Rod	1B	$10,873,355
Wilfong, Rob	2B	$813,690
Smalley, Roy	SS	$3,548,414
Schueler, Ron	P	$2,509,872
1977 Padres
Hendrick, George	OF	$6,061,077
Almon, Bill	SS	$4,239,948
Sutherland, Gary	2B	$335,591
Freisleben, Dave	P	$2,209,501
Owchinko, Bob	P	$2,774,479
Shirley, Bob	P	$4,185,986
Total:		$79,808,853

kentol can dagger one of my pitchers from the 67 White Sox