Playing Out of Position Topic

If you are interested, I’m now recruiting for a No Catchers League, in the classified. We can see if A/A Inf & Of can be catchers.
1/20/2024 10:15 PM
Speaking of which if I were to take as an for instance

1892 Frank Shugart ...

Pittsburgh Pirates

Position: SS
Salary: $3,705,904

Who famously played 2 Games at Catcher D-/A/A (.876/6.69) with Performance History

SimLeague Fielding Statistics
Type Pos G GS Inn PO A E DP + - Fld% RF SBA CS CS Pct.
Average C 153 152 1323 514 65 16 3 0 0 0.973 3.94 147 46 0.32

Would it be wise to Draft another Year as Catcher where he did not play as such ? ... His 1892 SS Grade D/A (.886/5.59)
1/21/2024 11:10 AM
Answered in classifieds
1/21/2024 1:03 PM
Posted by fatguyrd on 1/20/2024 10:15:00 PM (view original):
If you are interested, I’m now recruiting for a No Catchers League, in the classified. We can see if A/A Inf & Of can be catchers.
Over an entire season you will get over 100 PB
CS % of 10% if that and lots of errors.
1/21/2024 1:24 PM
We are 37 games into this league as of this morning...time permitting, I will post some data later today.
2/13/2024 11:53 AM
As background, here are the details of the league.

The most critical things to know are:
-- Every team has 1965 Jackie Moore (C+/A/D). He is the only player on the roster who is allowed to have ANY rating at catcher.
-- Since Moore has only 61 RL PA, every team is playing the vast majority of the time with a catcher who is not rated at that position.
-- Some owners are using Moore for spot starts; other are using him primarily as a defensive replacement; others appear to be using him in different ways at different times.
-- Every team must roster some version of Rickey Henderson.
-- Most teams, unsurprisingly, have built offenses heavily oriented around stolen bases.

Through 37 games, the various Jackie Moores have combined to combined to play 530 2/3 innings. His total defensive stats are:
Team Player Year Original Position Grades G INN PO A E PB CS SBA CS% FLD% Error % PB/9 SBA/9
Like Eating Soup Moore, Jackie 1965 21 51.3 26 0 0 0 0 6 0.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 1.05
Tools of Incompetence Moore, Jackie 1965 10 42.0 26 0 0 0 0 5 0.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 1.07
Whata Backstop Moore, Jackie 1965 4 36.0 29 5 0 0 3 11 27.27% 1.000 0.000 0.00 2.75
Moore is Less Moore, Jackie 1965 7 35.0 37 1 0 2 0 5 0.00% 1.000 0.000 0.51 1.29
Scoot Yer Boot Moore, Jackie 1965 8 34.0 31 3 0 0 3 14 21.43% 1.000 0.000 0.00 3.71
Ring That Bell Moore, Jackie 1965 4 32.0 25 1 1 0 1 10 10.00% 0.963 0.037 0.00 2.81
Did Anyone Catch Moore, Jackie 1965 15 29.7 27 0 0 0 0 7 0.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 2.12
Slow Pitch Softball Moore, Jackie 1965 12 28.0 12 1 0 1 1 6 16.67% 1.000 0.000 0.32 1.93
Who is Behind Moore, Jackie 1965 3 28.0 18 0 0 0 0 2 0.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 0.64
Running Roughshod Moore, Jackie 1965 12 27.0 14 1 0 0 1 2 50.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 0.67
We Gonna Suck Moore, Jackie 1965 11 27.0 20 0 0 0 0 0 #DIV/0! 1.000 0.000 0.00 0.00
Where's Uecker Moore, Jackie 1965 13 25.0 13 1 0 0 1 1 100.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 0.36
Dan Gamble Moore, Jackie 1965 13 24.0 20 0 1 0 0 1 0.00% 0.952 0.048 0.00 0.38
No Catchers Moore, Jackie 1965 13 22.0 12 0 0 0 0 3 0.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 1.23
Not Johnny Bench Moore, Jackie 1965 12 21.0 17 0 0 0 0 1 0.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 0.43
Baby We Were Born Moore, Jackie 1965 10 20.0 16 0 0 0 0 0 #DIV/0! 1.000 0.000 0.00 0.00
There Goes Swifty Moore, Jackie 1965 5 17.7 13 2 0 0 1 5 20.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 2.55
Battery Not Included Moore, Jackie 1965 9 17.0 6 1 0 0 0 0 #DIV/0! 1.000 0.000 0.00 0.00
Today Can Catch Moore, Jackie 1965 5 9.0 6 0 0 0 0 1 0.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 1.00
Ninja Moore, Jackie 1965 4 4.0 3 0 0 0 0 0 #DIV/0! 1.000 0.000 0.00 0.00
No Catcher Vizquel Moore, Jackie 1965 1 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0.00 0.00
Moore Totals 192 530.7 371 16 2 3 11 80 13.75% 0.995 0.005 0.05 1.36


Moore's totals should probably be considered a control group:
1.4 stolen base attempts per 9 innings
13.75% CS rate
0.05 passed balls per 9 innings
0.995 Fielding Percentage; I find it more useful to look at the complement of this: 0.005 error percentage (5 errors per 1,000 chances)
2/13/2024 8:00 PM (edited)
In the posts that follow, I am not making any adjustments for fatigue. Fatigue no doubt results in deteriorated performance, but I have made no effort to track fatigue rate for each player for each game.

Here are the aggregate stats, through 37 games, for everyone else who has played even 1 inning at catcher:
G INN PO A E PB CS SBA CS% FLD% Error % PB/9 SBA/9
880 7353.7 5224 142 55 1564 31 3906 0.79% 0.990 0.010 1.91 4.78


Compared to Moore, the guys unrated at catcher:
-- Have double the error rate (0.010 compared to 0.005). Not nearly as bad as I would have expected.
-- Have 37.6 times more passed balls (1.91 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.5 times more stolen base attempts (4.78 per 9 innings, compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 94% worse CS percentage (0.79% CS compared to 13.75% CS)

2/13/2024 2:04 PM
One intrepid owner decided to play a DH at Catcher. 1995 Paul Molitor has no defensive ratings at any position.
Team Player Year Original Position Grades G INN PO A E PB CS SBA CS% FLD% Error % PB/9 SBA/9
No Catchers Molitor, Paul 1995 DH N/A 37 310.0 245 7 9 80 3 194 1.55% 0.966 0.034 2.32 5.63

Compared to Moore, Molitor:
-- Has an error rate 6.7 times higher (0.034 compared to 0.005)
-- Has 45.6 times the number of passed balls (2.32 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Has 4.2 times the number of SBA (5.63 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Has an 89% worse CS percentage (1.55% CS compared to 13.75% CS). In this one category, Molitor is better than the average of all other catchers. I expect this is small sample size. He's thrown out 3 guys in total in 194 attempts...I'll be shocked if by the end of the season he is not worse than the others.
2/13/2024 2:10 PM
Eleven outfielders have seen time at catcher:
Team Player Year Original Position Grades G INN PO A E PB CS SBA CS% FLD% Error % PB/9 SBA/9
Dan Gamble Brock, Lou 1974 OF D+/D+ 37 302.0 185 3 4 62 0 149 0.00% 0.979 0.021 1.85 4.44
Did Anyone Catch Raines, Tim 1984 OF B+/A 36 291.0 193 9 5 58 2 175 1.14% 0.976 0.024 1.79 5.41
Who is Behind Henderson, Rickey 1982 OF C/A 21 189.0 107 0 1 37 0 78 0.00% 0.991 0.009 1.76 3.71
Tools of Incompetence McBride, Bake 1977 OF A-/D+ 18 156.0 91 1 1 34 1 77 1.30% 0.989 0.011 1.96 4.44
Tools of Incompetence Lopes, Davey 1985 OF A/D- 16 134.3 80 2 4 26 0 69 0.00% 0.953 0.047 1.74 4.62
Whata Backstop Coleman, Vince 1985 OF C+/C+ 10 43.7 42 0 0 10 0 9 0.00% 1.000 0.000 2.06 1.85
Whata Backstop Miller, Eddie 1979 OF B+/A+ 4 41.7 27 0 0 10 0 23 0.00% 1.000 0.000 2.16 4.97
Who is Behind Bannister, Alan 1975 OF C/A+ 3 27.0 13 0 0 7 0 13 0.00% 1.000 0.000 2.33 4.33
Who is Behind Venable, Max 1989 OF C/D- 2 17.0 17 0 0 2 0 4 0.00% 1.000 0.000 1.06 2.12
Ring That Bell Maddox, Elliott 1975 OF A+/A+ 3 14.0 8 0 1 1 0 6 0.00% 0.889 0.111 0.64 3.86
Who is Behind Allen, Chad 2000 OF C/D 1 9.0 8 0 1 1 0 1 0.00% 0.889 0.111 1.00 1.00
Total 1224.7 771 15 17 248 3 604 0.50% 0.979 0.021 1.82 4.44
Non-Moore Totals 880 7353.7 5224 142 55 1564 31 3906 0.79% 0.990 0.010 1.91 4.78
Moore Totals 192 530.7 371 16 2 3 11 80 13.75% 0.995 0.005 0.05 1.36
2/13/2024 2:15 PM
Contrarian23 Thanks very much for doing this.
Buddy Bell my main catcher has far too many games with 5;6 passed balls.. I’m sure he is way above the average.
2/13/2024 2:15 PM
Compared to Moore, the OFs:
-- Have an error rate 4.1 times higher (0.021 compared to 0.005)
-- Have 35.8 times the number of passed balls (1.82 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.3 times the number of SBA (4.44 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 96% worse CS percentage (0.50% CS compared to 13.75% CS).

Interestingly, there is little to choose from between Brock and Raines, despite very different fielding ratings in the OF. I assume that whatever adjustment WIS makes, the deterioration for OF is so great that the initial differences between them are more or less washed out.
2/13/2024 2:19 PM
Only three 1B have seen any time at catcher. Small sample size. Take these numbers with a grain of salt:
Team Player Year Original Position Grades G INN PO A E PB CS SBA CS% FLD% Error % PB/9 SBA/9
Poughkeepsie Loretta, Mark 1998 1B B-/D- 7 62.0 51 2 0 8 0 25 0.00% 1.000 0.000 1.16 3.63
No Catcher Vizquel Evans, Dwight 1987 1B D/D- 5 41.0 28 1 0 18 0 24 0.00% 1.000 0.000 3.95 5.27
Did Anyone Catch Yastrzemski, Carl 1970 1B C/D- 1 9.0 7 0 0 3 0 10 0.00% 1.000 0.000 3.00 10.00
Total 112.0 86.0 3.0 0.0 29.0 0.0 59.0 0.00% 1.000 0.000 2.33 4.74
Non-Moore Totals 880 7353.7 5224 142 55 1564 31 3906 0.79% 0.990 0.010 1.91 4.78
Moore Totals 192 530.7 371 16 2 3 11 80 13.75% 0.995 0.005 0.05 1.36


Compared to Moore, the 1Bs:
-- Have made no errors
-- Have 45.8 times the number of passed balls (2.33 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.5 times the number of SBA (4.74 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 100% worse CS percentage (0.00% CS compared to 13.75% CS).

Even in a small sample size, Evans is really terrible...5.3 SB attempts per 9, 0 CS, and 4 PB per 9 innings. Ouch.
2/13/2024 2:23 PM
Five 3B have seen playing time at catcher, 4 of whom are more or less playing there regularly, including the aforementioned Buddy Bell:
Team Player Year Original Position Grades G INN PO A E PB CS SBA CS% FLD% Error % PB/9 SBA/9
Today Can Catch Buechele, Steve 1991 3B A+/B 37 320.0 248 5 1 63 1 173 0.58% 0.996 0.004 1.77 4.87
Slow Pitch Softball Johnson, Howard 1989 3B D/D- 37 312.0 143 4 2 65 1 166 0.60% 0.987 0.013 1.88 4.79
Not Johnny Bench Cabell, Enos 1978 3B B/C- 37 305.0 209 7 1 59 2 155 1.29% 0.995 0.005 1.74 4.57
Ring That Bell Bell, Buddy 1980 3B A/A 26 212.7 159 8 1 56 2 128 1.56% 0.994 0.006 2.37 5.42
Ring That Bell Ripken Jr., Cal 1999 3B D+/D 5 37.7 22 0 0 11 0 20 0.00% 1.000 0.000 2.63 4.78
Total 1187.3 781 24 5 254 6 642 0.93% 0.994 0.006 1.93 4.87
Non-Moore Totals 880 7353.7 5224 142 55 1564 31 3906 0.79% 0.990 0.010 1.91 4.78
Moore Totals 192 530.7 371 16 2 3 11 80 13.75% 0.995 0.005 0.05 1.36

Compared to Moore, the 3Bs:
-- Have an error rate 1.2 times higher (0.006 compared to 0.005)
-- Have 37.8 times the number of passed balls (1.93 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.6 times the number of SBA (4.87 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 93% worse CS percentage (0.93% CS compared to 13.75% CS).
2/13/2024 2:29 PM
Eight 2B have seen time at catcher, six of whom are playing there at least part-time:
Team Player Year Original Position Grades G INN PO A E PB CS SBA CS% FLD% Error % PB/9 SBA/9
Ninja Biggio, Craig 1995 2B B+/C 37 321.7 198 6 2 65 2 195 1.03% 0.990 0.010 1.82 5.46
Battery Not Included Biggio, Craig 1993 2B B/C+ 37 312.0 193 3 1 49 1 144 0.69% 0.995 0.005 1.41 4.15
There Goes Swifty Biggio, Craig 1997 2B B-/A+ 36 309.0 209 5 0 62 3 166 1.81% 1.000 0.000 1.81 4.83
We Gonna Suck Biggio, Craig 1994 2B A-/C 37 295.3 238 6 0 63 0 179 0.00% 1.000 0.000 1.92 5.45
Moore is Less Morgan, Joe 1977 2B A/D 30 252.0 228 6 1 61 0 157 0.00% 0.996 0.004 2.18 5.61
Running Roughshod Herr, Tom 1991 2B A+/D- 19 159.0 97 1 1 33 1 94 1.06% 0.990 0.010 1.87 5.32
Who is Behind Grebeck, Craig 1999 2B C/D- 4 35.0 19 1 1 11 0 12 0.00% 0.952 0.048 2.83 3.09
Moore is Less Biggio, Craig 1994 2B A-/C 4 34.0 28 0 1 10 0 26 0.00% 0.966 0.034 2.65 6.88
Total 1718.0 1210 28 7 354 7 973 0.72% 0.994 0.006 1.85 5.10
Non-Moore Totals 880 7353.7 5224 142 55 1564 31 3906 0.79% 0.990 0.010 1.91 4.78
Moore Totals 192 530.7 371 16 2 3 11 80 13.75% 0.995 0.005 0.05 1.36

Compared to Moore, the 2Bs:
-- Have an error rate 1.1 times higher (0.006 compared to 0.005)
-- Have 36.4 times the number of passed balls (1.85 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.8 times the number of SBA (5.10 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 95% worse CS percentage (0.72% CS compared to 13.75% CS).

No idea why so many owners went with Biggio, unless they think the sim somehow "knows" that Biggio did catch at some point in his career and adjusts him favorably.
2/13/2024 8:04 PM (edited)
Sixteen SS have seen time at catcher, including 11 who are playing there at least semi-regularly:
Team Player Year Original Position Grades G INN PO A E PB CS SBA CS% FLD% Error % PB/9 SBA/9
PB and SB Smith, Ozzie 1987 SS A+/B 37 323.0 213 9 2 61 3 190 1.58% 0.991 0.009 1.70 5.29
Baby We Were Born Vizquel, Omar 1998 SS A+/B- 37 317.3 257 4 2 65 0 136 0.00% 0.992 0.008 1.84 3.86
Scoot Yer Boot Campaneris, Bert 1968 SS C/B+ 35 306.3 224 8 5 74 3 188 1.60% 0.979 0.021 2.17 5.52
Where's Uecker Aparicio, Luis 1969 SS A-/A- 37 305.0 202 7 5 63 1 142 0.70% 0.977 0.023 1.86 4.19
No Catcher Vizquel Vizquel, Omar 2000 SS A+/D 32 283.3 189 4 1 65 0 148 0.00% 0.995 0.005 2.06 4.70
Like Eating Soup Smith, Ozzie 1985 SS A/A+ 37 277.0 130 7 0 47 0 145 0.00% 1.000 0.000 1.53 4.71
Poughkeepsie Trammell, Alan 1993 SS A+/D 24 207.0 225 5 0 59 1 107 0.93% 1.000 0.000 2.57 4.65
It’s a Blurr Vizquel, Omar 1999 SS A-/C- 22 191.3 193 9 1 41 2 89 2.25% 0.995 0.005 1.93 4.19
Whata Backstop Smith, Ozzie 1984 SS A/A+ 22 181.0 164 0 1 35 0 71 0.00% 0.994 0.006 1.74 3.53
Running Roughshod Almon, Bill 1985 SS A+/D- 18 144.0 105 4 0 38 2 102 1.96% 1.000 0.000 2.38 6.38
It’s a Blurr Wills, Maury 1965 SS B/A+ 14 124.3 104 4 0 18 0 52 0.00% 1.000 0.000 1.30 3.76
Poughkeepsie Bowa, Larry 1972 SS A+/D+ 6 51.0 48 3 0 10 0 25 0.00% 1.000 0.000 1.76 4.41
Whata Backstop Kubek, Tony 1962 SS C/A+ 4 34.0 31 1 0 8 0 13 0.00% 1.000 0.000 2.12 3.44
Who is Behind Uribe, Jose 1993 SS D+/D- 3 26.0 20 0 0 6 0 11 0.00% 1.000 0.000 2.08 3.81
Ring That Bell Yount, Robin 1981 SS A/A+ 4 22.0 16 0 0 9 0 13 0.00% 1.000 0.000 3.68 5.32
It’s a Blurr Alomar, Sandy 1965 SS B-/D- 1 9.0 10 0 0 0 0 2 0.00% 1.000 0.000 0.00 2.00
Total 2801.7 2131 65 17 599 12 1434 0.84% 0.992 0.008 1.92 4.61
Non-Moore Totals 880 7353.7 5224 142 55 1564 31 3906 0.79% 0.990 0.010 1.91 4.78
Moore Totals 192 530.7 371 16 2 3 11 80 13.75% 0.995 0.005 0.05 1.36


Compared to Moore, the SSs:
-- Have an error rate 1.5 times higher (0.008 compared to 0.005)
-- Have 37.8 times the number of passed balls (1.92 per 9 innings compared to 0.05 per 9 innings)
-- Have 3.4 times the number of SBA (4.61 per 9 innings compared to 1.36 per 9 innings)
-- Have a 94% worse CS percentage (0.84% CS compared to 13.75% CS).
2/13/2024 8:05 PM (edited)
◂ Prev 1...7|8|9|10 Next ▸
Playing Out of Position Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.